Breaking tackles. The new swervability.
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Analysis Assessing the Midfield
- Thread starter Dylan82
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We rely on open play because without a fit and firing NN we suck at contested ball at stoppages.
Kelly will help that but man someone like SPP would of been nice to back him up.
We are all class and no grunt.
It’s not like Richmond’s players are all bulls like SPP though. Even little tip rat Liam Baker seems a better loose ball winner than most our best 22.
They seem to have selected a squad with natural ability to break tackles, plus because the whole side prioritises that chaos/dirty ball mentality, they’re always expecting it.
For our guys it seems like a secondary consideration. Clean ball movement and marking is always foremost in our minds so they’re just not primed to beat tacklers (or tackle) when the ball is in dispute.
Our mids need to be able to flip the switch more consistently, but that doesn’t bode well for Sheed.
They seem to have selected a squad with natural ability to break tackles, plus because the whole side prioritises that chaos/dirty ball mentality, they’re always expecting it.
For our guys it seems like a secondary consideration. Clean ball movement and marking is always foremost in our minds so they’re just not primed to beat tacklers (or tackle) when the ball is in dispute.
Our mids need to be able to flip the switch more consistently, but that doesn’t bode well for Sheed.
We did it pretty well in the finals series last year. Problem is that our best footy without Nic requires all our inside mids to be firing simultaneously - Yeo was a beast, Shuey won a Norm Smith, Sheed was racking it up at will and Redden was our Player of the Finals.
If one of those blokes is off, our chances of winning against a good side drop significantly. They need some support.
Pushing lawnmovers over preseason should help our players develop a core
In all seriousness they need to lift their game with the contested posession. We have been saying this for half a decade.
I wouldnt mind seeing more campaigner in them on the field too. Too many players seem way too nice on the field.
I wouldnt mind seeing more campaigner in them on the field too. Too many players seem way too nice on the field.
So what's the record margin in the Grand Final?
We have had a similar game plan for the last 2 years so i back Simmo to make and adjustment next year. Clearly it was identified during the finals last year and we upped our contested work massively so we know the squad has it in them.
If we swap out masten for Kelly, and reposition some other players to take up the wing spot, the upgrade alone in contested touches will be massive, if we don’t lose the work masten did
Him and kelly and we b2b2b2b2b
Thats an 05/06 midfield right there with a better forwardline
And no i wont stop - its mine and i can wash it as fast as i like
2019 Post Season Update
- Thread starter
- #215
2019 Post Season update.
Top 50 players for the 2019 season according to this means of ranking (minimum 5 games played):
Top 50 midfield rankings 2019: note once again the highest ranked player is also the Brownlow medallist (since 2010 only twice has that year's medallist placed outside of the top three rankings).
Yeo placing at #2 is the highest rank of an Eagle since Judd being ranked top in 2007.
Shuey consolidates his top 10 rank from 2018 with another this year.
Sheed breaks inside the top 20 with a career best season.
Gaff attains a place inside the top 50 for the first time in his career.
As you can see also, current trading target T.Kelly is ranked #11, a significant improvement from his #38 from 2018.
West Coast are the only club in the competition to have three players ranked inside the top 20.
When compared to the rest of the competition, it becomes apparent just how much quality our midfield now has at its disposal:
We have apparently the best ranked midfield yet were also last for contested possessions this season. Something clearly isn't adding up.
Here is the list of club midfield rankings for the 2019 season:
This is an image of frustration. The club may well have the greatest amount of top tier midfielders in the competition, yet has no depth at all to support them.
This time last year only two of the above rankings were outside of 300; now it is 8. That is the explanation for the season right there.
Conversely, let's have a look at this season's premiers:
The profile here is completely different. There are numbers throughout the squad that are capable of providing an impact to the midfield.
Indeed, if we take this further it can be seen that the club is dead last in this area when compared to the rest of the competition:
This season cannot be judged anything other than a missed opportunity.
The midfield had enough quality, but were unable to be supported adequately by the rest of the team.
