As it stands so far

[year of the roo]

Pick 9? Pfft.

Freo have pick 3.

True. Fremantle haven't traded like Fremantle in a while...

 

[bellzy]

True. Fremantle haven't traded like Fremantle in a while...

We could probably convince them Gibbo's half Korean as well.

Sweeten the deal a touch.

 

[Kimbo]

Lake ready to accept Dogs' $1.8m deal

Caroline Wilson | September 14, 2009



THE Western Bulldogs will go into Friday night's preliminary final virtually assured of having secured the services of their star full-back Brian Lake until the end of 2013.


...both parties are comfortable with the club's revised contract offer estimated at $1.8 million over the next four years.


''We are quietly confident Brian is staying,'' Bulldogs football boss James Fantasia said last night.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/lake-ready-to-accept-18m-deal/2009/09/13/1252780223197.html

Not the same kind of backman, but if Lake is unavailable I'm assuming this can only help Gibson's trade value...

 

[KennyHunter9]

We took Grigg as pick 18-20. He's had two years, played a reasonable amount of senior footy. Usually in a defensive midfield role, also in the backline. He's got a nice left foot. He can seem a little casual and the rumour is that Ratts dropped him back to the VFL for a month because of his work rate. He's got plenty of upside: good skills, reads the play well and good height for a mid. Could still become an A Grader but will most likely end up a B grader. I can see why a club would see him as attractive, especially if they felt they could give him more midfield time and allow him to be a bit more creative. He's probably not going to get that chance with Judd, Murph, Gibbs, Walker and Simpson.

Our first pick plus Grigg (an early second with two years development) is probably over the odds for Gibbo, a 2nd and 3rd rounder in what is meant to be a shallow draft. Maybe we think we can prize someone else with a couple of second rounders.

Our defence looked weak toward the end of the year, but with a fit Waite, Jamison and Austin back to join Bower, Armfield and Thornton, we would seem to have enough 190-193cm player defenders.

In any event, if we can achieve some mutually agreeable outcome while jeffing clarko and the pelican it will be win-win-win.

 

[r004life]

Not bad kennyhunter9, good review, nice to see that you dont just come out and try and sell him as great young player.

Not sure about his disposal though, and he has just had some ankle surgery. Still would much rather deal with carlton than the filthy hawks, also appreciate carltons reasonable deal (actually offering their first round pick).

 

[KennyHunter9]

Not bad kennyhunter9, good review, nice to see that you dont just come out and try and sell him as great young player.

Not sure about his disposal though, and he has just had some ankle surgery. Still would much rather deal with carlton than the filthy hawks, also appreciate carltons reasonable deal (actually offering their first round pick).

The ankle surgery is apparently just a standard end of season clean out.

Don't get me wrong though: I think Grigg a good young player with plenty of upside - and that Grigg plus a first rounder is over the odds (for Gibbo, a 2nd and 3rd). I don't necessarily know what is right though because that would obviously depend on whether it was Grigg involved or another - and then it would depend on what other picks were traded or swapped.

The challenge I see with Carlton and the Roos getting a deal done is that our strengths and weaknesses are similar: we both need another key forward, we both need more inside mids (Grigg has this potential), we have plenty of young backs who will develop well and we have plenty of young ruckmen.

The other thing is if we can help you "up" Gibson's trade value given that the Pelican has been all over this, it would be a good outcome. Very happy to send him to the Hawks for $1m over three years and Pick 25 + Dowler to you.

 

[Roosurgence]

Nice post Kenny.

How about this as a fair trading proposal?

North: Pick 11 + Grigg
Carlton: Gibson + Harris + Pick 36

I also suggested this one which doesn't involve Grigg:

North: Pick 11 + Pick 27
Carlton: Gibson + Harris + Pick 21

You get a quality defender to release Waite up forward and Harris as your in and under player. We get am early crack at some young talent and lose 6 spots in the second round. Could be win-win?

 

[KennyHunter9]

Nice post Kenny.

How about this as a fair trading proposal?

North: Pick 11 + Grigg
Carlton: Gibson + Harris + Pick 36

I also suggested this one which doesn't involve Grigg:

North: Pick 11 + Pick 27
Carlton: Gibson + Harris + Pick 21

You get a quality defender to release Waite up forward and Harris as your in and under player. We get am early crack at some young talent and lose 6 spots in the second round. Could be win-win?

Carlton should not let go of pick 11 for Gibson. I suspect we will keep it. Our recent pattern under Ratten and Hughes has been to keep our first pick and then be open to trading and swapping seconds, thirds and fourths. If we let go of pick 11 it will be to get someone of the Boak / Burgoyne ilk.

