Politics Aussie Fascists and (neo)Nazis

[Malifice]

Yep, altho I would "black" isn't an ethnicity the way "German/Aryan" was in Hitler's use of the word

Mate, race is a social construct. The lines of demarcation always change depending on who you're asking.

One of the main reasons Garvey, the NoI and other black nationalists favoured black nationalism is because it provides them with a safe haven from oppression not because of inherently racist attitudes. Don't forget how ****ed the western world was for black people in those times. It was a disgraceful situation.

I'm not exploring the 'why's' of why they were ethnic nationalists.

I'm only saying they were ethnic nationalists (Malcom X did eventually recant and moved towards integration though).

David Duke would totally support the notion of each 'race' living in its own areas, governed by its own members. Because he's an ethnic nationalist. Malcom X would have agreed with him on this point (in his NOI days).

The why's might be different, but they both desired the same thing.

Black seperatism may have led to some bad situations if it had occurred

It did occur to a limited degree.

Liberia - Wikipedia

It did not end well.

 

[ferball]

Mate, race is a social construct. The lines of demarcation always change depending on who you're asking.

Black and white are European constructions. In Africa people refer to their actual heritage using the traditional names of their people. One of the real issues with "white" as a construct is it denies Europeans their actual cultural heritage (ie Irish, Scandanavian or whatever) and replaces it all with a concept that's easy to manipulate.

I'm not exploring the 'why's' of why they were ethnic nationalists.

I'm only saying they were ethnic nationalists (Malcom X did eventually recant and moved towards integration though).

Yeah he did, as he was exposed to "white" Americans who supported a fair go for all people regardless of their skin shade. And we all mellow with age and experience.

David Duke would totally support the notion of each 'race' living in its own areas, governed by its own members. Because he's an ethnic nationalist. Malcom X would have agreed with him on this point (in his NOI days).

The why's might be different, but they both desired the same thing.

Yeah but I think its important to understand the context in that situation. X would have supported the idea so he could be free from people like David Duke.

It did occur to a limited degree.

Liberia - Wikipedia

It did not end well.

Its a complex situation in Liberia, well all of Africa and it was all tied up with colonialism and exploitation of resources. It could be argued that a truly independent black nation in Africa wouldn't have had the same issues because it wouldn't have been dependent on the West for investment and other resources, that's an argument many black nationalists made. Whether it would have happened remains to be seen. When Liberia was colonised by freed slaves and for the next 80 years of its existence most of the Western world didn't have proper workers rights and protections. The US certainly didn't (and still doesn't.)

 

[Malifice]

Black and white are European constructions. In Africa people refer to their actual heritage using the traditional names of their people. One of the real issues with "white" as a construct is it denies Europeans their actual cultural heritage (ie Irish, Scandanavian or whatever) and replaces it all with a concept that's easy to manipulate.

I dont disagree. I don't view myself as 'white' despite having a heritage almost soley from the British Isles (Germanic, Celtic).

It's all a social construct though. Every 'race' is socially constructed. The meanings and membership fluctuate with time and perspective.

Yeah he did, as he was exposed to "white" Americans who supported a fair go for all people regardless of their skin shade. And we all mellow with age and experience.

I find the opposite to be true. People often become more conservative with age, not less.

Yeah but I think its important to understand the context in that situation. X would have supported the idea so he could be free from people like David Duke.

And Duke would have supported the idea so he could be free of people like Malcom X.

Its a complex situation in Liberia, well all of Africa and it was all tied up with colonialism and exploitation of resources.

I acknowledge European colonialism has played a massive part in Africa being continent full of shithole banana Republics.

But Africans themselves have to take some responsibility. The Congo is literally the world's richest country by resources, but it's tied up in an ethnic conflict (yes, the Belgians definitely contributed there) with Warlords and corruption tearing it apart. No one gives a s**t about getting in power for the good of other citizens. They just want power for powers sake.

You might not like this very much, but the Africans need to stop pointing the finger at Europeans and sort their own s**t out.

Id love nothing more than for a stable liberal republic to form in Africa, but it's always more of the same old same old.

 

[ferball]

I dont disagree. I don't view myself as 'white' despite having a heritage almost soley from the British Isles (Germanic, Celtic).

It's all a social construct though. Every 'race' is socially constructed. The meanings and membership fluctuate with time and perspective.



I find the opposite to be true. People often become more conservative with age, not less.

They're not mutually exclusive. Young people are more strident but experience provides perspective, then as you age more you are more likely to have alot more invested in the status quo.

And Duke would have supported the idea so he could be free of people like Malcom X.

Free from and free of... its an important difference.

I acknowledge European colonialism has played a massive part in Africa being continent full of shithole banana Republics.

Its not just colonialism. Its the ongoing proxy wars between the West and USSR and now between China and the West. Its a chaotic situation and they need some clear air.