The evidence when taken together suggests there is potentially something far greater than midfield improvement which needs addressing.
Obviously the procurement of another top-level player such as T.Kelly will enhance midfield output, but unless underlying issues in regard to gameday structure are corrected, I feel the deficiencies identified here will remain and once again limit the team's performance.
Top 50 players for the 2019 season according to this means of ranking (minimum 5 games played):
Top 50 midfield rankings 2019: note once again the highest ranked player is also the Brownlow medallist (since 2010 only twice has that year's medallist placed outside of the top three rankings).
Yeo placing at #2 is the highest rank of an Eagle since Judd being ranked top in 2007.
Shuey consolidates his top 10 rank from 2018 with another this year.
Sheed breaks inside the top 20 with a career best season.
Gaff attains a place inside the top 50 for the first time in his career.
As you can see also, current trading target T.Kelly is ranked #11, a significant improvement from his #38 from 2018.
West Coast are the only club in the competition to have three players ranked inside the top 20.
When compared to the rest of the competition, it becomes apparent just how much quality our midfield now has at its disposal:
Club midfield rankings comparison: Top 4 players, post trade period 2018 and post season 2019. Note West Coast is a standout #1 here, ahead of the Bulldogs and GWS.
We have apparently the best ranked midfield yet were also last for contested possessions this season. Something clearly isn't adding up.
Here is the list of club midfield rankings for the 2019 season:
West Coast Eagles midfield rankings 2019: note the improvement from the top tier then a precipitous fall in quality thereafter, particularly from 8th onward.
This is an image of frustration. The club may well have the greatest amount of top tier midfielders in the competition, yet has no depth at all to support them.
This time last year only two of the above rankings were outside of 300; now it is 8. That is the explanation for the season right there.
Conversely, let's have a look at this season's premiers:
Richmond midfield rankings 2019: note every single player here is ranked inside the top 300.
The profile here is completely different. There are numbers throughout the squad that are capable of providing an impact to the midfield.
Indeed, if we take this further it can be seen that the club is dead last in this area when compared to the rest of the competition:
Competition midfield rankings 2019: note the significant drop in quality by West Coast at an earlier stage than their rivals.
This season cannot be judged anything other than a missed opportunity.
The midfield had enough quality, but were unable to be supported adequately by the rest of the team.
The evidence when taken together suggests there is potentially something far greater than midfield improvement which needs addressing.
Obviously the procurement of another top-level player such as T.Kelly will enhance midfield output, but unless underlying issues in regard to gameday structure are corrected, I feel the deficiencies identified here will remain and once again limit the team's performance.
Further notes:
- refer to the OP for the method of ranking calculation.
- this method is far from perfect, but allows an "apples-for-apples" comparison with previous seasons going back to 2005.
- There is a more comprehensive ranking system that covers other positions in addition to midfielders available within the Squad Selection & Ratings resource.
- I will post a further update after the trading period is concluded.
Even with the clear talent in our midfield we still play reactive and defensive. The reason being that we don't bat deep and still rely on taggers. Opposition teams have figured out you just break even with our stars and use your second string mids to do the damage because outside of our core starting group its just taggers and fillers.
We literally only have 5 actual primary mids in our best 22. After that is Hutchings and Masten (Rip). Many of the other top teams are running like 8.
God damn we need a fit NN and Kelly to give us our 6 and 7 mids. It's also why I am interested in SPP. We need mids decent mids who can fill a rotation.
Last edited:
Email that assessment to the wce coaching staff.
Except Petch breaks out, sees open space and has a brain fart!
Am sure they'll be working on that this preseason..a few things that need working on!
Is that a woody he's swinging?
Reckon we need two new good mids, Kelly and another on the pine.
Hutch to the Wafl!
Which players are in the quality drop-off zone mentioned by Dylan?
Masten, Hutch, Cole, Duggan, Nelson, Petch...?
Oscar and Cameron to improve surely, and Waterman?
