Club History Before the Crows, there was the Redlegs

[Ford Fairlane]

Yeah maybe I'm selling Russ's development short.

Herb introduced a lot of young players into the team. Some Port legends, him included, retired during his time as coach. And he uncovered some new ones.

 

[GremioPower]

SA won't ever get 3 teams because we don't have the population to sustain it. Sucks to say but a composite was always going to happen unless the NFL happened. Have no doubt that we'd have always been in though.

Considering population only, if Melbourne has nine teams, Adelaide could have 2.5. Three would be a stretch, indeed, but not by much.

 

[tribey]

In 1988 Port played Norwood in the last minor round game and the first final. Norwood failed to kick a goal in the second half of the minor round game and the first half of the final. Port held Norwood goalless over 4 consecutive quarters.

That fate befell a certain other team the year Port Adelaide won a premiership.

 

[Established1870]

Considering population only, if Melbourne has nine teams, Adelaide could have 2.5. Three would be a stretch, indeed, but not by much.

1) Vics have 2-3 times the population we do. I don't think they can sustain 9 clubs forever (they had 10 when the VFL evolved into the AFL+Geelong) but in terms of potential for supporters, they s**t on SA in that regard.

2) Melbourne has a lot more money than Adelaide with a lot of national and international companies based there (whilst we have almost none). Being a Melbourne team is financially more appealing to sponsors than being an Adelaide one. Think of it like Sáo Paulo and Porto Alegre. Porto Alegre isn't poor but compared to SP, financially they're miles apart.

If we got 2.5 million people I think the potential for a 3rd SA side would be there (come on down Norwood!) but I don't see that happening. As it is, population numbers all point to Sydney and Melbourne getting the bulk of new people (West Melbourne, a known shithole, is set to grow by 1 million people by 2026). We can't even remotely match that population growth.

 

[tribey]

Considering population only, if Melbourne has nine teams, Adelaide could have 2.5. Three would be a stretch, indeed, but not by much.

Nah, not the way loyalties lie here. If another composite side came in, say, the South Coast Sharks, there would be zero reason for anyone to support it.

If Norwood came in as another existing club - and had to change their guernsey due to an unacceptable similarity to Melbourne similar to us and Collingwood - there'd be minimal residual support coming from existing diehards and those returning from the Crows. They only have 3000 members now as it is.

The other group that is always forgotten when discussing SA is those who support other AFL clubs.

Everyone knows someone who is either an Adelaide native or a long-term Adelaide resident who supports a team other than Port or the Crows.

I have mates and acquaintances who support St Kilda, WCE, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, Carlton and North Melbourne and local family members who support Collingwood and Geelong.

Unless the population suddenly doubled, finding a third pie is impossible.

 

[70sDinosaur]

In 1988 Port played Norwood in the last minor round game and the first final. Norwood failed to kick a goal in the second half of the minor round game and the first half of the final. Port held Norwood goalless over 4 consecutive quarters.

And in 1909 we held them goalless over 4 consecutive quarters in one game!

1.4 to 0.5

I always used to love reading that score in the record book.

It always amused me that our lowest ever score in the SANFL came in a game that we not only won, but doubled the opposition's score!

 

[Papa G]

Less teams, not more.

 

[70sDinosaur]

I think your memory might be failing you.

Greg Phillips left at the same time as Cahill and he came back to Port before Jack. Abba left before Jack and came back to Port before him too.

Jack won flags from 1988 basically with the young players Russell brought into the team.

I seem to remember Jack bringing a few Collingwood boys with him when he came back to coach West.

 

[GreyPower]

It took Cahill though to change the positions of D Smith -->to CHF
Hodges -->FF
Leslie-->back flank
Fiacchi-->back pocket

 

[GremioPower]

1) Vics have 2-3 times the population we do. I don't think they can sustain 9 clubs forever (they had 10 when the VFL evolved into the AFL+Geelong) but in terms of potential for supporters, they s**t on SA in that regard.

2) Melbourne has a lot more money than Adelaide with a lot of national and international companies based there (whilst we have almost none). Being a Melbourne team is financially more appealing to sponsors than being an Adelaide one. Think of it like Sáo Paulo and Porto Alegre. Porto Alegre isn't poor but compared to SP, financially they're miles apart.

