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Vdubs

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You missed the point as usual. We are talking about what's arrogant or not, saying 5.5 billion people in the world are wrong? you have the cheek to call others arrogant?

Considering all the things Christianity got wrong, you think it's right? why? We had this discussion before, apparently it's more important not to shave before mass than abolish slavery. It's more important for my wife to be virgin than accepting women as equal to men. It's more important to beat all the infants to death in Egypt cause the pharoah is corrupted. Why would you want to follow such a deity?

Most of the Christians i know of don't even believe in the above, remember what Pope said? belief in Christianity is not required to go to heaven, i am talking about your types, specially.

You still discount the fact that if God wanted him to follow his ways he could have done a better job than the Bible. He missed about 5.5 billion people, not a great hit rate and Constantine should be your real hero and not Jesus.

The original purpose of religion (religare as in to unite) is for human beings to get closer to something larger than ourselves. Each of us has our own perception of reality and how we can achieve this; all of these ideas are perfectly valid and make our world the diverse place it is. You guys have turned it into a popularity contest, precisely why i am against your variety or arrogance, you guys do great disserve to spirituality and specially Jesus.

What loss to have faith? we had this convo before, living your life in slavery and fear! be obidient to your master orelse...you lose your one and only life, based on a book clearly written by primitive men. You lose everything you have in life, your freedom, your conscience. Your own self..all this for a reward for somethng no one has ever seen or experienced.!

Amazing.
What is amazing is how you consistently credit posters (Christians- me) with words I haven't actually said.
When did I call anyone here arrogant?
In saying that we believe Jesus is THE WAY to God, that is what is taught in the Bible. Basic truth. That is not arrogance, just because we know it to be the truth.
I don't care how many times you have read the Good Book- it is clear it's a chore for you, and not edifying for you.
If you want the Bible to come alive for you, go back to Jesus.
The Holy Spirit allows the Bible to inspire you, and passages will hit you like never before.
Without the Spirit, you will be a nit-picker and bored as!!
 

Total Power

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What is amazing is how you consistently credit posters (Christians- me) with words I haven't actually said.
When did I call anyone here arrogant?
Here?
.But to have the arrogance to say I would live my life purely as I want to, with disregard for God and His ways, does not sit well with me.
and here
Even in all the pages here, which you may have read, there is scorn and derision about God and Jesus. People are so arrogant and self made and self sufficient now, at their own peril. They think they are God within themselves, and that science and evolution explains everything.
Do you even read what you post? others are arrogant but you claiming Christian supremacy over every other religion and above 5.5 billion people, claiming Jesus is the ONLY way to God is not arrogant? Mankind is misguided apparently, but exclusivist Supremacist position is not arrogance? you are the Nazi equivalent of organised religion.
In saying that we believe Jesus is THE WAY to God, that is what is taught in the Bible. Basic truth. That is not arrogance, just because we know it to be the truth.
It is arrogant to say this is the ONLY way to god. It's not about what you believe, it's about what you dismiss. Why do you think other religions are not the way to god and Christianity is the one and only true religion? effectively if you deny this, your whole cult will fall away as then you are denying Jesus is not the only to way which you claimed all along that it is. Either way you are doomed, you are better off pretending not to be supremacist and present your true self.


I don't care how many times you have read the Good Book- it is clear it's a chore for you, and not edifying for you.
If you want the Bible to come alive for you, go back to Jesus.
There is no one christian belief, like you think it is. I think before and after i read. Unlike you. You think sin is the reason for disease and natural disaster. You think sin is why we fall, yet you are not able to tell us what 'sin' is and what the character of your deity is.

You may convince halfwits or children with is, you will never convince the thinking and critical types with this.
The Holy Spirit allows the Bible to inspire you, and passages will hit you like never before.
Without the Spirit, you will be a nit-picker and bored as!!
Absurd simply absurd. But isn't the god supposed to be all knowing and the ultimate form of intelligence that we can't even begin to fathom? So he must possess some ability to empathize with humans in the first place... If he is all knowing and all powerful god he shouldn't have to carry out an experiment, he should know the result of the experiment before doing it.

God is a jerk in the OT! He banishes Adam and Eve, smites people, fire and brimstone, earthquakes, floods, etc. But God is all knowing right? So why doesn't he understand? And why is he so angry?

Simple example one of the reasons (out of 1 million) i walked away:

Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!
Exodus 20:13
“You shall not murder."

You don't see a problem with the 2 verses above? do you parrot? Remember , be obedient! start getting blessed! why don't you? and see where you end up...i dare you to find the context of this verse.
 
