Toast Australia Day 2017

[SMaturin]

It's only been around as a public holiday since the 90s. Shouldn't even require thinking music to change it.

 

[blackshadow]

Personally, I don't think we should be celebrating a day as 'Australia day' as it alienates many of the traditional land owners.

I disagree quite strongly with this assertion, it only alienates those who want to be alienated and to show their indignation. The only people who are alienated are those that propagate the black arm band view of history - personally I believe that there have been a lot more positives to life in Australia post 1788 than those who take the dim view that life post 1788 is nothing more than oppression, genocide and imperial domination.

Noone of can re-write history or undo the mistakes made in the past (many horrific) but the best thing all Australians can do is move forward together as a respectful, multi-cultural society and part of that is the celebration of modern Australia as a nation, it doesn't take away from the pre 1788 history. Jan 26 should stay.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

Nah you can burn it,wipe your arse with it, anything really,and rightly so as this is a free country,so far!

Of course it's a free country, and so people can say and do whatever they like, as long as they're not breaking the law (hence why I asked if anyone knew if it was illegal to burn a flag).

However, that doesn't mean it's in the best interests of their cause to do whatever they feel like. I think most people would acknowledge it's a reasonable request to change the date to something everyone can get behind. However, a reasonable request made in a completely unreasonable way (like burning a flag and attacking police that try and stop you from doing it) simply alienates people. There are 3 groups of people on this issue: 1) those that want the date changed; 2) those that don't want the date changed; and 3) those that don't really care (likely the vast majority of people). A great way to push people from bucket 3 to bucket 2 is to behave in an obnoxious and offensive manner.

Peaceful protests and large, peaceful marches are a great way to push people from bucket 3 to bucket 1. Burning a flag, attacking police, and just generally acting like flogs is a great way to push people from bucket 3 to bucket 2.

 

[Donkey Chop]

I disagree quite strongly with this assertion, it only alienates those who want to be alienated and to show their indignation. The only people who are alienated are those that propagate the black arm band view of history - personally I believe that there have been a lot more positives to life in Australia post 1788 than those who take the dim view that life post 1788 is nothing more than oppression, genocide and imperial domination.

Noone of can re-write history or undo the mistakes made in the past (many horrific) but the best thing all Australians can do is move forward together as a respectful, multi-cultural society and part of that is the celebration of modern Australia as a nation, it doesn't take away from the pre 1788 history. Jan 26 should stay.

The actual date is when the British landed, put a flag in the ground and declared it a British state (or whatever they call it). The laws at the time said you could only do this if the land didn't have a civilisation and was inhabited by 'savages'.

It's the reason Mabo went to England, stuck an aboriginal flag in the ground and declared it a aboriginal state.

Not much difference really.

Now I get that a lot of years have past and it is impossible to reverse the damage the British did while setting out to destroy the aboriginal people simply so they could use it as a place to send all their unwanted.

I love Australia. Love it and am pretty patriotic. I just don't know if we should have the day the British invaded as our national day of pride.

 

[Roozee]

Blah, blah, blah.....came here to read what people were cooking on their BBQ and what and how many beers they were slamming and who was listening to and going to win Triple J's Hottest 100, etc.

Give the political crap a rest for once or take it to the all-encompassing Trump thread.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Blah, blah, blah.....came here to read what people were cooking on their BBQ and what and how many beers they were slamming and who was listening to and going to win Triple J's Hottest 100, etc.

Give the political crap a rest for once or take it to the all-encompassing Trump thread.

View attachment 330950

I stayed away from this thread on Australia Day for that very reason. Then I had a look today and there were other people with a similar point of view.

FWIW I spent yesterday listening to triple J, teaching my girls to play soccer, then drank beers whilst cooking lamb on the barby. It was a good day.

Though I found it hard to explain where Australia Day came from. I just said we get a day off because we live in an awesome country.

They can make their own minds up when they learn it's origins.

 

[Roozee]

Though I found it hard to explain where Australia Day came from. I just said we get a day off because we live in an awesome country.

They can make their own minds up when they learn it's origins.

