Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Total Power]

You make puerile statements about being better than God, whether it be morality or whatever. If you don't believe in God, that is one thing, but trying to compare yourself, your "morality" with God Himself, is farcical.

It's universally accepted that, "murdering children is evil". I'd hate to see a post where theist defend "children murdering" as moral or "God did it cause he has a reason".

Why worship this being if you cannot know its mind? How do you know it is benevolent if you cannot predict its code of morality? Because it told you? Do i need to paste the hundred verses from NT which is in direct conflict with loving/kind/caring God you claim exists?

Is there a conceivable scenario to you where your God is, at least partially, malevolent?

It is evil and that's why theistic gods tend to be pricks not worth worshiping. I am no atheist but when pressed i see you have just no reason to believe in such an entity, you cannot justify through your own conscience either outside of "God must have had a good reason"...reasons like... God killed ALL the first born of egypt, not the pharaoh, not his court magicians, not the slaveholders, and not those who were proud of their sins.

 

[Total Power]

We all have no idea when Jesus will return, but trying to be prepared for that by keeping your focus on Him, does not mean we don't care for what we are leaving our kids, grandkids etc.

He ain't returning, he is in tears seeing what you lot have done under his name.

 

[Evolved1]

You make puerile statements about being better than God, whether it be morality or whatever. If you don't believe in God, that is one thing, but trying to compare yourself, your "morality" with God Himself, is farcical.

Most modern humans have better morals than biblegod. I'm not going to torture anyone because they offend me, nor am I going to kill people and abduct virgin girls as loot. That's just the way humans have evolved.

Religion has a way of making people do horrible things while thinking they're doing good.

Jesus had the opportunity to tell his followers that abducting small girls and examining their genitals to see if they're worth keeping alive is wrong, and that killing gays is wrong, but he didn't. Jesus has a lot to answer for.

 

[Gethelred]

Au contraire.
You are projecting your own limitations and potential reaction.
You cannot pretend to know how we eat, vote, and function.
I could be a militant vegan, a commuting cyclist, an E- Car driver, and greenie while having a strong faith. You have no idea. But go ahead and make your incorrect generalisations.

We all have no idea when Jesus will return, but trying to be prepared for that by keeping your focus on Him, does not mean we don't care for what we are leaving our kids, grandkids etc.

I'm not talking about you, singular. I'm talking about the conclusions you collectively can reach from your viewpoints, should you follow them through to their conclusions. Or are you saying that christians have never behaved thus?

If you want to continue playing the victim, I can't stop you.

 

[Vdubs]

I'm not talking about you, singular. I'm talking about the conclusions you collectively can reach from your viewpoints, should you follow them through to their conclusions. Or are you saying that christians have never behaved thus?

If you want to continue playing the victim, I can't stop you.

I don't know any, none, who behave like you described. As I keep saying to you, your experiences with whatever group you were associated with have jaundiced you. Not playing victim at all- you make absurd statements as if you know how all Christians live and operate, yet the truth is, you have no idea.

 

[Gethelred]

I don't know any, none, who behave like you described. As I keep saying to you, your experiences with whatever group you were associated with have jaundiced you. Not playing victim at all- you make absurd statements as if you know how all Christians live and operate, yet the truth is, you have no idea.

You are absolutely playing the victim. If I make a conclusion that is general, you immediately chirp in with 'you know nothing about me'; that's playing the victim. Just because I'm referring to christians generally does not mean I'm referring specifically to you.

Ever heard of Jonestown? Those people thought they were in a dying world, too. While we're at it, have a look at this:

Unification Church - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

... and get back to me.

 

[Total Power]

Jesus had the opportunity to tell his followers that abducting small girls and examining their genitals to see if they're worth keeping alive is wrong, and that killing gays is wrong, but he didn't. Jesus has a lot to answer for.

To be fair a lot of the manuscripts were lost and many were forged by Romans and the Catholic church. Jesus distanced himself from the morality of OT althoough he didn't abolish them, but he rarely spoke about Moses Isiah etc, but Paul is a real dickhead here. He kept telling people to believe him that he really spoke with Jesus (in his dream) and wrote a lot of nonsense in the process.

 

[Vdubs]

You are absolutely playing the victim. If I make a conclusion that is general, you immediately chirp in with 'you know nothing about me'; that's playing the victim. Just because I'm referring to christians generally does not mean I'm referring specifically to you.

Ever heard of Jonestown? Those people thought they were in a dying world, too. While we're at it, have a look at this:

Unification Church - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

... and get back to me.

No thanks.
If you reply with a post to me, of course I am going to take it as it reads. You don't preface your posts by saying "this is not directed at you but Christians in general", do you. And I don't feel like a victim here, just bemused at your bizarre conclusions.

