Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Leeda]

Christians are in decline. Why doesn't God try and flatten the curve?

well we all crush the dynamic and tell each other that we are riding the wave..
shutter the blades of the eyes and keep telling us that we are doing the right thing.. but... and but...
we are all in his back pocket.. no that is not correct.. we are all in this together..

all the rest is rubbish..

 

[Crankitup]

Interesting article that ties in with the tithing question asked earlier.

I wonder how cults like the Mormons will survive.

Coronavirus shutdowns place financial strain on churches

Churches are bracing for a financial hit, as coronavirus shutdowns disrupt their operations.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

EDIT: I spoke too soon.

As church income drops, the wage subsidy scheme kicks in

www.eternitynews.com.au

 

[iBeng]

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Which parts of the Bible are to be considered hard and fast Rules and which parts are to be considered just Parables?

How can you tell the difference?

Who decides which is which?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

What's with the fish bumper stickers?

 

[Vdubs]

Which parts of the Bible are to be considered hard and fast Rules and which parts are to be considered just Parables?

How can you tell the difference?

Who decides which is which?

Read the whole Bible and let us know your thoughts.
In many Bibles, the NT has the spoken words by Jesus in red letters.
His messages are often in parables.
It is self-evident when his words are instructions for living, or parables for contemplation.
Nevertheless, his main message centres around following him to find God.
Nit-picking over such issues that have been raised are distractions at best.
If somebody really has a hunger for the truths in the Bible, he WILL find them.

 

[Vdubs]

What's with the fish bumper stickers?

Ichthys, The Christian Fish Symbol Origin and History Facts

You can spot it anywhere: on someone’s shirt, in a newspaper advertisement, even on the back side of the car in front of you in traffic. It is the recognizable Christian Fish or Jesus Fish symbol, which resembles a hand-drawn fish that sometimes includes a cross for the eye or the name Jesus in...

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Read the whole Bible and let us know your thoughts.
In many Bibles, the NT has the spoken words by Jesus in red letters.
His messages are often in parables.
It is self-evident when his words are instructions for living, or parables for contemplation.
Nevertheless, his main message centres around following him to find God.
Nit-picking over such issues that have been raised are distractions at best.
If somebody really has a hunger for the truths in the Bible, he WILL find them.

Another typical Christian 'non-answer'

Why not just say you have no idea

 

[Evolved1]

What's with the fish bumper stickers?

All this time, I thought they were vaginas.

 

[Evolved1]

Good question.

About twenty years ago I sent the following letter to three churches. No reply was ever received. I picked denominations that mentioned tithing in their online denominational statement;

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I noticed in your denominational statement that you regard tithes and free-will offerings as God's method to support the work of the church today.

I have some questions;

(1) Did Christ not say that tithing was a lesser part of the LAW, (the weightier matters being justice, mercy and faith). Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

(2) Didn't Paul say in his letter to the Galatians that if any man wanted to trust in the LAW he is cursed? (He used circumcision as an example). Wasn't the law our teacher to bring us to Christ?

(3) Isn't it clear from reading Malachi chapters 1 & 2 that the book of Malachi (including verse 3:10 which you have quoted) was directed towards the priests? Malachi 1:6b O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? & Malachi 2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

(4) Isn't it true that Paul could not have collected any TITHES because the law specifically stated that the TITHE was to be directed to the STOREHOUSE which was situated in the temple at Jerusalem, and the temple was still around whilst he was alive.

(5) Isn't it true that under the New Covenant, if we should be directed by anyone other than ourselves in how much we should give, that direction should come from the Holy Spirit?

(6) Isn't it true that Paul said the Holy Spirit had directed that no other burden should be placed on the Gentile converts than that of fleeing fornication and idolatry etc. and tithing was not one of the items mentioned? If they were going to be subject to the devourer mentioned in Malachi if they didn't tithe (as is so often taught in churches today), then why didn't Paul add tithing to his list of things that the gentile converts should observe?

(7) Isn't it true that Christ told His followers just before He returned to Heaven, that they should teach all nations to observe whatsoever he had commanded THEM to observe? Can we find one instance in all of scripture where He commanded them to tithe or to teach the tithe as a New Covenant principle of giving? Admittedly in Matthew 23 He stated that the Pharisees should still tithe, but wasn't this before he fulfilled the LAW by dying on the cross? (i.e. the Pharisees were still under the law and obligated to tithe, circumcise etc whilst the law was still in operation). Notice also that Jesus used the past tense in Matthew 23:23 these ought ye to have done

(8) Isn't it true that ancient Israel's tithing system was a precursor to our current system of taxation, which amongst other things, provides a means of support to the poor?

(9) If we are under a new and better covenant, why do so many want to resurrect particular aspects of the old covenant which was made with ISRAEL, and not with the rest of mankind? The Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists command tithing also. If people give as they are directed by the Holy Spirit, then error would be so much harder to propagate.