Right there.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Right there.

No one is debating that.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

I stayed away from this thread on Australia Day for that very reason. Then I had a look today and there were other people with a similar point of view.

FWIW I spent yesterday listening to triple J, teaching my girls to play soccer, then drank beers whilst cooking lamb on the barby. It was a good day.

Though I found it hard to explain where Australia Day came from. I just said we get a day off because we live in an awesome country.

They can make their own minds up when they learn it's origins.

I told my son it was when Cook landed, so I wasn't really paying attention to anything except a) it's nice to have another day off and b) it's a bit tough to expect everyone to celebrate on a day that represented the country being colonised, one way or another.

We went on to discuss how most national days are born out of some historical event that had winners and losers, so it's hard to get right. Also that it's a great time of year for another holiday and in Australia that probably means it won't be moved.

I take more pride in Labour Day, to be honest, and have much stronger feelings about ANZAC Day. Barely a a day goes by that I don't read the news and feel grateful to libe here - although not in a best country in the world kind of way, as there are lots of other places where I know I could also live and raise my kids very happily - so I don't find Australia Day particularly special and I don't much like a lot of people who do.

Anyway, hope everyone enjoyed it, however they spent the day.

 

[Gasometer]

I told my son it was when Cook landed, so I wasn't really paying attention to anything except a) it's nice to have another day off and b) it's a bit tough to expect everyone to celebrate on a day that represented the country being colonised, one way or another.

We went on to discuss how most national days are born out of some historical event that had winners and losers, so it's hard to get right. Also that it's a great time of year for another holiday and in Australia that probably means it won't be moved.

I take more pride in Labour Day, to be honest, and have much stronger feelings about ANZAC Day. Barely a a day goes by that I don't read the news and feel grateful to libe here - although not in a best country in the world kind of way, as there are lots of other places where I know I could also live and raise my kids very happily - so I don't find Australia Day particularly special and I don't much like a lot of people who do.

Anyway, hope everyone enjoyed it, however they spent the day.

I reckon it's only when you work daily with Indigenous people do you realise the hurt and disadvantage.

 

[Donkey Chop]

I reckon it's only when you work daily with Indigenous people do you realise the hurt and disadvantage.

Not really. It's there for everyone to learn. It's just that most people don't want to know.

Funny thing is, most aussies are descendant from connies who are so far removed from the people that invaded they have more in common with the indigenous then they care to learn

 

[Gasometer]

Not really. It's there for everyone to learn. It's just that most people don't want to know.

Funny thing is, most aussies are descendant from connies who are so far removed from the people that invaded they have more in common with the indigenous then they care to learn

Most Australians never meet an Indigenous person in the cities especially.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

I reckon it's only when you work daily with Indigenous people do you realise the hurt and disadvantage.

Like most Australians, my contact with indigenous Australia is limited. Indigenous friends I do know are very political and into the invasion day/change the date position - I know that's not everyone, but it's a perspective I am familiar with. I understand and have sympathy with it. Add it wouldn't worry me if we changed or ditched the day. But I expect apathy, opposition and mostly the enjoyment of a sunny day off to win out.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Most Australians never meet an Indigenous person in the cities especially.

The ones they do meet aren't usually the ones they need to meet either.

*. I didn't want to turn this into a political thread.

Side topic. Yesterday when I went to Dan Murphy's coburg to get sone grog, as I walked out I saw a Muslim couple, she was wearing a hijab with an Australian flag skirt and her man was wearing a singlet with the Australian flag on it, I thought what an amazing country we live in.

 

[numchuks]

lol @ people who get their panties in a bunch about protecting the date of Australia Day.

Australia Day celebrates the founding of NSW, has no relevance to Victoria or Victorians whatsoever.

Any true blue blooded Victorian who believes we should get a day off to celebrate NSW should have their head checked.

 

[KiwiRoo]

I wanted to get KiwiRoo attention.

Hadlee was better than Lillee

actually whats happened to the long run ups for fast bowlers ? they seem to have gone. No good Bob Willis or Michael holding style run ups now !
Travesty !