But Africans themselves have to take some responsibility. The Congo is literally the world's richest country by resources, but it's tied up in an ethnic conflict (yes, the Belgians definitely contributed there) with Warlords and corruption tearing it apart. No one gives a s**t about getting in power for the good of other citizens. They just want power for powers sake.

yeah unfortunately that's not just an African problem. I think its happening in the West alot more as well. I think both sides of Australian politics are of that mindset, the Libs more so tho. In the US no one seems to give a s**t about the greater good, they all pay lip service to it and make millions once they're elected. The Uk... *, even the rest of Europe seems to be following suit.

You might not like this very much, but the Africans need to stop pointing the finger at Europeans and sort their own s**t out.

Id love nothing more than for a stable liberal republic to form in Africa, but it's always more of the same old same old.

Its not just Europeans, the US, China and increasingly India are messing around chasing resources. Like it or not Gaddafi was one of the best leaders Africa has seen in terms of transforming his people's lives. Libya was one of the poorest nations on Earth and Gaddafi made it tthe richest nation in Africa. Some of his public works changed the nation forever in terms of access to water etc.

The place has gone backwards since his death in a the worst possible way.

This isn't an endorsement of gaddafi either. He was a jerk. But what he did with his power wasn't just self centred and evil.

 

[burge13]

I dont disagree. I don't view myself as 'white' despite having a heritage almost soley from the British Isles (Germanic, Celtic).

It's all a social construct though.

Society is really going off the deep end with self identification nonsense

I don't view myself as despite, despite being white. What are we doing here

 

[Mofra]

Society is really going off the deep end with self identification nonsense

I don't view myself as despite, despite being white. What are we doing here

My jokes sometimes fall flat but I identify as funny

 

[Malifice]

Free from and free of... its an important difference.

You honestly think Black nationalists like Farrakhan (who headed the NOI) for years are not Black supremacists?

The dude is literally on the ADLs website as a noted racist and antisemite.

He was Malcolm X's mentor and leader and was implicated in his murder when X recanted his Black nationalism and moved towards integration of the sort promoted by Luther King.

The only thing that separates Black nationalists from White nationalists is one has a history of oppressing the other. Notwithstanding their reasons for their desires, they both still desire the same thing.

Its similar to how Neo Nazis and ISIS fundies are virtually identical, even though to an outsider they seem worlds apart. Both are reactionary, conservative, anti feminist and anti LGBTI, traditionalist, prone to extreme violence, believe in an 'existential threat' where 'Islam is at war with the West and our values are being degraded' and both sides ultimately blame the Jews for it all.

If they both stopped and sat down for a chat, they'd probably get along just fine.

yeah unfortunately that's not just an African problem. I think its happening in the West alot more as well. I think both sides of Australian politics are of that mindset, the Libs more so tho.

I wholly disagree. I have zero doubt that Albo isnt in the caper for any other reason than the good of the Australian people, and as much as I loathe him, the same can be said for Dutton and Morrison as well. Turnbull didnt take a penny of money from his time in office, already being a billionaire.

Same deal with many in the US (although its definitely more of a rort over there). Arnold Schwarzenegger wasn't exactly lacking for money when he became Governor of California. Like him or not, he got involved because he genuinely gave a s**t about Californians and how things were being run.

Sadly, Arnie is a bit of an outlier these days, and Republicans have all turned to blatant grift.

But there are still some that care.

 

[Malifice]

Society is really going off the deep end with self identification nonsense

What? No, I'm talking science. 'Race' is a social construct.

I don't view myself as white despite, despite being white.

I'm ethnically mostly Germanic and Celtic (likely a combination of many different ethnicities, namely Angle, Pict, Saxon, Norman, Celt etc). Probably with a bit of Roman or even Spanish thrown in there (having regards to the history of the British Isles).

'White' is silly as an ethnic grouping. I don't know of any 'white skinned' ethnic group that identified itself as such, just like in Africa 'black' is not an ethnic group (there are literally thousands of different ethnicities in Africa).

Things get a bit different in places like the States where people have lost knowledge of their ethnic group so 'white American' or 'black American' or 'Latino American' are used as ethnicities (even though each of those ethnicities covers combinations of literally thousands of other ethnicities; Latino means 'from South of the Border, and likely some combination of Inca/ Maya/ Aztec and Portuguese/ Spanish or other European').

Race is a social construct, not a biological one. It has an accepted social meaning, agreed on by consensus with general (and arbitrary) lines of demarcation applied, that varies across time and location.

 

[ferball]

You honestly think Black nationalists like Farrakhan (who headed the NOI) for years are not Black supremacists?

The dude is literally on the ADLs website as a noted racist and antisemite.

He was Malcolm X's mentor and leader and was implicated in his murder when X recanted his Black nationalism and moved towards integration of the sort promoted by Luther King.

He's a lunatic but he's trying to maintain an organisation that has little relevance (and his own power) at the expense of his people.

The only thing that separates Black nationalists from White nationalists is one has a history of oppressing the other. Notwithstanding their reasons for their desires, they both still desire the same thing.