 

[Gethelred]

No thanks.
If you reply with a post to me, of course I am going to take it as it reads. You don't preface your posts by saying "this is not directed at you but Christians in general", do you. And I don't feel like a victim here, just bemused at your bizarre conclusions.

Because why the * should I have to preface a post that refers to christians generally? And you perpetually play the victim in here.

 

[Vdubs]

Because why the fu** should I have to preface a post that refers to christians generally? And you perpetually play the victim in here.

I don't feel like a victim here.
Some of your cronies criticise me for being entitled.
Whatever you all think, I am here to explain the reasons for my faith, despite your protestations about God and His ways.

 

[Total Power]

Whatever you all think, I am here to explain the reasons for my faith, despite your protestations about my version of the Christian God and His ways.

EFA

 

[Gethelred]

I don't feel like a victim here.
Some of your cronies criticise me for being entitled.
Whatever you all think, I am here to explain the reasons for my faith, despite your protestations about God and His ways.

Thought you were out of time.

Care to revisit the previous post?

You are absolutely playing the victim. If I make a conclusion that is general, you immediately chirp in with 'you know nothing about me'; that's playing the victim. Just because I'm referring to christians generally does not mean I'm referring specifically to you.

Ever heard of Jonestown? Those people thought they were in a dying world, too. While we're at it, have a look at this:

Unification Church - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

... and get back to me.

 

[Vdubs]

EFA

Are there versions of the Christian God and His ways that you actually approve of and believe in?

 

[Vdubs]

Thought you were out of time.

Care to revisit the previous post?

No.
That was for you; you are out of touch, out of time.

 

[Total Power]

Are there versions of the Christian God and His ways that you actually approve of and believe in?

There hundreds and thousands of versions, you have one, that was my point. Don't worry about me.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

The gradual degradation of society along with lessening of Christian faith, and the mocking of Christians, is well recognised.

What a load of rubbish. Society has been on the up since since we became ‘enlightened’ and out of the 1500 years of Christian dominated dark ages. Can’t believe someone with a brain would believe this sheer nonsense

 

[Total Power]

The gradual degradation of society along with lessening of Christian faith, and the mocking of Christians, is well recognised. Just helps the remainder of us to keep the faith as strongly as we can, despite the resistance.

Can you tell me what degradation has there been? least number of people below poverty line, least number of people starving, highest life expectancy ever, most number of people with basic secondary education, least number of people dying from natural disasters, the peaceful time in human history, the era of science and technology is truly amazing. We dont need to justify rape and murder as good anymore cause god works in mysterious ways, we don't need to stone homosexuals anymore cause developed countries accept all people as equal, slavery is no longer here, racism is frowned upon, gender rights etc....you see all these things as a negative?

Your argument will be remotely bearable IF your Christian heathens spread love and not venture on raping and pillaging other cultures. Ask me, my great grandfather was shot in NW SA, cause he didnt want to convert. 3/4th of the world been raped by your mob, from 13th century till the last century (now US has taken over but ok i will give it a pass) and somehow you think it's a good thing? no other followers of a specific religion have murdered, raped and killed more than Christians. That includes christians themselves of course.

So you are missing all of that hey?

Maybe you wish to go live in a cave somewhere with your slave from the Biblical era?

 

[Gethelred]

No.
That was for you; you are out of touch, out of time.

Of the two of us, I'm not the one using a book thousands of years out of date to tell me how to live.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

The gradual degradation of society along with lessening of Christian faith, and the mocking of Christians, is well recognised. Just helps the remainder of us to keep the faith as strongly as we can, despite the resistance.

Yeah, not like the good old days of the Crusades, Inquisitions, Raping of Children, Slavery, Burnings at the Stake, Cutting Out Tongues, Theft of Land, Religious Wars etc etc

Yeah, I bet you miss those days

 

[Vdubs]

Yeah, not like the good old days of the Crusades, Inquisitions, Raping of Children, Slavery, Burnings at the Stake, Cutting Out Tongues, Theft of Land, Religious Wars etc etc

Yeah, I bet you miss those days

It is a fallen world we live in, and science & technology is not the be all-end all; we struggle with sin on a daily basis. We experience heartache and pain. We witness natural disasters and staggering loss. Injustice, inhumanity, and falsehood seem to hold sway. Discord and trouble are commonplace. None of this was God’s original plan for humanity. We fell from our original position in the Garden of Eden. We now live in a fallen world, and all creation “groans” under the consequences of our sin (Romans 8:22).

Can you tell me what degradation has there been? least number of people below poverty line, least number of people starving, highest life expectancy ever, most number of people with basic secondary education, least number of people dying from natural disasters, the peaceful time in human history, the era of science and technology is truly amazing. We dont need to justify rape and murder as good anymore cause god works in mysterious ways, we don't need to stone homosexuals anymore cause developed countries accept all people as equal, slavery is no longer here, racism is frowned upon, gender rights etc....you see all these things as a negative?