 

[Gasometer]

Hadlee was better than Lillee

actually whats happened to the long run ups for fast bowlers ? they seem to have gone. No good Bob Willis or Michael holding style run ups now !
Travesty !

Wat is your National Holiday all about?

 

[blackshadow]

Wat is your National Holiday all about?

Trevor Chappel

 

[astrovic]

Hadlee was better than Lillee

That's kinda like Indians saying Tendulkar was better than Bradman.

 

[KiwiRoo]

Wat is your National Holiday all about?

We celebrate the signing of the treaty of Waitangi, which very simply was a treaty between Britain and the Maori tribes to try and protect the rights and resources of Maori.
It suffered for generations due to it being simply ignored by NZ Governments. (There was even Maori land seized as late as the 1940's.)
However in recent times its been recognised that for NZ to move forward as a country we need to recognise that Maori haven't been treated as well as they should have been (think being a farmer and having your farm seized, you being compensated with a few beads and blankets and then it being on sold for a much higher price). Therefore there has been billions of dollars of compensation paid to local Iwi (tribes) along with the gifting of a 3rd of fishing quota.
These Maori Corporations are now huge in NZ and have a big share of fishing, Tourism, forestry and farming and are doing very nicely thank you.

anyway, long story short, the treaty settlements haven't been perfect, but they have been largely pretty positive.

Unfortunately the national day has been hijacked recently by a few radicals and now a lot of NZ largely ignore the goings on at Waitangi and just enjoy the day off. (the PM for instance wont attend the Marae where the treaty was signed, as they have got sick of the abuse they have copped)

 

[Gasometer]

Trevor Chappel

..that's a day of National Mourning iirc.

All in black.

 

[KiwiRoo]

Trevor Chappel

don't get me started ! I'll be coming off a run up so long it will have drink stations on it !

 

[astrovic]

don't get me started ! I'll be coming off a run up so long it will have drink stations on it !

Well whatever you do, don't do anything underhanded. Us Aussies won't put up with it.

 

[Gasometer]

Well whatever you do, don't do anything underhanded. Us Aussies won't put up with it.

Yep. campaigners that chuck for Instance.

Underarm bowling...well..cough...thats different

 

[Saintly35]

Didn't want to enter this "invasion day" nonsense being a positive thread, but I've read enough. It's such a simple minded position.

In what way did the Indigenous "own" Australia? I keep reading about land rights and so on, but there weren't any being uneducated and native, with no legitimate land title system.

Sure occupation itself gives rights hence the MABO decision, and adverse possession under relative Land law amongst States. But it's limited and rightly so.

History is filled with hostile takeovers of countries/communities across the globe with similar native communities. Land should only be "owned" if for valuable consideration, appropriately surveyed, documented transfer and so on.

Making Australia what it is now is far more important to me than how our lives have eventuated. Sure it would have been great to co-exist together at the time of takeover (as we do now, Indigenous people get an array of extra rights that non-Indigenous don't as recognition) but it didn't happen that way unfortunately.

Other countries' native people have been treated far worse, let alone the genocide etc. Completely wiped out with no special favours whatsover.

I love Australia. I love the combination of different people, and that includes our Indigenous, Chinese, African, whatever, all welcomed (assuming legal channel incoming) and for that we should be very proud.

Focussing just on the (upsetting, sure) takeover of over a century ago does a great disservice to those who have made our country fantastic IMO.

If people want to move the date, that's fine. What I'd suggest though is to push hard for Australia being a Republic, it's failed in the past but if people are taking the angle that the date is wrong due to the "invasion"...........then it must follow they don't want to be part of the English serving the Queen.

On that i wholeheartedly agree, could "kill two birds with one stone" - as a country we'd move on like it never happened, I'd be very much promoting that. Their industry/$$ is rubbish, we don't need them. If anything with our highly skilled people who work/travel there (for the Euro experience) prop them up.

I hate the Monarchy and it's elite and irrelevant rubbish.

We are better and stronger than that so for mine it's best to get on with being Australian.

Republic FTW.