Beyond the GF – Why the MCG Contract doesn’t pass the Stink Test

[theyellowsash]

Any business who did a deal this big without a tender process would be slammed by shareholders. Governments have policies that mean they have to tender.

It was a behind the scene's move when the existing contract had 20 years to run. Absolute disgrace that stinks of corruption because the process was not transparent to allow the entire organisation to have a say. You can't just make decision that advantage a certain percentage of your shareholders without voting. A normal contract would only run for a maximum of 10 years with an extension option so I'm not sure how they even achieve that or the point of it.

why does the process need to have any transparency? does your boss consult you when deciding to move office/factory location?

also, we are not shareholders of the afl. we pay for a membership which allows us to go to games. how they run the business is up to them, and for the most part they are running it well. the afl just needs to point to growing audiences, memberships and revenue to prove that the business decisions they are making are for the good of the business, regardless of whether some people like them or not.

 

[Rob]

lol, the deal is neither of dishonest or fraudulent. the afl have been entirely upfront about it, just because you dont like it doesnt make it dishonest. nice own goal there.

a private business choosing to run an event at a particular location is not corruption, unless you're suggesting gil and the other people involved are getting personal under the table kickbacks in order to sign the contract, when they know it is definitively bad for the business as a whole. even then, being a private business, its arguable whether that is corruption either, as the afl has no obligations except to themselves.

poor business decision because it ostracises a portion of the customer base? perhaps. but poor business decisions alone arent corruption.

They were only upfront about it after the deal had been done.
And given the incredible deal done in favour of the Victorian government it certainly begs the question as to what other side deals have been done, because the deal doesn't make sense otherwise. If it's not corruption then it's incompetence. Pick one.

 

[_Mike_]

Whilst the actual Grand Final being held at the MCG every year is really, really corrupt, especially at the non commercial price they paid for it, it isn't even the most contemptuous facet of the disgraceful deal.

Put aside the innuendo of corruption, unfairness, vicbias blah blah blah. Ever heard the term "freedom of contract" ?

 

[theyellowsash]

Where do the rights of the member clubs sit in all that?
Would it be considered just a poor business decision if their profits (and even viability) as a going concern were jeopardised by such unilateral decisions clearly benefiting some and not others?

Just asking, I don't really know.

i dont know exactly how the clubs rights sit. they have some say in the league (for example, voting to allow new clubs). but day to day running, which would include where games are played, would likely just be part of the general running of the business. the afl clubs wouldnt have a say in individual decisions, but if enough are unhappy im sure they have some rights to band together and vote for new management.

the fact that the afl is increasing membership, attendance, revenue, participation etc, and the fact that the afl gives every club money each year, probably suggests that any challenge in court to the afl for some kind of negligence or loss of revenue would likely fail. these kinds of things rarely if ever come to "i might have made more money if they did this instead", unless its so grossly disparate that there is a clear and significant loss. The afl can prove theyre running the business as a whole profitably, so no court will rule against individual business decisions just because theyre unpopular with a section of the stakeholders unless there is actual corruption (ie personal gain in kickbacks or profit). keeping in mind the unhappy stakeholder group will be in the minority, considering the victorian clubs are the slim majority of the competition, so even that basis is iffy.

but on the profitability stakes, holding the game outside the mcg will almost half (or more than halve depending where it is) the attendance. are we happy to double (or triple) the ticket prices and all other costs to compensate? sacrificing half or 2/3rds of the possible revenue to play outside the mcg could easily be seen as a worse decision if making money for the clubs is the sole consideration.

again, not defending it. id like to see the gf played elsewhere, though i also think states have a requirement to provide stadiums large enough, or provide funding so that ticket prices etc dont have to increase. just saying its not corruption.

 

[Papa G]

They were only upfront about it after the deal had been done.
And given the incredible deal done in favour of the Victorian government it certainly begs the question as to what other side deals have been done, because the deal doesn't make sense otherwise. If it's not corruption then it's incompetence. Pick one.

Collusion.

 

[theyellowsash]

They were only upfront about it after the deal had been done.
And given the incredible deal done in favour of the Victorian government it certainly begs the question as to what other side deals have been done, because the deal doesn't make sense otherwise. If it's not corruption then it's incompetence. Pick one.

again, does your boss show you the details of every decision they make?

if you're claiming its corruption just because we dont know what else went on, then you have no reason to assume corruption and youre simply slandering.

theres also no basis to say it's incompetence. the afl secured a deal to play the grand final in the largest and best stadium in the state for a set price and with guaranteed upgrades paid for, including to their own assets. the afl could easily defend itself against calls of incompetence by showing how membership, attendance, revenue, participation etc is increasing. you might as well call the AFLW incompetence, since it doesnt make as much money as not running it, so its a 'bad' business decision.

just because you dont like it, doesnt make it incompetent or corrupt.

 

[theyellowsash]

Collusion.

in your definition, every single business deal is collusion.

 

[Dan26]

This just shows so little understanding of the reality of the situation. Idk why anyone is trying to explain just how unfair and parochial it is - people like this are so entitled they will never see anyones point of view, other than their own.

It's not unfair and I'm not entitled. I just live in the real world.