So, our second pick is 27. I think Gibson is worth around pick 20. So perhaps it would be picks 27 + 43 (second and third) and you give us your fourth rounder (52?). Still not sure about that.

 

[Roosurgence]

Carlton should not let go of pick 11 for Gibson. I suspect we will keep it. Our recent pattern under Ratten and Hughes has been to keep our first pick and then be open to trading and swapping seconds, thirds and fourths. If we let go of pick 11 it will be to get someone of the Boak / Burgoyne ilk.

So, our second pick is 27. I think Gibson is worth around pick 20. So perhaps it would be picks 27 + 43 (second and third) and you give us your fourth rounder (52?). Still not sure about that.

This could be a year that Carlton is prepared to let that first pick go, as they have stocked up on young talent. Under my scenario you get Gibson to allow Waite to go forward and Harris as an in an under option (especially if Hadley returns to Brisbane) and move up 5 spots in the second round. I think it all depends on who Carlton think will be available at Pick 11?

I can't see a Boak deal getting done and you will need 2 first rounders or Pick 11 and a very good player to get Burgoyne. I can't see why Carlton would chase another midfielder anyway? Under my proposal you get Harris as the steak knives, which could be handy inclusion for a bit of grunt.

 

[KennyHunter9]

This could be a year that Carlton is prepared to let that first pick go, as they have stocked up on young talent. Under my scenario you get Gibson to allow Waite to go forward and Harris as an in an under option (especially if Hadley returns to Brisbane) and move up 5 spots in the second round. I think it all depends on who Carlton think will be available at Pick 11?

I can't see a Boak deal getting done and you will need 2 first rounders or Pick 11 and a very good player to get Burgoyne. I can't see why Carlton would chase another midfielder anyway? Under my proposal you get Harris as the steak knives, which could be handy inclusion for a bit of grunt.

Jacobs + Pick 11 should unlock Boak or Burgoyne. The last WCE premiership explains why we'd chase another gun mid.

Mmmm, Harris ... I think you blew his cover with the steak knives call.

There is of course a good chance that Gibson will stay with NM. After all, Hawthorn did convince both ROK and Thornton to announce their intentions to leave their respective clubs before failing comprehensively to get a deal done. The Pelican has form.

 

[Roosurgence]

Jacobs + Pick 11 should unlock Boak or Burgoyne. The last WCE premiership explains why we'd chase another gun mid.

Mmmm, Harris ... I think you blew his cover with the steak knives call.

There is of course a good chance that Gibson will stay with NM. After all, Hawthorn did convince both ROK and Thornton to announce their intentions to leave their respective clubs before failing comprehensively to get a deal done. The Pelican has form.

Wishful thinking Kenny, you will need a lot more than that to get either of them. Boak and Burgoyne are guns and other clubs would be offerring a lot more than that.

As for my Harris Steak Knives comment, all it meant was that you could do without them, but its an added bonus to get them. He could actually be of value to Carlton and may flourish in a new environment. It was only a couple of years back that he was one of the best extractors going around. I'm not a Harris fan, but you would be getting a capable player that may turn it around?

 

[isthisavailable]

I think Gibson is worth around pick 20. So perhaps it would be picks 27 + 43 (second and third) and you give us your fourth rounder (52?). Still not sure about that.

One of the more reasonable suggestions I have heard so far.

 

[Zvim]

We took Grigg as pick 18-20. He's had two years, played a reasonable amount of senior footy. Usually in a defensive midfield role, also in the backline. He's got a nice left foot. He can seem a little casual and the rumour is that Ratts dropped him back to the VFL for a month because of his work rate. He's got plenty of upside: good skills, reads the play well and good height for a mid. Could still become an A Grader but will most likely end up a B grader. I can see why a club would see him as attractive, especially if they felt they could give him more midfield time and allow him to be a bit more creative. He's probably not going to get that chance with Judd, Murph, Gibbs, Walker and Simpson.

Our first pick plus Grigg (an early second with two years development) is probably over the odds for Gibbo, a 2nd and 3rd rounder in what is meant to be a shallow draft. Maybe we think we can prize someone else with a couple of second rounders.

Our defence looked weak toward the end of the year, but with a fit Waite, Jamison and Austin back to join Bower, Armfield and Thornton, we would seem to have enough 190-193cm player defenders.

In any event, if we can achieve some mutually agreeable outcome while jeffing clarko and the pelican it will be win-win-win.

I would much rather he end up at Carlton than Hawthorn.