(10) If in the future I pastor a church and I never ask the congregation to tithe, but instead ask the Holy Spirit to guide them in how to give, will I be breaking any New Testament or New Covenant principle? If so, did Paul break same said principle when he didn't ask the Corinthian church for financial support but relied on tent-making and other means of support instead?

Good points there. Just to add my 2c worth, the tithe was never money and never paid by everyone. If the old testament form of tithing was being practiced by churches today, only farmers would be paying it.

Malachi 3:10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house."

Leviticus 27:30-32: And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s. It is holy to the Lord. If a man wants at all to redeem any of his tithes, he shall add one-fifth to it. And concerning the tithe of the herd or the flock, of whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the Lord. He shall not inquire whether it is good or bad, nor shall he exchange it; and if he exchanges it at all, then both it and the one exchanged for it shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.’ ”

 

[Vdubs]

Another typical Christian 'non-answer'

Why not just say you have no idea

But that is not true, I do know, and that is the reply.
There is something about your "typical nonChristian " questions. You already believe you know the answer. So in this case, you assert that the correct answer is, words to the effect of "anybody's guess"..
Some People spend their working lives commenting on, getting the context correct, and analysing the Bible for their Church members. Do you think a brief reply on this thread can answer your "question"?
Whereas I DO KNOW that what I have said is correct. I stand corrected if any Christian tells me it is incorrect. And that comes from 36 years of serious Bible reading and studying.

 

[Evolved1]

But that is not true, I do know, and that is the reply.
There is something about your "typical nonChristian " questions. You already believe you know the answer. So in this case, you assert that the correct answer is, words to the effect of "anybody's guess"..
Some People spend their working lives commenting on, getting the context correct, and analysing the Bible for their Church members. Do you think a brief reply on this thread can answer your "question"?
Whereas I DO KNOW that what I have said is correct. I stand corrected if any Christian tells me it is incorrect. And that comes from 36 years of serious Bible reading and studying.

Just to be clear, you're complaining about non-believers claiming to know the answers to questions that you claim to know the answer to. Is that correct?

It's my experience that many non-believers understand the bible better than the average church going Christian. Understanding the bible is what led me to atheism.

 

[Vdubs]

Just to be clear, you're complaining about non-believers claiming to know the answers to questions that you claim to know the answer to. Is that correct?

It's my experience that many non-believers understand the bible better than the average church going Christian. Understanding the bible is what led me to atheism.

NO
I'm saying that many of the questions here are not questions, but veiled comments and statements.
You already know the answer hence the question. And any Christian reply is then deemed to be "typical Christian non reply".
What I claimed is that my reply is correct according to my knowledge of the Bible from 36 years of study and experiential living.

I'm in disbelief about your pathway yo atheism, but so be it for you.
No need to ask Christians any questions at all is there, unless of course you are not 100% sold on your atheistic existence at this time.

 

[Evolved1]

NO
I'm saying that many of the questions here are not questions, but veiled comments and statements.
You already know the answer hence the question. And any Christian reply is then deemed to be "typical Christian non reply".
What I claimed is that my reply is correct according to my knowledge of the Bible from 36 years of study and experiential living.

Thanks for elaborating. You raise a good point about there about many questions that are veiled comments and statements. I agree with you about that.

I'm in disbelief about your pathway yo atheism, but so be it for you.

I've read the bible through twice, and many parts of the new testament many more times. I'm also a former board member of a church. Following biblical principles for seeking the truth led me to atheism.

No need to ask Christians any questions at all is there, unless of course you are not 100% sold on your atheistic existence at this time.

I make no claim that there are no gods, just that there is no objective evidence for the existence of them. I welcome any evidence to the contrary, and I'm happy to discuss Christianity from pretty much any angle.

I even started a bible discussion, but so far no takers. Do you tithe?

 

[Vdubs]

Thanks for elaborating. You raise a good point about there about many questions that are veiled comments and statements. I agree with you about that.
I've read the bible through twice, and many parts of the new testament many more times. I'm also a former board member of a church. Following biblical principles for seeking the truth led me to atheism.
I make no claim that there are no gods, just that there is no objective evidence for the existence of them. I welcome any evidence to the contrary, and I'm happy to discuss Christianity from pretty much any angle.

I even started a bible discussion, but so far no takers. Do you tithe?

Sounds like you have had poor experiences to jump from believer, or at least member, to atheism.
Could it have been a less than ideal church itself?
Throwing out the baby with the bath water is extreme.
Atheism, by definition, denounces a belief in God, or gods as you put it.
We give weekly an amount that is appropriate to our incomes.

What a lot of non believers struggle with is the faith that believers have, which overrides plenty of less than ideal life and even Church experiences.

 

[Evolved1]

Sounds like you have had poor experiences to jump from believer, or at least member, to atheism.
Could it have been a less than ideal church itself?
Throwing out the baby with the bath water is extreme.
Atheism, by definition, denounces a belief in God, or gods as you put it.
We give weekly an amount that is appropriate to our incomes.

