Club History Before the Crows, there was the Redlegs

[70sDinosaur]

I'd pull the trigger early on South Adelaide playing around Noarlunga with the club playing one game a year to open the season in Victor when the weather is nice.

The first 8 words of that paragraph would have been sufficient.

 

[70sDinosaur]

For anyone who's happy to answer, since they're both a bit before my time... Were there any particularly significant rivalries in the SANFL that didn't involve Port Adelaide?

There was a vicious and bitter rivalry between North Adelaide and West Torrens after the high profile defection of superstar player Kym Dillon from the Roosters to the Eagles.

 

[Portology]

There was a young fella who grew up a Ports supporter that ended up playing for Woodville in the late 60's, early 70's that would have been handy at Ports during that period.

IIRC John Roberts also grew up a Port supporter. Another handy goal kicker who proved himself at the top level of the day. So many couldabeens on top of everything

We keep up a high degree of competitiveness but yeah just a player or two short of a flag for 12 years, but West Torrens decline sharply from a group that challenges cyclically, winning a flag roughly every ten years to ... bottom of the table oblivion. ****ing Woodville, what a stupid idea that was.

To keep the comp at 8 teams with the sensible introduction of Central, SANFL should have probably folded South into Sturt in the early 1960s when neither club had been any sort of power for decades. South were seriously wounded by the 1897 change to zones in the first place but Sturt subsequently popping up in their zone turned that into a permanent incapacity*. Would have been pretty much a W+WT = WWT decades ahead of its time. Clue in the last four words there as to why it couldn't have happened under SANFL admin. Well maybe someone still alive knows if that debate ever happened. If they weren't buried boots first under the grandstand on Brebner Drive to protect the guilty.

* somewhere, I can't remember where, I've seen maps of revised 1937 zones that show just how crowded/screwed by/ South were by the zoning

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

On Tuesday night Greg Boulton mentioned that Weber was not re-elected to the Board, but whether that meant he stood again or not, I'm not sure. He went on to say Port went in with a whole new strategy for the next licence by installing all-round nice guy Brian Cunningham as the new CEO (along with himself as President), full transparency etc etc and the SANFL cronies lapped it up. Everybody Loves Bucky.

Weber was forced out. The Power to Win doco which was shown on Ch 9 the week after the 2004 flag which was re-cut and turned into the The Epic Journey DVD says, "President Bruce Weber hours earlier was dumped at the club's annual general meeting." That would have been in December 1992 and Bucky came in at the start of 1992. I lived in Sydney in 1992 so I don't know the technicalities but I suspect he was up for re-election and he didn't get re-elected on the night, rather than a vote of no confidence and removal of him. I don't know if there was proxy voting for the move.

The club decided when Bucky became CEO that they needed to take a different tact and that was as you said RP the nice guy and full transparency approach. The SANFL cronies hated Weber, but they loved Bucky. It was all politics if Weber stayed so the club played the long game.

Plus Bruce's business was struggling after he was ostracized and business contracts were cut or didnt go anywhere when he quoted or tendered for jobs here in SA. It forced him to go into receivership. I have asked my colleague who knew Bruce since the mid 70's, initially professionally but then became friends with him, to write something about him which I will put into the Bruce Weber for Port Adelaide Hall of Fame thread.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Weber was forced out. The Power to Win doco which was shown on Ch 9 the week after the 2004 flag which was re-cut and turned into the The Epic Journey DVD says, "President Bruce Weber hours earlier was dumped at the club's annual general meeting." That would have been in December 1992 and Bucky came in at the start of 1992. I lived in Sydney in 1992 so I don't know the technicalities but I suspect he was up for re-election and he didn't get re-elected on the night, rather than a vote of no confidence and removal of him. I don't know if there was proxy voting for the move.

The club decided when Bucky became CEO that they needed to take a different tact and that was as you said RP the nice guy and full transparency approach. The SANFL cronies hated Weber, but they loved Bucky. It was all politics if Weber stayed so the club played the long game.

Plus Bruce's business was struggling after he was ostracized and business contracts were cut or didnt go anywhere when he quoted or tendered for jobs here in SA. It forced him to go into receivership. I have asked my colleague who knew Bruce since the mid 70's, initially professionally but then became friends with him, to write something about him which I will put into the Bruce Weber for Port Adelaide Hall of Fame thread.

That's pretty much it REH. Bob Kingston ran as the extra candidate at the election and out-polled Bruce. Bob quietly disappeared after that. I couldn't even tell you if he saw out his term he was so anonymous.

Port knew that they had to clear the slate with the sanfl to move on with their AFL bid.

 

[tribey]

SANFL administration back in the day should've realised that less was more. More teams spreads the talent thinner...

If I was a neutral in charge in the 1960's...

I'd more North Adelaide up around Gepps Cross...maybe even further North.

I'd merge West Adelaide & West Torrens into a super club.

I'd pull the trigger early on South Adelaide playing around Noarlunga with the club playing one game a year to open the season in Victor when the weather is nice.

This would mean every club has clear air around its surrounding suburbs.

