Politics Aussie Fascists, (neo)Nazis and Leg Spinners

[spinynorman]

You find the notions of anti-censorship and no bullets challenging enough to reply with insults based on nothing except your own biases ? Read some history before you push the notion that there is any difference between fascists on the left and fascists on the right. left right left right - jack boots are jackboots - not rocket science to figure that out.

Fascists on the left. I am a serious political thinker.

 

[Gralin]

It appears that you are a utopian idiot.

Did you vote Green in the last election, if not, they would welcome you with open arms.

It's funny because Labor and the coalition are both happy for the NSN to bumble around and create noise so they can use that to legislate away our rights

And you're worried about the greens for some reason

Like NSW is now talking about more laws even though the NSN rally on Parliament house steps could have been blocked under the new ones they already passed

 

[bourbons]

The problem with your view isnt your opinion about why a certain group shouldn't be allowed to run for Parliament - but the fact that you believe that someone shouldn't be allowed to run for Parliament. There is much more to be gained by having people expose themselves and their views as well as their supporters - than force them into hiding.

The TLDR version of what I am saying is very simple really - I want to know who my enemy is.

I guess the question would be what further information would you be privy to by them forming a party and running for parliament that you aren't aware of now?

Not exactly hiding their repulsive worldview and aims thus far, these people.

 

[JustaBattler]

Fascists on the left. I am a serious political thinker.

Ignorance is bliss mate.

 

[spinynorman]

Ignorance is bliss mate.

What do you think of right wing communists?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Ignorance is bliss mate.

A question - by 'fascists on the left' do you mean left-wing authoritarianism? Because authoritarianism definitely exists on the fringes of both left and right. Fascism specifically involves a brand of ethno-nationalism and associated out-group exclusions that the left even in its extremes do not cater to.

Class warfare exists on the left, but this is seen as those 'below' fighting the upper bourgeois privileged class rather than one 'master race' fighting a war of ethno-religious division and supremacy against so-called 'inferiors'.

 

[faible]

so you disagree with all of the below policies??

Environment and climate change

• Energy: Phase out coal and gas, invest in publicly owned renewable energy, and ban new fossil fuel projects and subsidies.
• Emissions: Legislate a 75% emissions cut by 2030 and net-zero by 2035.
• Conservation: End native forest logging, promote recycling and phasing out single-use plastics, and protect biodiversity.

Economy and social justice

• Taxation: Increase taxes on large corporations and the wealthiest to fund social services and reduce economic inequality.
• Education: Make public education, including tertiary education, free and provide assistance like "back-to-school" payments.
• Healthcare: Expand Medicare to include dental and mental health services.
• Social welfare: Raise the pension to above the poverty line, strengthen social services, and end poverty.
• Workers' rights: Defend workers' rights and lift wages.

Other key policies

• Democracy: Increase political integrity by banning fossil fuel donations and strengthening lobbying rules.
• Immigration: Support a permanent, equitable, and non-discriminatory migration program that prioritizes family reunion and humanitarian cases.
• Foreign policy: Advocate for peaceful foreign policies and renegotiate the AUKUS security pact.
• Animal welfare: Phase out live animal exports and improve animal welfare standards.
• Housing: Increase the supply of affordable homes.

If you removed party affiliation from policy platforms, I suspect a lot of people would find Green or even a further left part like Vic Socialist policies are what they like.

'Tax gas companies more (or well, anything) so that we can fully fund education' isn't exactly controversial.

 

[GrayRanga]

so you disagree with all of the below policies??

Environment and climate change

• Energy: Phase out coal and gas, invest in publicly owned renewable energy, and ban new fossil fuel projects and subsidies.
• Emissions: Legislate a 75% emissions cut by 2030 and net-zero by 2035.
• Conservation: End native forest logging, promote recycling and phasing out single-use plastics, and protect biodiversity.

Economy and social justice

• Taxation: Increase taxes on large corporations and the wealthiest to fund social services and reduce economic inequality.
• Education: Make public education, including tertiary education, free and provide assistance like "back-to-school" payments.
• Healthcare: Expand Medicare to include dental and mental health services.
• Social welfare: Raise the pension to above the poverty line, strengthen social services, and end poverty.
• Workers' rights: Defend workers' rights and lift wages.

