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Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2
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- #9,226
Expand your horizons. There is far more to life than just the Bible. Indeed some of these other works can offer valuable life lessons and guidance. If you allow them to.
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- #9,227
It can be explained.
Clearly there are 2 gods here.
In Deuteronomy 13, your god commands the killing of anyone who worships another god, even their own families (apostasy in Islam alike but this next level), and even if they can perform miracles. If a few people in the same city worship other gods, everyone in the city is to be slaughtered, the livestock killed, and everything of value burned, and nothing shall be built there again. That's really extreme. If a few people in a town follow the wrong religion, slay them and salt the earth? This cannot be the God of, "Love your neighbor as yourself."
READ YOUR BIBLE.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
I have work which puts me in daily contact with all people, all races, all religions.
It is essential for me to know what makes these people click and tick.
It means getting a diverse knowledge of all aspects of what is important to people, including their beliefs.
If something comes up, I follow it up.
But it is great to have the base, being the Bible.
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Vdubs
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One God.
Different scenarios and interpretations.
Have read that multiple times.
Stubbornness, Sin and punishment is the message.
What different scenario? am i now allowed to worship anyone else? should i and MY entire family be killed for that? why do you stand up for such an evil judgement? This is the same god that said turn your other cheek if someone slaps you??? are you serious?
Only those verses you approve of you mean?
Causing suffering or destroying conscious beings is wrong, period. It can only be justified when it is achieving a greater good that could not be brought about in any other way (killing a terrorist who is about to set up a bomb)
Since God is all powerful, he could solve any problem without causing harm to people, but chooses not to. this is evil.
What about the kids he had murdered by bears because they made fun of a bald guy? Don't forget about the book of Job, god killed his kids and slaughtered thousands of his animals to win a bet.
'Sin' haha! i haven't seen a more pathetic defence of genocide than the one you just gave.
I guess genocide is acceptable to you if your god did it, no different to what Mohammed did. Well good to know, Abrahamics in action, kudos!
Toump Ass
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I challenge anyone to run around the house and sing: "I ****IN' LOVE JESUS!" for a whole day at the top of their lungs, I do it all the time, and it's really fun. I mean if you want to tell me you're Christian because you love singing about how much you love jesus then I'd say that's cool. Not convinced on the afterlife etc. but singing about Jesus is great fun, I love that shit.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
You purport to have more knowledge and wisdom than God.
You continue to tell us your opinion of God and His methods.
As said already, I believe in one God only, and mainly because of having accepted Jesus.
What God has done in the OT has been raised by you pages and pages ago.
I can not explain His ways. Fair to say it might be worth being on His good side.
Again I ask you which you refuse to answer- what harm is there to you et al if Christians today believe in Jesus , God and the Trinity, and try to live with Christian values?
It can only be a positive for society.
Poor argument, just terrible really. But i come to expect nothing better from you. God can rape cause he must have had a better plan. LOL..just the worst possible argument.
Saying that god was justified from god's perspective, is in fact man's perspective. It's man saying that god was justified. Our own human perspective is all we have. If god gave us our senses, and with those human senses we evaluate actions, and those senses tell us that god's actions were monstrous, how else are we to evaluate genocide, rape, and slavery? I seems glaringly clear that christians like you are merely making excuses for a god that they assert just can't be wrong. Well, from the perspective he gave us...he's wrong.
If we can't possibly know his perspective, then how are we to make any moral judgements on God, good or bad? It seems that your argument could just as easily be used to argue that we can't know that God, when being/doing good, is truly being/doing good for good's sake, rather than for the purposes of achieving greater evil.
What possible justification could there be for killing 42 children with bears for making fun of a bald man??? You cannot answer yet you keep saying he is kind and merciful. Maybe for once you can show me 'evidence' of the merciful god you are trying to potray? You haven't answer any of my questions outside of 'mysterious ways'. Why would i worship and read a book that tries to justify rape and murder?
If you have any other perspective, lets hear it , i am asking you for the millionth time, under what circumstances would you find rape to be acceptable?
The OT is the bedrock for the NT. You cannot dodge your way out of this. Jesus himself said he didn't come to change the laws but to fulfill.