It would also mean that the league would have only 7 sides. Compared to 12 in the VFL.

It would've been marvellous.

Surely you can't be serious.

I worked on the building of Collonades in the late 1970's and I remember thinking, "why the $%@^ are they building a shopping centre in the middle of nowhere". They were only just extending the train line past Hallet Cove to Christies Downs.

South had to make Noarlunga its base some time in the early eighties at the absolute latest.

There's no way they would've had the resources to do so in what was a financially bleak time for football nationwide, but that was the only path to being in any way relevant, similar to Centrals monopolising the greater Playford region.

Of course in hindsight we know it's all moot, what with the AFL-era well and truly relegating the SANFL to second-class status from 1991-onwards, but gee whiz, if we look back and think the likes of Woodville and Fitzroy were geographically terminal, South were in zombiemode for decades.

Homeless (Panther Park in no way counted), playing out of Adelaide Oval, and with an ascendant Glenelg serving as the default club of the south, with Port Adelaide's gravitational sucking people in from all points of the Onkaparingan Moccasin Belt for good measure.

 

[SgtSchulz]

The funniest thing about the merger of Woodville and West Torrens is they basically came about the same way, a resentment of Port Adelaide.

West Torrens was formed by a bunch of Port Adelaide seconds who couldn't get a game and Woodville was entered into the SANFL to weaken the club after our 1954-65 run.

 

[tribey]

The funniest thing about the merger of Woodville and West Torrens is they basically came about the same way, a resentment of Port Adelaide.

West Torrens was formed by a bunch of Port Adelaide seconds who couldn't get a game and Woodville was entered into the SANFL to weaken the club after our 1954-65 run.

It's a Fruchoctopian theme. Torrens. Woodville. Adelaide.

 

[GreyPower]

North & Glenelg in mid 80s was a big rivalry - I remember going to the 85 to 87 grand finals as a neutal, wondering when the hell Port was going to return to their rightful place as premiers!

I shouldnt have been that concerned!

 

[Rexie J]

The funniest thing about the merger of Woodville and West Torrens is they basically came about the same way, a resentment of Port Adelaide.

West Torrens was formed by a bunch of Port Adelaide seconds who couldn't get a game and Woodville was entered into the SANFL to weaken the club after our 1954-65 run.

'Bustling Billy' Barrot as captain/coach in the very early 70's didn't aid Torrens cause A highly emotive individual (wrote the digest on how to dummy spit) who began his career at Richmond and then trawled through a couple of other VFL sides if I recall. Lasted less than two seasons at Torrens but he was at least entertaining

 

[GreyPower]

West Torrens circa 1975:

 

[raptalia]

That's pretty much it REH. Bob Kingston ran as the extra candidate at the election and out-polled Bruce. Bob quietly disappeared after that. I couldn't even tell you if he saw out his term he was so anonymous.

Port knew that they had to clear the slate with the sanfl to move on with their AFL bid.

That last bit was the key issue. The Port Board never gave up on joining the AFL and I am convinced they had some pretty good indicators from within the AFL that they should be prepared. To this end there were regular supporter information evenings at Alberton from around 1994 onward. It was generally felt that Fitzroy were in trouble and that a space would eventually open up so we should be prepared and I remember Brian Cunningham making that point at one opf the meetings.

However to join the AFL we still needed SANFL approval and thanks to the bigots associated with the SANFL we were never going to get that with Bruce still seen as the king pin at Port. A new approach was needed so sad as it was Bruce had to be replaced. The move to Brian and Greg was brilliant as both men supported by the Board and our supporters turned the SANFL opinion on its head.

REH is also correct in that Bruce's business went into decline in the early nineties and he eventually went to Indonesia where he died at the early age of 54.

We all owe Bruce Weber a tremendous amount and those of us who were around at the time will never forget the unwarranted attacks Bruce and his Board endured at the hands of the media and worse still the SA football establishment.

 

[70sDinosaur]

'Bustling Billy' Barrot as captain/coach in the very early 70's didn't aid Torrens cause A highly emotive individual (wrote the digest on how to dummy spit) who began his career at Richmond and then trawled through a couple of other VFL sides if I recall. Lasted less than two seasons at Torrens but he was at least entertaining

Was sacked in mid-season 1974 and replaced by Wayne Jackson, if I remember correctly.

 

[Rexie J]

Was sacked in mid-season 1974 and replaced by Wayne Jackson, if I remember correctly.

And the 'marbles' of those of us slightly senior persons is spot on

Had a few chats with 'Freddy' Bills when he was a 'crash shop' rep for 3M.

 

[70sDinosaur]

And the 'marbles' of those of us slightly senior persons is spot on

Had a few chats with 'Freddy' Bills when he was a 'crash shop' rep for 3M.

I remember the day in 1977 when Fred Bills coached Torrens against Port at Alberton while Kerls was away coaching the state team in Perth.

Fred's boys led all day and almost pulled off the upset but Trevor Sorrell saved the day by kicking a goal from the first row of the Quinn grandstand to get us over the line!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Considering population only, if Melbourne has nine teams, Adelaide could have 2.5. Three would be a stretch, indeed, but not by much.

