Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Sweet Jesus]

There is evidence. You just don’t believe the evidence.
You dismiss every supernatural claim of the apostles… and that is fine.
There was a Jesus … good evidence of an empty tomb .
There was a Church that started straight after the death of Jesus etc etc. It has all panned out as if Jesus was God.

If someone asked Peter what evidence of God. He would have said “ I just saw a risen Christ and look at me I’m glowing with the Holy Spirit “
Fair enough Pete. Or have a lie down Pete. You can go either way.

There is evidence it’s just what is claimed is the problem.

In the human situation ..we find ourselves open to events occurring or have occurred that are beyond the comprehension of our mind . Sure I think there is enough evidence of that .
Didn’t Dawkins or someone say “ something pretty mysterious “?

This is your evidence of the existence of god?

This is why people regard your belief as silly.

Why not concede that you believe despite there being no evidence?

Instead, you want it both ways. You want to preach about "faith" in all these supernatural events. But at the same time, you want to insist it's all perfectably reasonable because there's real evidence it all happened that way.

Which one is it?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

“The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim, Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6) in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to himself.”

And?

 

[Roylion]

This is kind of off-topic but when you were in Israel did you see any examples of 'Jerusalem Syndrome' or psychotic decompensation as this article call it.

Jerusalem syndrome | The British Journal of Psychiatry | Cambridge Core

Jerusalem syndrome - Volume 176 Issue 1

www.cambridge.org

I saw many visitors overcome at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre with many crying, moaning and praying loudly over the Stone of Anointing, where reputedly the body of Jesus was laid upon for anointing before burial.

 

[Roylion]

You are arguing against yourself.

No I'm not.

Name one person that hasn't gone through the teaching/education/indoctrination process?

Of "God"?

My children. They were born "non-theist". And they remain "non-theist". They give little to no thought to "God" and his design or form and certainly do not use it as an explanation for things that are unknown to them. The concept of "God" has no bearing on their decision making process throughout life.

That's why it's the default. Everything points us to it. Everything. From birth.

Belief in the existence of a divine reality (i.e theism) is taught. It's not the "default."

 

[Boston tiger]

This is your evidence of the existence of god?

This is why people regard your belief as silly.

Why not concede that you believe despite there being no evidence?

Instead, you want it both ways. You want to preach about "faith" in all these supernatural events. But at the same time, you want to insist it's all perfectably reasonable because there's real evidence it all happened that way.

Which one is it?

Are you calling the apostles liars ?

Oh and Merry Christmas

 

[Boston tiger]

And?

This is what devout Christians think about other religions .

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

There is evidence. You just don’t believe the evidence.
You dismiss every supernatural claim of the apostles… and that is fine.
There was a Jesus … good evidence of an empty tomb .
There was a Church that started straight after the death of Jesus etc etc. It has all panned out as if Jesus was God.

If someone asked Peter what evidence of God. He would have said “ I just saw a risen Christ and look at me I’m glowing with the Holy Spirit “
Fair enough Pete. Or have a lie down Pete. You can go either way.

There is evidence it’s just what is claimed is the problem.

In the human situation ..we find ourselves open to events occurring or have occurred that are beyond the comprehension of our mind . Sure I think there is enough evidence of that .
Didn’t Dawkins or someone say “ something pretty mysterious “?

That is not evidence.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

This is what devout Christians think about other religions .

What's that?

 

[Total Power]

Are you calling the apostles liars ?

Oh and Merry Christmas

Paul certainly was. He had the ulterior motive to lie. I have discussed this extensively here, he was facing persecution, nek minit, Jesus. Without him you do not really have a New Testament. More than half of what's written there came from him.

 

[Roylion]

Are you calling the apostles liars ?

The apostles didn't write the Gospels.

 

[Number37]

Really? All of them?

It's not an insult or a criticism...it is just an observation.
If it is offensive then there is no point having this discussion.

 

[Number37]

So if we have no evidence for a claim, not believing is more rational than believing.

And?
I don't know WTF you are on about and I don't know WTF that has to do with what I wrote.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

And?
I don't know WTF you are on about and I don't know WTF that has to do with what I wrote.

So if we have no evidence for a claim, not believing is more rational than believing.

So if we have no evidence for the claim that god exists, not believing is more rational than believing.

It's not even stevens, which is what you claimed.

 

[Number37]

Huh?

You may as well be asking someone to produce evidence that the tooth fairy doesn't exist.

In the absence of evidence, what basis is there to believe any claim?

WTF are you on about?

No evidence is no evidence.
No evidence isn't the same thing as not true.

 

[Number37]

So if we have no evidence for a claim, not believing is more rational than believing.