Other key policies

• Democracy: Increase political integrity by banning fossil fuel donations and strengthening lobbying rules.
• Immigration: Support a permanent, equitable, and non-discriminatory migration program that prioritizes family reunion and humanitarian cases.
• Foreign policy: Advocate for peaceful foreign policies and renegotiate the AUKUS security pact.
• Animal welfare: Phase out live animal exports and improve animal welfare standards.
• Housing: Increase the supply of affordable homes.

These are all noble policies, but...

How do you convince the voter that the introduction of their policies is going to result in a better live for the average punter?

Whilst we can agree with them, let's put some costing behind them in the real world so that voters can make an educated decision

Every election I do the ABC's voting questionaire; I always end up to the Left of the Greens and less conservative.

Problem is that despite our local booth being a Labor/Greens booth (Labor significantly higher). the balance of the electorate is small business/tradey Liberal. It's a marginal seat on 2PP but to have an effect, you need to vote strategically. First preference has to go to Labor, the Greens have to convince the majority of voters that the Green's policies in hard monetary terms are better than Labor's for the Greens to become a valid alternative to the Labor

High faluting policies are good, but until the Greens win enought seats in the HoR to bring pressure onto the Party in Government. they're going to be yelling at clouds

Let's be pragmatic: in a democracy. to impliment your policies, you either have to win or have the winner have to rely on your votes

 

[Cyber_punk]

 

[Gralin]

We've got a thread to discuss the greens in

Let's keep this one on track please

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Heart skipped a beat there. Thought that was the same Cooper Stephens who played a handful of games for Geelong around the time of the COVID lockdowns and the Black Summer of 2019/2020.

Totally different nose!

 

[Cyber_punk]

---------​

bUt wE sHoUlD jUsT hEaR OuT aLl iDEaS!

This one was nabbed before he could escalate, but as we said, this shit was inevitable

​

Teen Nazi planned to livestream gas attack, police allege​

https://archive.is/5nCfH

A teenage boy allegedly plotted online with like-minded neo-Nazis to live stream a chemical attack, believing he was preparing Australia for a “nationalist and racial violence extremist” revolution.

The 17-year-old’s arrest comes amid increased scrutiny on the neo-Nazi movement in Australia, after a group of 60 black-clad men, calling itself White Australia and formerly the National Socialist Network, held a rally outside NSW Parliament on Saturday.
The Australian Federal Police’s counter terror squads, including ASIO, last week raided a home in the Canberra suburb of Downer. They were moving to disrupt what they now believe was a credible threat of terrorism posed by the teenager.

The boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was allegedly in the preparatory phase of an attack and gathering intelligence and equipment needed to harm other Australians.
Military clothing, an imitation gun, extremist writings and a gas mask were all seized.
A police document, read out in court at his bail hearing and seen by the Herald, alleged the boy had spoken with associates in encrypted channels about his plans.
“The young person had detailed plans on attacking a homeless person with chlorine gas due to his race and information obtained suggests he has taken steps to conduct tests related to the use of chlorine gas,” the document reads.


The boy’s associates, who were both in Australia and abroad, seemed to encourage the alleged plot. One advised the teenager to buy a GoPro camera.
“Livestream it privately, so they can’t take it down,” the associate said.
“I’m planning to do it at a Commie (communist) meeting or march,” the boy had said.Police say the boy had watched videos of

Australian Brenton Tarrant’s massacre in Christchurch, images of Nazi flags and Ku Klux Klan members. Tarrant flirted with the white nationalist movement and far right-extremism online, and even communicated with prominent neo-Nazi Thomas Sewell.
“Personally moving toward planning an attack has helped me. I used to be depressed, but now I have purpose,” he wrote to a contact.

The boy told police he disliked non-Celtic and non-Germanic people and allegedly said, “you should fight for your race”.

 

[JustaBattler]

A question - by 'fascists on the left' do you mean left-wing authoritarianism? Because authoritarianism definitely exists on the fringes of both left and right. Fascism specifically involves a brand of ethno-nationalism and associated out-group exclusions that the left even in its extremes do not cater to.

Class warfare exists on the left, but this is seen as those 'below' fighting the upper bourgeois privileged class rather than one 'master race' fighting a war of ethno-religious division and supremacy against so-called 'inferiors'.

yes I don't see any difference between self declared socialist dictators or dictators of the so called right - left right are labels that may have had some more relevance to a conversation decades ago- I think the value of these labels these days is pretty cheap currency - mainly just convenient insults hurled across political divides.