The same values that led to slaughter of the whole world through colonization and spread of christianity? Europeans enslaved half the world, if not more, r*ped and pillaged rich cultures, stole their wealth and left them with nothing. Look at Africa, look at India. I told you my great grandfather was shot cause he refused to go to the church as we had our own religion. You are not going to take ownership of genocide cause you clear are ok with it as long as it's used to spread your fundamentalist values. Are you really proud how Christianity was spread? as i said, you seem to be completely ok and proud of Christian history, despite such brutal past.
Above: Icon of Jesus with sword, 14th century, Katholikon of the Sacred Monastery of the Ascension of Christ, Kosovo
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)
This is what happened! This is your Christian history, much more brutal than Islamic history. I can even name them
1. Saxon wars.
2. Northern Crusades
3. Albegenesian Crusade
etc etc
Millions and millions of lives lost! It was how Peter the Great Christianized Russia. It was how the pagans of Europe were Christianized. As well as the Natives of the Americas. You are really proud of it, by the looks of it! If Christianity was that good you wouldn't need the sword, quanity does not equal to quality, your argument has been a strawman right from the beginning.
Good to see you are showing your true colors. The 'pearls of wisdom' is indeed showing.
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- #9,237
Then for a true understanding you should read the works they they hold sacred, as well as your own. I'm sure you would recommend such to understand Christianity.
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- #9,238
The Bible certainly has been used to justify some truly horrific acts.
In the book of 1 Samuel (15:3), God said to Saul:
Saul does not carry out this command perfectly - he spares their king and a few of their tastier morsels of livestock. Yahweh proceeds to get very angry at him for this insubordination.
Pennsylvania State University Professor Philip Jenkins, a contributing editor for the American Conservative, states that the Puritans used this passage when they wanted to get rid of the Native American tribes. Catholics used it against Protestants, Protestants against Catholics. Says Jenkins "In Rwanda in 1994, Hutu preachers invoked King Saul's memory to justify the total slaughter of their Tutsi neighbors."
I've always found it weird that Blacks are the most religious group in the U.S. A large majority of their community devoutly follows the religion of their enslavers. I'd never considered that Native American Christians have adopted the religion of their suppressors, which is just as weird. I wonder how it is with native Americans in reality?
Why wont you simply answer the question ? What are you ducking that need answer a question with a question?
I have answered this before, under NO CONTEXT i think this acceptable, so i asked him, what context will be suitable for him to accept this regardless of what the verse states.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
I get, we all get that you are very angry about methods God has used.
Does that mean
1. you don't believe He exists, OR,
2. that you despise Him for His methods but agree He exists AND has done these atrocities?
If 1. then you're doing truck loads of arguing, researching and reading to substantiate your beliefs about a non-existent God
If 2. then you will never understand, and will always be angry and disillusioned
I repeat, i don't 'believe' in anything. Belief = i don't know, sugarcoated. You can put it any way you want, but that's the way it is. No -ism, no -ity for me.
I don't despise a fictional character, what i despise is inconsistencies in your argument, loving merciful god, nek minit, genocide rape, murder cause he has a bigger plan and works in mysterious ways.
1. I am not angry
2. I am not against Christianity
3. I am arguing against a fundamentalist believer like you, not against Christianity.
4. Your popularity argument is flawed in so many ways, i am trying to educate you about Christian history and how Christianity grew, so that you can actually start talking about the Bible instead of the ways christianity was spread. Quantity doesn't equal to quality, as i mentioned Justin Beiber is not better than Elvis despite sales figure showing otherwise. I want you to talk about the Bible, not about the number of followers you have.
Hope i am clear now.
You seem to be me to be ducking the question - a statement of your position is not answering the question.
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I have quoted the verses clearly for him to read. I dont need to spoonfeed him.
You've been challenged & offered nothing as is your right, happy you dont/wont /cant ...
Toump Ass
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Ken Copeland says Democrats kill babies, is that true?
Just quietly that sounds like something God would do.
Just quietly that sounds like something God would do.
I have quoted the verses, i am not interested in 'offering' a context for rape, which he can look up if he is interested anyway. Is it too hard for you to understand?
No its not hard to understand, you cant/wont .... as is your choice.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
I am a born again Christian.
I am not a Biblical scholar, just a daily reader, and freely admit I should read it a lot more. If I did, I may be better equipped to attempt your questions.
If you want to understand the Bible better, i can put you onto some excellent teachers.
However, I realise you just want to argue with fundamental believers, because you have worked out it can't be real. You call him a "fictional character". That says it all.
You either think God is fictional, or you disagree with His ways of dealing with His creation.
Which is it?
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