Your argument will be remotely bearable IF your Christian heathens spread love and not venture on raping and pillaging other cultures. Ask me, my great grandfather was shot in NW SA, cause he didnt want to convert. 3/4th of the world been raped by your mob, from 13th century till the last century (now US has taken over but ok i will give it a pass) and somehow you think it's a good thing? no other followers of a specific religion have murdered, raped and killed more than Christians. That includes christians themselves of course.

So you are missing all of that hey?

Maybe you wish to go live in a cave somewhere with your slave from the Biblical era?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

What a load of rubbish. Society has been on the up since since we became ‘enlightened’ and out of the 1500 years of Christian dominated dark ages. Can’t believe someone with a brain would believe this sheer nonsense

Up until the period of turbocharged discovery that we called the Enlightenment, there was plenty of good reason to believe the religious version of the world. There simply was no better explanation available.

But then, discovery piled on discovery until a tipping point was reached and the whole edifice of religious explanation of the world fell over.

That was several hundred years ago and religion is still scrabbling to find where it fits in. (Unsurprisingly those who benefited from its elevated place in society aren't keen to let hold of the gig.)

Science and rational thought have not found all the answers; a mere fraction in fact, but they have never claimed to. And the answers they have found are proving enduring and impossible to refute.

I have no problem with people in this day and age finding solace, comfort and inspiration in whatever myths (and I don't mean that word in the pejorative sense) they want.

But I think it's high time they confined themselves to those myths, and conceded that their framing of how the universe works has been hopelessly outmoded for several centuries now, and as such, it is unlikely that we will ever again look to religion for answers.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

It is a fallen world we live in, and science & technology is not the be all-end all; we struggle with sin on a daily basis. We experience heartache and pain. We witness natural disasters and staggering loss. Injustice, inhumanity, and falsehood seem to hold sway. Discord and trouble are commonplace. None of this was God’s original plan for humanity. We fell from our original position in the Garden of Eden. We now live in a fallen world, and all creation “groans” under the consequences of our sin (Romans 8:22).

In regards to injustice, poverty and falsehoods humans have never had as good as in the last 200 years. Still a long way to go but we’re advancing in many areas. Religion has done its best to stifle change and progress, as others have mentioned, they executed anyone with a differing view, executed great minds. Turned an eye to slavery and poverty whilst in bed with the autocrats. Cast a pall of fear over the world. There’s your sin

 

[Gethelred]

It is a fallen world we live in, and science & technology is not the be all-end all; we struggle with sin on a daily basis. We experience heartache and pain. We witness natural disasters and staggering loss. Injustice, inhumanity, and falsehood seem to hold sway. Discord and trouble are commonplace. None of this was God’s original plan for humanity. We fell from our original position in the Garden of Eden. We now live in a fallen world, and all creation “groans” under the consequences of our sin (Romans 8:22).

I don't know about creation, but I'm certainly groaning at the moment, and it isn't from the consequences of sin.

 

[Vdubs]

I don't know about creation, but I'm certainly groaning at the moment, and it isn't from the consequences of sin.

Too much information. Haven't come across posting as a form of coitus interruptus.

 

[Roylion]

It is a fallen world we live in,

No, it's not.

and science & technology is not the be all-end all;

But certainly it has made life longer and often of a higher quality. More so than religion has.

A case in point.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/tanzania-covid-cases-nations-coronavirus-lie-exposed-on-live-tv/news-story/40e6270e9865f3dc3258079318a4ffd0

we struggle with sin on a daily basis.

I don't.

We witness natural disasters and staggering loss.

There have always been natural disasters. There have just been less people for those to have had an impact on.

Injustice, inhumanity, and falsehood seem to hold sway.

This is nothing new.

Discord and trouble are commonplace.

Always have been.

None of this was God’s original plan for humanity.

God didn't have an original plan for humanity.

We fell from our original position in the Garden of Eden.

There was no "Garden of Eden" to fall from.

One of the words for heaven in the Bible is Paradise - and this word, from the ancient Iranian words pairi-daeza, 'enclosed garden', is one of the very few definite Persian loan-words in the Bible and indicates a significant Zoroastrian influence. In the story of Adam and Eve, the snake represents Satan, or the Devil, Ahriman, the Evil Spirit.

According to the Persian legend in the Bundish, the full version of which will have been among the lost parts of the Zend-Avesta, Meschia and Meschiane, the first man and woman, were seduced by Ahriman, in the form of a serpent, and they committed “in thought, word, and deed, the carnal sin, and thus tainted with original sin all their descendants”. The six days of creation also in Genesis finds a parallel in the six periods of Creation described in the older Zoroastrian scriptures.

It's a story.