We have many examples of left and so called right slaughtering millions of people under the guise of ethnic cleansing or racial purity or class warfare or whatever was a convenient and available political mechanism to win and maintain power - and that is ignoring the religious zealots who have done just as badly if not more under the guise of religious imperatives.

I think it is convenient for current political structures to point the finger at a bunch of looney toon Nazis in Australia- that is a really easy deflection from other matters- less easily resolved - and of far greater future consequence than a bunch of goofy skinheads.

If it makes people feel better to have a common #1 enemy to point fingers at - and that enemy is an easy target - that suits the status quo quite nicely - I would think. It is all SOP for politics.

 

[JustaBattler]

What do you think of right wing communists?

I know a lot of them - they enjoy sipping chardonnay and collecting rents whilst babbling on about comrade this and comrad that.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

I attended the Shrine for Remembrance Day. The ever whining righteous were in attendance, as always.

You know the ones, true blue, dinkie die, Holden/ford driving Ozzie Patriots.

Wearing there all black ensemble, they as is their wont, turned their backs to the brief welcome to country and did the same to the Governor when she said the same.

Then did the same when the head of the multicultural society gave the keynote speech. How as a 12 year old fleeing Vietnam in a boat and became an Australian.

How during her sobs of gratitude she thanked Australia and the ADF for giving her and her family a wonderful life, they showed her nothing but contempt.

And when my mate and I stood to attention and saluted during the playing of the national anthem, they slouched around with hands in pockets and boredom on their faces.

So no, both sides aren’t the same, and they have expressed their views.

And **** them very much. I would happily see them proscribed, just like any other terrorist that wants to affect change through violent action or intimidation.

They predecessors lost in 1945, and we don’t give do overs.

I suspect that there would be a very high correlation between these numpties you referred to from yesterday to those who urinated and spat on the same Shrine of Remembrance during their anti-vacc, anti-lockdown cooker-fest back in 2021.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I know a lot of them - they enjoy sipping chardonnay and collecting rents whilst babbling on about comrade this and comrad that.

Capitalist landlords are communists now?

Can I have $50 of whatever you been smoking?

 

[B4Bear]

Neo-Nazi Thomas Sewell granted bail by Victorian judge

Neo Nazi Thomas Sewell had been granted bail after a Supreme Court judge found he would not pose an unacceptable risk to the community.

www.abc.net.au

This is who some here would see in parliament. A Nazi thug and criminal.

And he wasn’t alone, he, his supporters and their admirers do not deserve an legitimacy.

 

[JustaBattler]

Capitalist landlords are communists now?

Can I have $50 of whatever you been smoking?

Why not try and read what I wrote - for starters.

and btw- we have a Labor PM who is a landlord owning 5 'investment' properties. The average number for properties owned by every politician at State and Federal level is 2.5.

"Landlord' used to be an insult - now it is an aspirational imperative. The landlordification of Australia is a bi-partisan fact along with enshitifying everything to do with proper governance and rational government.

These are just plain facts - nothing controversial.

When >30% of the population is being squeezed for a basic - a roof over their head by both sides of politics - you are going to get all sorts of very bad outcomes and ride off the back of massive disenfranchisement of the body politic.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Why not try and read what I wrote - for starters.

and btw- we have a Labor PM who is a landlord owning 5 'investment' properties. The average number for properties owned by every politician at State and Federal level is 2.5.

"Landlord' used to be an insult - now it is an aspirational imperative. The landlordification of Australia is a bi-partisan fact along with enshitifying everything to do with proper governance and rational government.

These are just plain facts - nothing controversial.

When >30% of the population is being squeezed for a basic - a roof over their head by both sides of politics - you are going to get all sorts of very bad outcomes and ride off the back of massive disenfranchisement of the body politic.

Liberal and Labor are both on the same side of politics. They vote with each other about 95% of the time.

The other 5% ? That's what the mainstream media reports on.

 

[JustaBattler]

Liberal and Labor are both on the same side of politics. Thy vote with each other about 95% of the time.

so what do you think is going to be a 'natural' outcome of no choice?
of course you are going to have other people wishing to fill the void of lack of decent choice - that is how democracy is supposed to work.
2 party systems have been dying for decades- it is a slower death in Australia - but any government with a 35% primary vote- has no mandate.

nm - they can all retire on their special superannuation because they are all special talented people and then the senior ones can all get jobs at Macquarie Bank - or do business with the nice communists in China and take part in watching the maginificent display of teh might of China ..