Yeah that's my point. Its a pretty important point and most likely a foundational one in terms of black nationalism. IE If black people hadn't been oppressed it wouldn't exist.

Its similar to how Neo Nazis and ISIS fundies are virtually identical, even though to an outsider they seem worlds apart. Both are reactionary, conservative, anti feminist and anti LGBTI, traditionalist, prone to extreme violence, believe in an 'existential threat' where 'Islam is at war with the West and our values are being degraded' and both sides ultimately blame the Jews for it all.

If they both stopped and sat down for a chat, they'd probably get along just fine.

Yes. Hassan Al-Banna loved Hitler.

I wholly disagree. I have zero doubt that Albo isnt in the caper for any other reason than the good of the Australian people, and as much as I loathe him, the same can be said for Dutton and Morrison as well. Turnbull didnt take a penny of money from his time in office, already being a billionaire.

Same deal with many in the US (although its definitely more of a rort over there). Arnold Schwarzenegger wasn't exactly lacking for money when he became Governor of California. Like him or not, he got involved because he genuinely gave a s**t about Californians and how things were being run.

Sadly, Arnie is a bit of an outlier these days, and Republicans have all turned to blatant grift.

But there are still some that care.

Yeah maybe.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

How trustworthy are Far Right allegations of crime committed by migrants?

Far-right agitator spread lies that girl (7) had been ‘gang-raped’ by migrants in Celbridge

A far-right agitator named in the Dáil as an ‘inciter’ of the Dublin riots spread the false claim that a seven-year-old girl had been ‘gang-raped’ by immigrants — sparking angry protests outside a refugee centre.

www.independent.ie

Threats to burn down hotel after false post from Fergus Power says girl was raped by immigrants

A far-right agitator named in the Dáil as an ‘inciter’ of the Dublin riots spread the false claim that a seven-year-old girl had been ‘gang-raped’ by immigrants — sparking angry protests outside a refugee centre.

Fergus Power posted the false claims on social media platform X on Tuesday, several hours before a large crowd gathered outside Celbridge Manor chanting ‘paedophiles out’ and making threats to burn the building down.

During the protest, gardai were verbally abused while also being targeted with fireworks and other missiles.
In the ‘fake’ post headlined ‘Major Incident Celbridge’, Power claimed: “Hearing reports of a 7-year-old migrant girl who was allegedly raped by three Roma men on the grounds of this hotel.

Fergus Power was named in the Dail as having incited the Dublin riots
“The police have tried to cover it up allegedly going so far as to have the child taken to hospital by taxi instead of an ambulance so as not to bring any attention…”

The post continued: “Police, MSM [mainstream media] and the monsters in this government will not want this story getting out. They actively try cover them up and have been doing for months and months now to keep their seedy money-making scheme and agenda up...”

DEATH TO THE FAR RIGHT

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Alleged murderer of Samantha Murphy apparently is or was part of Sewell and Hersants little crew. Was apparently there that weekend they were throwing Seig Heils and assaulting hikers in the Grampians. *Just to be clear, I’m passing on something I’ve been told.

 

[Malifice]

Alleged murderer of Samantha Murphy is or was part of Sewell and Hersants little crew. Was there that weekend they were throwing Seig Heils and assaulting hikers in the Grampians

Source?

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Source?

No news sources, was just told by mates who track these people closer than anyone bar ASIO probably do.

 

[Malifice]

No news sources, was just told by mates who track these people closer than anyone bar ASIO probably do.

The whole thing seems so weird. No motive or anything disclosed, yet he's abducted and murdered this woman for shits and giggles? Psychosis perhaps.

Stranger attacks like this are incredibly rare.

That poor woman.

 

[kickazz]

Prosecutors seek jail over 'terrifying' neo-Nazi attack on Victorian hikers

Prosecutors are seeking jail time for Thomas Sewell and Jacob Hersant, who were among 25 men who attacked six hikers in 2021.

www.abc.net.au

So the judge recons that Sewel has suffered enough during half a year in prison and that a stronger sentence is not warranted.

I'll admit I'm not across the severity of the violent attack, perhaps I could be convinced he has done enough time, but I'm very duboius.

This should be a slam dunk for a judge - the guy has no remorse and will likely actively espouse that what he did was justified and encourage it to happen again. This isn't someone getting violent in a moment of anger or something like that - it's ingrained, pre-meditated and our judicial system seems to not give a *.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Maybe a deeper dive into the political leanings of this judge is warranted?

 

[Gralin]

They're not what are system is setup for

 

[phantom13]

The whole thing seems so weird. No motive or anything disclosed, yet he's abducted and murdered this woman for shits and giggles? Psychosis perhaps.

Stranger attacks like this are incredibly rare.

That poor woman.

Have they said she was abducted?

I honestly assumed it was some sort of runner/car road rage incident and he’s dumped the body after the fact.

It’s absolutely horrific either way I just didn’t know if ANY details of the hiw and why had been released