What a lot of non believers struggle with is the faith that believers have, which overrides plenty of less than ideal life and even Church experiences.

I had good experiences as a believer. Ignorance is bliss.

"The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him." Proverbs 18:17

 

[Vdubs]

I had good experiences as a believer. Ignorance is bliss.

"The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him." Proverbs 18:17

So what truths were you seeking that led to atheism?
If it is as you say it is, there is not a lot that can be said to you.
You Believed, had faith..presumably.
You knew the Bible.
You have deduced The Bible and its messages are not real.
You have deduced that Christianity and God are not real.
If Christians you know or don't know are not praying for you, and you are confident in your decision, so be it.
I suspect that coming onto this thread suggests even the slightest interest in the possibility you could be swayed back to reexamine.

 

[Evolved1]

So what truths were you seeking that led to atheism?

The truth.

If you don't attempt to understand all angles of any issue, you'll live in a small world.

 

[Vdubs]

The truth.

If you don't attempt to understand all angles of any issue, you'll live in a small world.

The truth of what. What do you believe is false?
Have you evidence to refute the Christian version of truth?

 

[mikey127]

The truth of what. What do you believe is false?
Have you evidence to refute the Christian version of truth?

Just want to command you on how well your answering questions on here.

Out of interest what denomination are you?

 

[Evolved1]

The truth of what. What do you believe is false?
Have you evidence to refute the Christian version of truth?

You've been provided with a shitload of evidence from people who have delved deeper into Christianity, comparative religion, science, philosophy, history, and logic than you. You've acknowledged that several times. That doesn't mean you're less intelligent, just less knowledgeable.

Many Christians spend their time actively trying to reinforce their faith even though they claim to KNOW the truth. That's called confirmation bias.

The truth stands according to the evidence that supports it. I don't need to be indoctrinated every weekend so that I can have a stronger belief in evolution.

 

[Vdubs]

Just want to command you on how well your answering questions on here.

Out of interest what denomination are you?

Welcome back. I need assistance.
I only came upon this thread a little while ago.
The content may have deviated from your original intention, but it clearly still attracts plenty of questions that are often well researched, and sometimes disingenuous.
Was a Catholic upbringing.
Born again at age 26.
We live really close to a Baptist Church and we feel at home there.
But I call myself a Christian on surveys etc.
Yourself?

 

[mrmonkey]

First time I've been on this thread but this thought only occurred to me recently. What is it like being a Christian in this day and age in Australia? Do Christians feel that non religious Australians view them negatively? Do Christians feel they have to conceal their faith?

The reasons I ask these questions is that when people are critical of religion I feel they are particularly harsher on Christians they any other major religion. Perhaps it's because we live in a country where Christianity is the major religion and therefore fair game despite other religions having similar beliefs. There's a few things that come to mind when people in my opinion take cheap shots at Christianity. One is the lack of evidence of the existence of Jesus. I remember having a conversation with a friend who was at the time when talking about religion was very negative when she said there's no evidence of Jesus existing I felt that I had to bat for Christianity. I just said that just because there isn't does that mean you can completely rule him out? I mean is it not possible that a man 2000 years ago stirred the pot a little? I mean you don't have to believe the miracles but surely out of the thousands of people we know the Romans crucified not one of them could have been Jesus. To me people can be so anti Christian as they don't seem to be open minded to some think things that may be plausible. Of course this is just my opinion but I feel the vibe of it is making a statement like that is more of an attack on Christians rather than an argument. The other thing I see pop up occasionally on social media is people talking about how evil Christianity is based on the crusades. To me this is a pretty silly argument. First of all the crusades were a thousand odd years ago how is it relevant to modern Christians? Also do they really think Christians are the only religious group to go to war. To me It's just weak and just another example of Christians being fair game. I just wonder how these people would feel living in other countries where religion has a big influence on their laws. Which brings me to my other argument which I just thought of. I've even seen criticism of the ten commandments being an influence on western laws. True to a certain extent but where's the problem? Thou shall not steal? Thou shall not murder? Pretty sure everyone can agree that these are good for the community. I can't think of any other commandments that influence the law. We are free to commit adultery and there's freedom of religion. Look I think most people are peaceful as are most people who are religious it's just a small minority I feel that can get nasty. Particularly when something like the Pell case or the same sex marriage debate pops up gives another excuse to lay the boots in. Even when criticising the PM calling him happy clappy I feel it's just unnecessary criticise him on his policies all day but why go his religion. Sorry about ranting on for so long as I said I haven't been on here and don't really express my thoughts much at all. It's just something that came to my mind recently.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

The truth of what. What do you believe is false?
Have you evidence to refute the Christian version of truth?

FMD Roylion has smacked you six ways of Sunday, when it comes to truth.

 

[Vdubs]

FMD Roylion has smacked you six ways of Sunday, when it comes to truth.

Maybe. He provided his research, none of which categorically refutes the existence of God and/or Jesus.
People don't accept our faith as a principle, but nobody can disprove the existence of God, or of JESUS AS A PERSON.