FMD

 

[Ghost Patrol]

so what do you think is going to be a 'natural' outcome of no choice?
of course you are going to have other people wishing to fill the void of lack of decent choice - that is how democracy is supposed to work.
2 party systems have been dying for decades- it is a slower death in Australia - but any government with a 35% primary vote- has no mandate.

nm - they can all retire on their special superannuation because they are all special talented people and then the senior ones can all get jobs at Macquarie Bank - or do business with the nice communists in China and take part in watching the maginificent display of teh might of China ..

FMD

They have a mandate due to preferential voting. Yet, they are doing basically nothing.

Prefer China over USA at the moment tbh. Assume you prefer Trump's America?

 

[Cyber_punk]

Neo-Nazi Thomas Sewell granted bail by Victorian judge

Neo Nazi Thomas Sewell had been granted bail after a Supreme Court judge found he would not pose an unacceptable risk to the community.

www.abc.net.au

This is who some here would see in parliament. A Nazi thug and criminal.

And he wasn’t alone, he, his supporters and their admirers do not deserve an legitimacy.

Apparently his fiance works, or was working, with kids with disabilities. Terrifying.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

yes I don't see any difference between self declared socialist dictators or dictators of the so called right - left right are labels that may have had some more relevance to a conversation decades ago- I think the value of these labels these days is pretty cheap currency - mainly just convenient insults hurled across political divides.

We have many examples of left and so called right slaughtering millions of people under the guise of ethnic cleansing or racial purity or class warfare or whatever was a convenient and available political mechanism to win and maintain power - and that is ignoring the religious zealots who have done just as badly if not more under the guise of religious imperatives.

I think it is convenient for current political structures to point the finger at a bunch of looney toon Nazis in Australia- that is a really easy deflection from other matters- less easily resolved - and of far greater future consequence than a bunch of goofy skinheads.

If it makes people feel better to have a common #1 enemy to point fingers at - and that enemy is an easy target - that suits the status quo quite nicely - I would think. It is all SOP for politics.

I actually agree with your point about the convenience of labels and the evils some have wrought upon the world while wearing them.

You have to look at motivation though. The left, MY left, sees a common humanity where all are of equal worth regardless of colour or culture.

Collectively we make up the Nation we live in. Without the Collective, the Nation means nothing. Therefore it is up to the Nation as a socio-political structure to ensure the welfare of its Collective, NOT private for-profit interests.

No-one need die to achieve this.

The Right nominally seems to value the Individual over the Collective. Private enterprise advancing Individual interests matter more than the common good.

If I'm reading you right you're saying modern Australian politics has lost much of this distinction and only pays lip service to what are now in-name-only labels while putting the electorate under a cloudy grey murk.

'Cheap currency' indeed. Maybe getting back to basics is what is required?

 

[JustaBattler]

I actually agree with your point about the convenience of labels and the evils some have wrought upon the world while wearing them.

You have to look at motivation though. The left, MY left, sees a common humanity where all are of equal worth regardless of colour or culture.

Collectively we make up the Nation we live in. Without the Collective, the Nation means nothing. Therefore it is up to the Nation as a socio-political structure to ensure the welfare of its Collective, NOT private for-profit interests.

No-one need die to achieve this.

The Right nominally seems to value the Individual over the Collective. Private enterprise advancing Individual interests matter more than the common good.

If I'm reading you right you're saying modern Australian politics has lost much of this distinction and only pays lip service to what are now in-name-only labels while putting the electorate under a cloudy grey murk.

'Cheap currency' indeed. Maybe getting back to basics is what is required?

Getting back to basics is impossible without pulling the rug out of the landlord country Australia has become- it will happen - but is 3-5 years off still. In the meantime- enjoy watching more evidence of disaffected youth being pulled into more and more radicalised alternatives.

 

[Chief]

I'm sure you don't condone shooting people who are wanting to express their POV - that would be an untenable proposition for any civil society. Better to let bad ideas drown in their badness I think. Shine the light on stupidities and they wither- try and use censorship and they grow in little dark corners. I'm not a fan of the woke left or the woke right posturings - it is very difficult to have a civil conversation using rational language with either herd of idjots.

We don't tolerate intolerance. It's just the way it is.