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Total Power

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You continually miss the whole point of a relationship with Jesus, and the liberation that brings about in believers, the peace of mind, seeing the world the way He did. It is NOT popular, and not alluring to those who don't have a yearning to know God. And there are impostors. But it is the way.
I don't know where or how or why you fell out, but what we do know it is you who walked away, not God. The offer is always there to return.
lol here we go again. The merry go around your tele-evangilism. Why would i go back to the sewer i came out from?

WHY i walked away?? cause i simply couldn't understand how can you call this deity kind. The same place that you get your compass for calling him "loving", "understanding", "glorious".

Christians like you like to pretend that they know the true attributes of their gods...unless they are obviously brutal and unfair. Then they pretend that their gods cannot be known by mere mortals and that the gods should not be questioned - only obeyed. You have displayed this tendency multiple times, he is kind and tolerant, except when he is not. He is loving and generous, except when he is not.

Lots of things brings 'peace to mind'. Walking my dog brings peace like no other, why would the offer to have an eternal life with a Nazi supremacist offer peace? it may float the boat of gullible like you, it doesn't float mine. The other of that c@nt in the Bible being real is really problematic and you haven't justified your position but apparently he exists! cause you said so?

I explained to you how i fell out, it's the Bible. The Bible provides all the reasons why i should not be a Christian. The only way to see what's in the box is when you are out of it, little chance you see it when you are a part of the cult. As Mark Twain once said, 'if you want to turn someone into an Atheist, read Bible, from cover to cover'. I already stated why Bible is immoral, illogical and quite simply put, ABSURD. You offer no arguments and again resort to bullshit evangelical means which only convinces halfwits. Do you want me to go through the horrible things your God and mostly Christians have done to the world? again? i am more than willing to do so.

So tell me Vdubs, the OT states that God's name is Yehwah and YWH will be known by no other name outside of YWH. Nek minit, Jesus. How and why is that possible? You, just like me, don't believe discard a large part of the Bible anyway, you just select the parts you think is good cause apparently it's the word of God. So tell me Vdubs, do you think i should kill my son if he disobeys me? Heck, accordiing to the Bible, Freddy Mercury should have been stoned cause you know homoesxuality!

Your belief system is outright dangerous and not suited to the civilised world. You say you lose 'nothing', you actually do. You lose everything mankind achieved for the past 100 years since the industrial revolution, resorting to your stone age belief system.
 
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Total Power

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Great words and clip.
What you think of this verse?
Deuteronomy 21: "18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."



Remember god wants you to be obedient...just follow the advice!

LOL sad, quite sad! and you have the cheek to ask 'i don't know how you turned away from the Bible'.

Maybe cause i don't glorify murder, incest, rape, infanticide, slavery by saying it's god so he can do anything but reward collecting foreskin, not shaving, not eating shellfish, deity worship etc?

I ask you again, assuming your deity exists, why the **** would you follow such a c@nt? if i idolise someone i must be certain of his character. You don't even know what this deity is like, from the Bible it's apparent he got his priorities in a tangle, the reason why most Christians have abandoned the OT. It's best you do the same too.
 
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Vdubs

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What you think of this verse?
Deuteronomy 21: "18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."



Remember god wants you to be obedient...just follow the advice!

LOL sad, quite sad! and you have the cheek to ask 'i don't know how you turned away from the Bible'.

Maybe cause i don't glorify murder, incest, rape, infanticide, slavery by saying it's god so he can do anything but reward collecting foreskin, not shaving, not eating shellfish, deity worship etc?

I ask you again, assuming your deity exists, why the **** would you follow such a c@nt? if i idolise someone i must be certain of his character. You don't even know what this deity is like, from the Bible it's apparent he got his priorities in a tangle, the reason why most Christians have abandoned the OT. It's best you do the same too.
All I see is anger at words in the OT . You should edit this post dramatically. Line 1, last paragraph.
 

Vdubs

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and here


Do you even read what you post? others are arrogant but you claiming Christian supremacy over every other religion and above 5.5 billion people, claiming Jesus is the ONLY way to God is not arrogant? Mankind is misguided apparently, but exclusivist Supremacist position is not arrogance? you are the Nazi equivalent of organised religion.


It is arrogant to say this is the ONLY way to god. It's not about what you believe, it's about what you dismiss. Why do you think other religions are not the way to god and Christianity is the one and only true religion? effectively if you deny this, your whole cult will fall away as then you are denying Jesus is not the only to way which you claimed all along that it is. Either way you are doomed, you are better off pretending not to be supremacist and present your true self.




There is no one christian belief, like you think it is. I think before and after i read. Unlike you. You think sin is the reason for disease and natural disaster. You think sin is why we fall, yet you are not able to tell us what 'sin' is and what the character of your deity is.

You may convince halfwits or children with is, you will never convince the thinking and critical types with this.