Its a big stretch because population is a poor measure.

4 Melbourne based sides are propped up by big subsidies from the AFL, which have been going for over a decade and wont be given to a 3rd SA side for a decade. Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne and St Kilda wouldn't survive if there wasn't subsidies. That's the benefit of the national competition being an expanded Victorian League not a new competition starting from scratch like the A-League did and Melbourne protecting their own.

Since 1987 South Australia has probably only matched, yes matched not lead the Australian average for a) economic growth rate and b) population growth rate for 2 or 3 years. SA's economic and population relative share has gone backwards since the competition went national. In 1987 SA had 15 members of a 148 member federal parliament house of representatives. Currently it has 11 of 150 and talk is at the next boundary redistribution it will have 10 of 150. SA only has 1, maybe 2 businesses with their Australian head office in Adelaide in the ASX 200 companies. In 1974 Brisbane and Adelaide were the same size and 200,000 people more than Perth. Now Perth has 700,000 more people than Adelaide and Brisbane about 1 million more.

There was an article, which I can't find, from 2014 when WA was still the fastest growing state at the tail end of the mining boom showed that by 2020 or 2025 the WA GDP share for the 2 WA clubs compared to the Victorian GDP share for the 10 Victorian teams was over twice per WA team compared to Vic teams and the article said a 3rd team out of WA was a certainity based on an economic case. SA GDP per club was way behind. The mining boom has ended and the WA projections wont be as great but they will get a 3rd team probably 80 years before SA get a 3rd team.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I remember the day in 1977 when Fred Bills coached Torrens against Port at Alberton while Kerls was away coaching the state team in Perth.

Fred's boys led all day and almost pulled off the upset but Trevor Sorrell saved the day by kicking a goal from the first row of the Quinn grandstand to get us over the line!

Lol yeah I remember that. The Torrens people reckon Sorrell marked the ball in the first row of the Quinn the ball was so far out on the full. Then he slotted the goal to rub salt into the wound.

 

[tribey]

The Torrens people

So quaint.

It's like we're referring to the ex-residents of Easter Island.

 

[raptalia]

I remember the day in 1977 when Fred Bills coached Torrens against Port at Alberton while Kerls was away coaching the state team in Perth.

Fred's boys led all day and almost pulled off the upset but Trevor Sorrell saved the day by kicking a goal from the first row of the Quinn grandstand to get us over the line!

That was the 30th July 1977 I remember it well because I got a call to report to the Port office. My wife had gone into labour and my son was born the following day.

 

[1954]

Re the Noarlunga situation, there were big plans in the early to mid 80's to turn the footy ground and surrounds into a sporting complex, including a greyhound track, trotting track, tennis courts, etc, etc.

I know this because I was one of about 10 people involved in the two racing industries, who were invited to have discussions with a state government representative, that were held at a private residence in Morphett Vale, one sunday morning in 1983.

The bloke was your typical government numpty, but he had architect's drawings of what was supposed to happen, and they looked quite impressive.

The meeting went for about 2 hours and those in attendance were given the impression it would definitely happen, but obviously nothing eventuated, and the plans were shelved.

 

[Steve Dore]

Re the Noarlunga situation, there were big plans in the early to mid 80's to turn the footy ground and surrounds into a sporting complex, including a greyhound track, trotting track, tennis courts, etc, etc. ...

I can understand that been looked at in the 80's as Colonnades had opened by then and the train line had been extended to Noarlunga Centre. But not the 60's.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I can understand that been looked at in the 80's as Colonnades had opened by then and the train line had been extended to Noarlunga Centre. But not the 60's.

In the 1960's, South Adelaide's zone started on the south side of South Terrace.

 

[Steve Dore]

In the 1960's, South Adelaide's zone started on the south side of South Terrace.

That didn't make the area around Noarlunga Oval any less of a sheep paddock although it did give them Unley.

 

[70sDinosaur]

Re the Noarlunga situation, there were big plans in the early to mid 80's to turn the footy ground and surrounds into a sporting complex, including a greyhound track, trotting track, tennis courts, etc, etc.

I know this because I was one of about 10 people involved in the two racing industries, who were invited to have discussions with a state government representative, that were held at a private residence in Morphett Vale, one sunday morning in 1983.

The bloke was your typical government numpty, but he had architect's drawings of what was supposed to happen, and they looked quite impressive.

The meeting went for about 2 hours and those in attendance were given the impression it would definitely happen, but obviously nothing eventuated, and the plans were shelved.

Although I was born in and grew up in Adelaide, I don't reckon I worked out that Morphett Vale and Morphetville were two different places until I was well into my 20s.

 

[Rising Power]

Lol I just forgot another interesting thing Boulton mentioned on Tuesday night: Port was approached by more than one club to put in a joint/amalgamated bid for the second licence, but on the condition that the AFL entity not be called Port Adelaide, based at Alberton or have black and white as club colours. Obviously they were told where to go