Venables back, could be an improver.
Could AhChee improve this preseason..or has he plateaued in Wafl?
Interesting to see Tigers 2 players at 9 and 21 in the best 50, with Dusty at 21!?
Hutch to the Wafl!
Which players are in the quality drop-off zone mentioned by Dylan?
Masten, Hutch, Cole, Duggan, Nelson, Petch...?
Oscar and Cameron to improve surely, and Waterman?
Venables back, could be an improver.
Could AhChee improve this preseason..or has he plateaued in Wafl?
Interesting to see Tigers 2 players at 9 and 21 in the best 50, with Dusty at 21!?
The_Gambler
Club Legend
Venables has to go to inside mid now. With Ryan, Rioli/Cameron, Cripps +/- Pettrucelle, he's last is spot as semi permanent defensive half forward. Needs to go inside mid resting forward. First round draft pick time to unleash or disover whether he can make it or not. Can't tell me he wouldn't be damaging roving over NicNat, or any worse than Redden, Gaff or Hutchings in there
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I think just getting Venables playing anywhere next year is more of a priority tbh. Doubt we'll throw him into an inside mid role next season.
Great post.
My view is that we lack contested ball winners in the forward and back lines to supplement good midfielders. This would explain why we're a decent clearance side (6th in the league) but dead last for contested possessions. Interestingly, we were 11th in both stats in 2018 - so it would seem that the problem this year wasn't necessarily with the midfield group.
That's the unfortunate trade off when we play guys like Petch, Jetta, Waterman, Cameron and Ryan, and select teams that are almost always taller than our opponents. Those players are probably never going to be good ball winners, so to some extent we're stuck with the cattle we've got.
In terms of personnel, I'd like to see us play less talls (I'd prefer never to see a forward line with Kennedy-Darling-Allen-Waterman again) as a start.
I'd like to see Venables and/or Ah Chee getting another crack as a high half forward, as they have flashed the ability to win contested footy in the forward line. I'd like to see Duggan back in the team as he can help address this down back.
I wonder whether it's also an instructional issue. I don't have any stats or footage to back it up but I feel like many of our players are inclined to run forward of the contest to create easy scoring opportunities if the ball is won, rather than run toward the ball to ensure that it is won.
Sensational analysis, i think we're really getting close to the crux of our midfield issues.
Is it time to forgo the 7 def, 7 fwd, 2 ruck and 6 mids system that worked so well in 2018?
I believe that Kelly, Yeo and Shuey could all be brilliant rotating through the forward line. Sheed has done very well floating forward to slot some goals but I don't view him as a natural fwd, more a mid with a deadly left boot.
With this in mind, I think the system should be 7 def, 6 fwd, 7 mid, 2 ruck.
7 mids:
--- Shuey. 2/3 mid 1/3 fwd
--- Kelly. 2/3 mid 1/3 fwd
--- Yeo. complete mid
--- Gaff outside mid
--- Redden mid
--- Sheed mid
--- Venables 2/3 mid 1/3 fwd
Venners is an interesting one. I think he should be given first crack at a mid spot after a full pre season. Maybe Ainsworth or Brayshaw or even ONeil, this should be a WAFL form earnt spot
I believe that Kelly, Yeo and Shuey could all be brilliant rotating through the forward line. Sheed has done very well floating forward to slot some goals but I don't view him as a natural fwd, more a mid with a deadly left boot.
With this in mind, I think the system should be 7 def, 6 fwd, 7 mid, 2 ruck.
7 mids:
--- Shuey. 2/3 mid 1/3 fwd
--- Kelly. 2/3 mid 1/3 fwd
--- Yeo. complete mid
--- Gaff outside mid
--- Redden mid
--- Sheed mid
--- Venables 2/3 mid 1/3 fwd
Venners is an interesting one. I think he should be given first crack at a mid spot after a full pre season. Maybe Ainsworth or Brayshaw or even ONeil, this should be a WAFL form earnt spot
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