 

[Zvim]

Carlton should not let go of pick 11 for Gibson. I suspect we will keep it. Our recent pattern under Ratten and Hughes has been to keep our first pick and then be open to trading and swapping seconds, thirds and fourths. If we let go of pick 11 it will be to get someone of the Boak / Burgoyne ilk.

So, our second pick is 27. I think Gibson is worth around pick 20. So perhaps it would be picks 27 + 43 (second and third) and you give us your fourth rounder (52?). Still not sure about that.

Thing is, we don't know Gibbo's real value because we can't go based on draft +development because he was a rookie.

His value will be largely dependent on which clubs show interest. When two or more clubs show real interest in one player, you tend to get over market value, if you don't then you are fortunate if you get market value.

My main problem is I am looking at the list of juniors and trying to just formulate a list that goes half way through the second round and am putting guys in who make Sam Power look like Garry Ablett. So I am not really sure we want/need ANY of these kids. Unless we plan to recruit some VFL players or elevate all of our rookies, I just don't see who we plan to stick on the list, most likely they wont be around in 2 years.

Gibson is just a far better player than that. The over-emphasis on picks needs to be balanced with the talent in the pool. I'd much rather swap him for a surplus midfielder that I know isn't a complete spud.

 

[__aria__]

Zvim you seem to post an awful lot about this weak draft.

Can you please list some of these juniors half way thru your 2nd round that make Sam Power look like Gary Ablett?

I am very interested to hear more about this from you.

Thx dude.

 

[Z_K]

My main problem is I am looking at the list of juniors and trying to just formulate a list that goes half way through the second round and am putting guys in who make Sam Power look like Garry Ablett. So I am not really sure we want/need ANY of these kids.

Sounds like you watch heaps of underage footy, so it will be interesting to see this list you have put together.

 

[CrazyQ]

I'm guessing he watches **** all underage footy.

 

[coryne]

Unfortunately for North I doubt that you will get much better than a 2nd rd pick + sweetener for Gibson, esp since Burgoyne has been tipped to pick the Hawks as his club of choice. If this happens then it will prob take their 1st rd pick + player to get the deal done.

It's a shame as the Hawks have a history of getting players to nominate them as their desired club, then screwing them (and their original club) over by the end of trade week.

 

[Roosurgence]

I wonder if Gibbo has had the call from Pelicanshit yet?

I can imagine it going something like this......

Hey Gibbo, just thought I would give you a call. Just been talking to Shaun Burgoyne and he's keen to come to the Hawks and will probably need our first and second draft pick to land him. Sorry mate, but looks like we won't be able to trade for you anymore. Thanks for the chat and good luck, hope we haven't made things difficult for you? Bye

Would be so funny to see the Hawks drop Gibbo like a cold bag of sick in favour of getting Burgoyne. Would teach him for being sucked in by that arrogant prick.

 

[Zvim]

Zvim you seem to post an awful lot about this weak draft.

Can you please list some of these juniors half way thru your 2nd round that make Sam Power look like Gary Ablett?

I am very interested to hear more about this from you.

Thx dude.

I found 18 that I would consider worth drafting and half of those have some significant deficiencies. Pretty much anything other than those and I would rather have Sam Power over. That is how bad it is.

Not saying some of the others wont make it, but they haven't shown dick to suggest they would.

I hope we elevate our rookies and just pick up the bare minimum. This is a depressing year to be fourth last.

 

[__aria__]

That is very interesting indeed.

Can you list some of the names of those players in your 2nd round you would rather have Sam Power over?


To make it easier maybe you can just post your list of the 18 kids you think are worth drafting. I would like to get your thoughts on some of the ones you missed out on.

 

[Joey7]

I found 18 that I would consider worth drafting and half of those have some significant deficiencies. Pretty much anything other than those and I would rather have Sam Power over. That is how bad it is.

Not saying some of the others wont make it, but they haven't shown dick to suggest they would.

I hope we elevate our rookies and just pick up the bare minimum. This is a depressing year to be fourth last.

The TAC Cup isnt the be all and end all - recruiters will go outside of this to find talent IE. WAFL, SANFL, VFL ect. - and you cant tell me there isnt talent among all those leagues.

 

[Z_K]

I found 18 that I would consider worth drafting and half of those have some significant deficiencies. Pretty much anything other than those and I would rather have Sam Power over. That is how bad it is.

Sounds pretty bad.

Do you get to a few games a weekend or get video footage?

 

[RoyalBlue]

Sounds pretty bad.

Do you get to a few games a weekend or get video footage?

Video footage?

He's a subscriber to underagestars.com - does that count?

 

[CrazyQ]