If we got 2.5 million people I think the potential for a 3rd SA side would be there (come on down Norwood!) but I don't see that happening. As it is, population numbers all point to Sydney and Melbourne getting the bulk of new people (West Melbourne, a known shithole, is set to grow by 1 million people by 2026). We can't even remotely match that population growth.

Nah, not the way loyalties lie here. If another composite side came in, say, the South Coast Sharks, there would be zero reason for anyone to support it.

If Norwood came in as another existing club - and had to change their guernsey due to an unacceptable similarity to Melbourne similar to us and Collingwood - there'd be minimal residual support coming from existing diehards and those returning from the Crows. They only have 3000 members now as it is.

The other group that is always forgotten when discussing SA is those who support other AFL clubs.

Everyone knows someone who is either an Adelaide native or a long-term Adelaide resident who supports a team other than Port or the Crows.

I have mates and acquaintances who support St Kilda, WCE, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, Carlton and North Melbourne and local family members who support Collingwood and Geelong.

Unless the population suddenly doubled, finding a third pie is impossible.

As I have said, it is a stretch. Another composite wouldn't work because Crows represent everybody. It would need to be Norwood or Norwood/Sturt, as they tried once, and a passionate fan-base to make it happen.

In other words, it would need a football-loving population with strong local identity. I don't know Adelaide, but Porto Alegre, for instance, has that. There is no reason for us having two clubs as strong as we do. Money-wise, population-wise, location-wise, everything is against us. However, Grêmio and Internacional manage to keep fighting.

 

[GremioPower]

Less teams, not more.

Nah...

 

[Steve Dore]

Nah...

The current number of teams has diluted the talent pool. Aussie rules has 22 players per team, 18 on the field and 4 on the bench. AFL club squads are around 40 players. I don't follow association football but I know that there are 11 on the field and I believe EPL clubs have a squad of 25 players. I don't know what size squads your local teams have but I imagine it would be similar. So you need considerably less players in association football and therefore can field more better quality teams from a smaller talent pool.

 

[SgtSchulz]

Less teams, not more.

SANFL should've heeded this advice in the 1960's...

 

[GremioPower]

The current number of teams has diluted the talent pool. Aussie rule has 22 players per team, 18 on the field and 4 on the bench. AFL club squads are around 40 palyers. I don't follow association football but I know that there are 11 on the field and I believe EPL clubs have a squad of 25 players. I don't know what size squads your local teams have but I imagine it would be similar. So you need considerably less players in association football and therefore can field more better quality teams from a smaller talent pool.

It always dilutes, but it is not important. At a certain point, new players are all in the same level. If expansion is done properly, one barely notice any reduction in quality. Regardless of the number, there will always be great teams, good teams, average teams, bad teams, awful teams; and the same is true about players. Once the "natural" proportion is restablished, the "on-field" part of the business is fine.

 

[Rising Power]

SANFL should've heeded this advice in the 1960's...

Centrals fair enough, new satellite city to house the flood of emigrating poms, but jamming Woodville in between long established club zones in North, Port, West and Torrens was just ******* ludicrous.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Well we all know the reason for jamming up the western 'burbs, don't we? Even plenty of non-Port supporters believe the Peckers were brought in to undermine Port's position of strength. It certainly benefited Sturt, but it's also worth noting that Sturt were not the only Big 4 club (Port, Sturt, Norwood, Glenelg) of the 1960s-80s to have success in the 1965-1977 period. Let's have a look at the strike rates of the so-called Big 4 clubs other than Port, prior to their ultimate success.

Glenelg - 39 years before their 1973 flag
Norwood - 25 years before their 1975 flag
Sturt - 24 years before their 1966 flag

(North Adelaide won 2 flags in 1971-72 after an 8 year hiatus)

Now there's no doubt that there was a golden era for Sturt under good old Jack Oatey, but it was also this period that made Sturt a Big 4 club through the 1960s-80s. No premierships or grand finals from 1940-1965 hardly made them a perennial achiever.

Glenelg were barely a blip on the radar with two grand finals in their history before 1969. Norwood of course had always been Port's traditional rival, but had endured 25 years between premierships and were unsighted in grand finals for 14 years between 1961-1975.

Again there's no doubt that Sturt had a great side through that period, their record confirms it. North Adelaide all too briefly were a powerhouse in the early 1970s, and even the Bays pulled it all together under Kerley (although haunted by too many GF losses). Would these clubs all have been as successful if Port hadn't been nobbled to some extent? Who knows, they may well have been. Counter-intuitively in this period, Port could perform well against the powerhouse sides during the minor round, but couldn't find that extra gear in finals. Sometimes the difference there is one player.