Absurd simply absurd. But isn't the god supposed to be all knowing and the ultimate form of intelligence that we can't even begin to fathom? So he must possess some ability to empathize with humans in the first place... If he is all knowing and all powerful god he shouldn't have to carry out an experiment, he should know the result of the experiment before doing it.

God is a jerk in the OT! He banishes Adam and Eve, smites people, fire and brimstone, earthquakes, floods, etc. But God is all knowing right? So why doesn't he understand? And why is he so angry?

Simple example one of the reasons (out of 1 million) i walked away:

Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!
Exodus 20:13
“You shall not murder."

You don't see a problem with the 2 verses above? do you parrot? Remember , be obedient! start getting blessed! why don't you? and see where you end up...i dare you to find the context of this verse.
The first reference to arrogance was about ME, but in your usual anger, you edit poorly.
The second reference to arrogance was to people in general who behave as described.
The rest of your gibberish is, as usual, you trying to explain God from your very limited human pov.
 

chelseacarlton

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I'm glad you stuck it out and watched all of it.
It was boring, christians are bloody boring, arrogant and mostly stupid in regards to their stupid beliefs,
“Jesus this, god that, blah blah blah”
Show me the ******* evidence either of them ever existed, then we can talk.
 

Evolved1

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1. God is offended by those who stray, and ridicule, and He exists.
2. At what stage? That's a very open-ended question. It is not always the parent who needs to say sorry. It can be up to the child to see the light.
3. Ridiculous. Again, trying to compare a mere man with God when it comes to anything, including parenting, is a farce. And I thought you said God does not exist??
1. Why would god be offended by my actions? I regularly find beheaded mice around my home yet that doesn't offend me because it's natural behaviour for cats to torture and kill mice.
2. Fair enough. Children are often in the wrong. Ultimate responsibility rests with the parent to take care of their children irrespective of who is at fault. The parent chose to have children while the children didn't choose to be born.
3. If your god is perfect, his parenting credentials should stack up well against anyone. Even though you're not perfect, you wouldn't torture your children in a lake of fire. Most people are better than god. I know I am.
 

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Vdubs

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If a god/gods/deities are able to get offended, they are not gods, end of story.
As I said, stupid beliefs are stupid!
Again, this is you airing superiority to God which is not stupid, but outrageous.
If you have no belief at all in a Creator of mankind, why are you asking Christians questions, or rather metaphorically, trying to shoot them down?
Glad you keep asking because although you broadcast anger and derision, it suggests you are still searching, which is good
 

Evolved1

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Again, this is you airing superiority to God which is not stupid, but outrageous.
If you have no belief at all in a Creator of mankind, why are you asking Christians questions, or rather metaphorically, trying to shoot them down?
Glad you keep asking because although you broadcast anger and derision, it suggests you are still searching, which is good
Threads on the SRP show a similar pattern, in that those devoted to political figures and religions generally attract critics. You've misread the room if you think we're searching.
 

chelseacarlton

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Again, this is you airing superiority to God which is not stupid, but outrageous.
If you have no belief at all in a Creator of mankind, why are you asking Christians questions, or rather metaphorically, trying to shoot them down?
Glad you keep asking because although you broadcast anger and derision, it suggests you are still searching, which is good
I am superior to your imaginary god and everyone that isn’t a moron is superior, here is the greatest testament to the glory that your disgraceful god existing is evil....enjoy god boi!!!!!
Watch it and reap your pathetic little god biatch....sing it Tracie
 

Total Power

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All I see is anger at words in the OT . You should edit this post dramatically. Line 1, last paragraph.
lol i am angry? fancy cursing his whole creation cause 2 people pissed him off. Fancy drowning the whole creation cause you know, people sin cause of the curse, then....fancy killing children cause the children called someone bald...and i am angry? Fancy killing an entire tribe, cattles, animals any living thing included cause god didn't get what he wanted with his own creation worshipping him (how ironic for omnipotence). Fancy killing all the children in the country cause god was pissed off with one man....and i am angry?

You either have a great sense of humour or you don't understand irony.
 

Total Power

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The first reference to arrogance was about ME, but in your usual anger, you edit poorly.
The second reference to arrogance was to people in general who behave as described.
The rest of your gibberish is, as usual, you trying to explain God from your very limited human pov.
Don't you love it when the 'mysterious ways' argument is thrown in there, usually means "you are right, this is terrible, but god works in mysterious ways'. Hahahaha so predictable.

You called others arrogant cause they chose NOT to believe in your God who is a dick! this is not up for debate, even you know this is true.

We are humans, we explain from our point of view, which includes you too. You as a human assume God is good, despite evidence pointing to the contrary. So what is 'good' to you?? i keep asking and you keep dodging. A right to create doesn't mean the right to kill. I am the owner of my dog, i don't have the right to kill my dog, cause i love my dog, unconditionally. That's real love, your version of incestual love, is not actual love, it's pure trickery. Are you sure your God is not Satan?