So if we have no evidence for the claim that god exists, not believing is more rational than believing.

It's not even stevens, which is what you claimed.

And?

WTF are you on about?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

WTF are you on about?

No evidence is no evidence.
No evidence isn't the same thing as not true.

And?

WTF are you on about?

If there's no evidence for a claim, like the claim that god exists, then it makes no sense to believe it.

You suggested belief and non-belief were equally reasonable positions. They're not.

 

[Number37]

No I'm not.



Of "God"?

My children. They were born "non-theist". And they remain "non-theist". They give little to no thought to "God" and his design or form and certainly do not use it as an explanation for things that are unknown to them. The concept of "God" has no bearing on their decision making process throughout life.



Belief in the existence of a divine reality (i.e theism) is taught.

Your kids never interact with anyone? They live in a bubble?
Never ever encountered religion anywhere??

Interesting.
I guess that settles it then.

 

[Number37]

If there's no evidence for a claim, like the claim that god exists, then it makes no sense to believe it.

You suggested belief and non-belief were equally reasonable positions. They're not.

If you say so.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

If you say so.

That's what I've demonstrated.

Do you believe in the tooth fairy?

No, because there's no evidence for it. You don't say "well, it's still 50/50".

The same goes for the existence of god. There's no evidence, so it makes no sense to believe.

 

[Boston tiger]

The apostles didn't write the Gospels.

Glad you mentioned the Gospels. C.S Lewis the great fantasy fiction writer converted from atheism due to him studying the Gospels.. being an expert in fiction/fantasy came to the conclusion that the Gospel couldn't possibly be works of fiction
Fascinating stuff and hope for all.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Glad you mentioned the Gospels. C.S Lewis the great fantasy fiction writer converted from atheism due to him studying the Gospels.. being an expert in fiction/fantasy came to the conclusion that the Gospel couldn't possibly be works of fiction
Fascinating stuff and hope for all.

Well I think subsequent findings about the origins of the Bible show us that Lewis wasn't working with a full deck of cards.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Glad you mentioned the Gospels. C.S Lewis the great fantasy fiction writer converted from atheism due to him studying the Gospels.. being an expert in fiction/fantasy came to the conclusion that the Gospel couldn't possibly be works of fiction
Fascinating stuff and hope for all.

Yeah, wow, can't argue with that.

Did you know that renowned screen actor Tom Cruise believes in Scientology?

So maybe there's something in that as well?

 

[Total Power]

Glad you mentioned the Gospels. C.S Lewis the great fantasy fiction writer converted from atheism due to him studying the Gospels.. being an expert in fiction/fantasy came to the conclusion that the Gospel couldn't possibly be works of fiction
Fascinating stuff and hope for all.

Hardly validates the Gospel, C.S Lewis fell into his own trap, one place he says 'Brains and thoughts are not truthworthy', nek minit, he uses the logic and power of logical thoughts to deduce God through reductionism. Hardly a revelation.

“Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. It is merely that when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought. But, if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? It’s like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London. But if I can’t trust my own thinking, of course I can’t trust the arguments leading to Atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an Atheist, or anything else. Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought: so I can never use thought to disbelieve in God.” —C.S. Lewis



lewis argues that without god, there would be no reason for the human mind to be reliable as a means of understanding the world. Lewis does not explain why God is the only possible source of a functional mind; he just can't think of any other source. It would have to be God, what else could it be? Yet he never gave us any reason to think that there is a God. His argument presumes that there is a God. Then he argues that since God is the source of the human capacity to reason, it would be impossible to use reason to doubt God.

Lewis never considers the possibility that, as I said in my previous comment a few pages ago, a reliable and functional mind would be a logical product of biological evolution, and no supernatural explanations would be needed. I will add that even if I did not have an evolutionary explanation available, it would still be more logical to simply say, we do not know why the human mind works as well as it does, than to say, human rationality must be a gift from God, a claim for which we have absolutely no evidence.

He also claims, morality comes from God. So where in the Bible can we find these moralities? Ten Commandments? Is owning a slave moral? how about homosexuality? Or morality is evolving as time goes by? if so, where in the Gospel can we find these universal moralities like he claims there is?

 

[Boston tiger]

Yeah, wow, can't argue with that.

Did you know that renowned screen actor Tom Cruise believes in Scientology?

So maybe there's something in that as well?

It's a fact that's all . C S Lewis converted to Christianity because in his literacy expertise he deemed the Gospels to be works of non fiction.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

It's a fact that's all . C S Lewis converted to Christianity because in his literacy expertise he deemed the Gospels to be works of non fiction.

And what does this prove or demonstrate?