But did the SANFL know these dynasties or at least cyclical upswings of other clubs were on the horizon (with Fos's methods being overtaken in the evolution of football) when the decision was made re Woodville? They couldn't have. If it wasn't a conspiracy, it surely was one happy coincidence for the SANFL.

 

[Steve Dore]

.. Port could perform well against the powerhouse sides during the minor round, but couldn't find that extra gear in finals. Sometimes the difference there is one player. ...

There was a young fella who grew up a Ports supporter that ended up playing for Woodville in the late 60's, early 70's that would have been handy at Ports during that period.

 

[Rising Power]

There was a young fella who grew up a Ports supporter that ended up playing for Woodville in the late 60's, early 70's that would have been handy at Ports during that period.

 

[SgtSchulz]

SANFL administration back in the day should've realised that less was more. More teams spreads the talent thinner...

If I was a neutral in charge in the 1960's...

I'd more North Adelaide up around Gepps Cross...maybe even further North.

I'd merge West Adelaide & West Torrens into a super club.

I'd pull the trigger early on South Adelaide playing around Noarlunga with the club playing one game a year to open the season in Victor when the weather is nice.

This would mean every club has clear air around its surrounding suburbs.

It would also mean that the league would have only 7 sides. Compared to 12 in the VFL.

It would've been marvellous.

 

[Steve Dore]

... If I was a neutral in charge in the 1960's...

I'd pull the trigger early on South Adelaide playing around Noarlunga ...

Surely you can't be serious.

I worked on the building of Collonades in the late 1970's and I remember thinking, "why the $%@^ are they building a shopping centre in the middle of nowhere". They were only just extending the train line past Hallet Cove to Christies Downs.

 

[PepeSilvia]

For anyone who's happy to answer, since they're both a bit before my time... Were there any particularly significant rivalries in the SANFL that didn't involve Port Adelaide?

And what were the circumstances around Bruce Weber being sacked (I assume he was sacked, it's hard to find quick info about this)? Who pushed him out, and if it was the SANFL, how?

 

[Macca19]

For anyone who's happy to answer, since they're both a bit before my time... Were there any particularly significant rivalries in the SANFL that didn't involve Port Adelaide?

Norwood and Sturt had a rivalry going there. Glenelg and North in the 80s was quite big. Victorian and Norwood in the 1870's, by jingoes, you shoulda been there!

And what were the circumstances around Bruce Weber being sacked (I assume he was sacked, it's hard to find quick info about this)? Who pushed him out, and if it was the SANFL, how?[/QUOTE]

Bruce wasn't sacked. He stayed on until the end of 1992 then resigned. I can't imagine what he would have gone through. He had death threats, threats to his family, all sorts of nasty stuff. There would have been a time where the general public considered him worse than Von Einem, all because he had the vision and the balls to try and get the best for our football club.

 

[Rising Power]

Bruce wasn't sacked. He stayed on until the end of 1992 then resigned. I can't imagine what he would have gone through. He had death threats, threats to his family, all sorts of nasty stuff. There would have been a time where the general public considered him worse than Von Einem, all because he had the vision and the balls to try and get the best for our football club.

On Tuesday night Greg Boulton mentioned that Weber was not re-elected to the Board, but whether that meant he stood again or not, I'm not sure. He went on to say Port went in with a whole new strategy for the next licence by installing all-round nice guy Brian Cunningham as the new CEO (along with himself as President), full transparency etc etc and the SANFL cronies lapped it up. Everybody Loves Bucky.

 

[SgtSchulz]

On Tuesday night Greg Boulton mentioned that Weber was not re-elected to the Board, but whether that meant he stood again or not, I'm not sure. He went on to say Port went in with a whole new strategy for the next licence by installing all-round nice guy Brian Cunningham as the new CEO (along with himself as President), full transparency etc etc and the SANFL cronies lapped it up. Everybody Loves Bucky.

I love Bruce at the 1990 Magarey Medal.

"We came, got the hardware, and are now going home"

 

[tribey]

There was a young fella who grew up a Ports supporter that ended up playing for Woodville in the late 60's, early 70's that would have been handy at Ports during that period.

In his HOF Legend-induction speech he mentioned Rex Johns being his back fence neighbour too.