I have been asking you the question about what makes God good, you are unable to come up with an answer. Your assumption is God is good, then how do you explain God raping murdering and killing children? A rapist who accepts Jesus into their heart can go to heaven. But an atheist who found the cure for cancer will go to hell.

I mean the OT god was all about getting rid of rotten apples or anyone likely to poison the well so to speak. He supposedly kills anyone that deliberately defies him. There’s no shortage of his attempts at purifying his chosen people.i Not all of the Bible paints God in a positive light either. He kills millions for slights that we wouldn't even jail a person for, including the NT.

As i said, you either have a great sense of humour of you don't understand irony (in this case gibberish. Thou shall not kill..nek minit, stone the homosexual LOL).

It's not looking good for you. You keep saying god god god, first, even if there is a God, the likelihood of your version existing is next to none.

Your lack of argument, outside of calling me names is the proof, you have lost the argument, you haven't ordered a single scriptural defense for your argument, not even one! All i see is massive fail and tele-evangilism. That's all you do.

There isn’t much of an argument in your post as always, but it does show a clear lack of understanding on what morality is, especially moral systems; or even a philosophical concept of ethics. You clearly lack the philosophical depth, you are just a parrot. Your mate Indo, offers 100 times than you, despite being a YEC.


"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

―Marcus Aurelius
 
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Total Power

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I wouldn't bother if they are getting flat out rude to you there #vdubs. It's getting a bit pearls before swine in here.
He has been asking for it for a while. Putting words in peoples mouth, flat out denying things he said 2 pages ago, he is doing it all the time. Apparently we are all searching for a Christian God. How is that not putting words in peoples mouth? Those of us who have escaped organised religion , why on earth do we want to go back to it? but according to him, we must orelse...

It's frustrating trying to debate a fundamentalist like him. Almost presents no scriptural argument, just your usual tele-evanglical arguments i get in central London almost every week, without fail. We are here to debate, not to convince anyone. I for one is not looking to convince that he is deluded, despite overwhelming evidence. Do you really believe 5.5 billion people are going to hell for not accepting Jesus? how moronic could your faith be to believe in such nonsense? i don't even know any Christian who believes in such nonsense.
 

Total Power

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Christians are sinners, humans; we all are. God is perfection. Jesus was the only ever perfect sinless man that existed.

Perfection personified:


“If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.” (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Or

“If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)


Lmao what the hell. Imagine if this was the actual law. Epstein and Trump would be married to underage women.

But I suppose somewhere in the bible there's a verse promoting pedophilia as well with all the other garbage. How can people read the bible and still believe. It's "gods word" .

Totally not written by people thousands of years ago when women were little better than slaves.
 
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samoodan

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Perfection personified:


“If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.” (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Or

“If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)


Lmao what the hell. Imagine if this was the actual law. Epstein and Trump would be married to underage women.

But I suppose somewhere in the bible there's a verse promoting pedophilia as well with all the other garbage. How can people read the bible and still believe. It's "gods word" .

Totally not written by people thousands of years ago when women were little better than slaves.
It's a book written by people 3000 plus years ago. Particularly Deuteronomy reflects some ancient values of an ancient people. You have to read that in context. It is not a green light for stoning and raping in the current day, read with a little discernment.

Stories that old can hardly be compared with anything else, just because they don't exist. That's why the old testament is great - it is the link to the stories of our ancient ancestors.

If your main beef is with the bible, then don't worry about it. It is of course a very important book to Christians, but it is by no means the only book. Have a crack at a bit of christian mysticism. Less dogma, more east meets west meditation/prayer used to tap into the transcendental God.
 

samoodan

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He has been asking for it for a while. Putting words in peoples mouth, flat out denying things he said 2 pages ago, he is doing it all the time. Apparently we are all searching for a Christian God. How is that not putting words in peoples mouth? Those of us who have escaped organised religion , why on earth do we want to go back to it? but according to him, we must orelse...

It's frustrating trying to debate a fundamentalist like him. Almost presents no scriptural argument, just your usual tele-evanglical arguments i get in central London almost every week, without fail. We are here to debate, not to convince anyone. I for one is not looking to convince that he is deluded, despite overwhelming evidence. Do you really believe 5.5 billion people are going to hell for not accepting Jesus? how moronic could your faith be to believe in such nonsense? i don't even know any Christian who believes in such nonsense.
That's fine, but a few posters get a bit out of line I think.

How's London going? Are you out and about yet? I did the working holiday visa there about 20 years ago and my mind boggles at the idea of keeping a city that big contained for months and months.
 

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