If you want to go to an MCG Grand Final (when Covid dies down), then go. No one is stopping you. We are all Australians.

 

[Dan26]

Yes, actually the cost to 2-3 people for travel

I go to the Grand Final by myself. Why would you bring 2-3 other family members?

accommodation

Why would you need accomodation. If you live a 1-hour plane trip away, then come over the day of the game and go home later that night. I've done that for games in Adelaide and Sydney. If you come from Perth you might need 1 nights' accomodation, but not necessarily. You could catch the red-eye.

tickets

Irrelvant. You have to pay for tickets, regardless of whether you're from Perth or Melbourne.

time off work,

The game is on a weekend. Why would you need time off work?

living expenses,

Living expenses? For a one-day trip? Like what?

But I bet you still don't see the problem.

You are an Australian. You have every right to attempt to get tickets to the Grand Final, and not one person is stopping you from attending. The game doesn't need to be in Perth for you to go. Since when did non-covid Melbourne become this Siberia-like destination, that people are unable to get to? Did I miss the memo?

 

[Ricketz]

why does the process need to have any transparency? does your boss consult you when deciding to move office/factory location?

also, we are not shareholders of the afl. we pay for a membership which allows us to go to games. how they run the business is up to them, and for the most part they are running it well. the afl just needs to point to growing audiences, memberships and revenue to prove that the business decisions they are making are for the good of the business, regardless of whether some people like them or not.

When it is member owned it absolutely should have transparency.

 

[Astro35]

It's not unfair and I'm not entitled. I just live in the real world.

If you want to go to an MCG Grand Final (when Covid dies down), then go. No one is stopping you. We are all Australians.

Cost me $2.5k to go to the 18 GF. How much does it cost you?

 

[OnlyPowerForever]

I go to the Grand Final by myself. Why would you bring 2-3 other family members?



Why would you need accomodation. If you live a 1-hour plane trip away, then come over the day of the game and go home later that night. I've done that for games in Adelaide and Sydney. If you come from Perth you might need 1 nights' accomodation, but not necessarily. You could catch the red-eye.



Irrelvant. You have to pay for tickets, regardless of whether you're from Perth or Melbourne.



The game is on a weekend. Why would you need time off work?



Living expenses? For a one-day trip? Like what?



You are an Australian. You have every right to attempt to get tickets to the Grand Final, and not one person is stopping you from attending. The game doesn't need to be in Perth for you to go. Since when did non-covid Melbourne become this Siberia-like destination, that people are unable to get to? Did I miss the memo?

As I thought, you just don't get it.
You don't get the idea that going to the GF is an event, not a 2 hour football game.
You dont appreciate that some people go to events as a family, not as an individual sitting in a seat.
You dont understand that celebrating or commiserating with your teams supporters isn't just a Melbourne thing, we might want to do that too.
You think that celebration events like a GF parade dont interest us at all, its a Melbourne thing right, you know with the public holiday and all.
You dont see that people work weekends, shift work, night work, hospitality. Maybe Melbourne is still a 5 day 8 hour town, doubt it though.
Based on your response and assuming you weren't being deliberately obtuse, you don't get it at all.
(If you were fishing, yes you've caught one)

 

[Ricketz]

I go to the Grand Final by myself. Why would you bring 2-3 other family members?



Why would you need accomodation. If you live a 1-hour plane trip away, then come over the day of the game and go home later that night. I've done that for games in Adelaide and Sydney. If you come from Perth you might need 1 nights' accomodation, but not necessarily. You could catch the red-eye.



Irrelvant. You have to pay for tickets, regardless of whether you're from Perth or Melbourne.



The game is on a weekend. Why would you need time off work?



Living expenses? For a one-day trip? Like what?



You are an Australian. You have every right to attempt to get tickets to the Grand Final, and not one person is stopping you from attending. The game doesn't need to be in Perth for you to go. Since when did non-covid Melbourne become this Siberia-like destination, that people are unable to get to? Did I miss the memo?

Tldr. I don't have a problem, there is no possibility that anyone else could.

 

[FreoFan85]

I go to the Grand Final by myself. Why would you bring 2-3 other family members?

Why would you need accomodation. If you live a 1-hour plane trip away, then come over the day of the game and go home later that night. I've done that for games in Adelaide and Sydney. If you come from Perth you might need 1 nights' accomodation, but not necessarily. You could catch the red-eye.

Irrelvant. You have to pay for tickets, regardless of whether you're from Perth or Melbourne.

The game is on a weekend. Why would you need time off work?

Living expenses? For a one-day trip? Like what?

You are an Australian. You have every right to attempt to get tickets to the Grand Final, and not one person is stopping you from attending. The game doesn't need to be in Perth for you to go. Since when did non-covid Melbourne become this Siberia-like destination, that people are unable to get to? Did I miss the memo?

- Check out this arrogance...

Why would you bring other people? LOL I'm sure my wife who is a 25 year member would love me just saying "You right with the kids why i jet off."

Accommodation is generally needed because you can't get flights on the day especially if it is one of the states teams playing.

Tickets, a plane ticket right now is approx $700 - $1000, what do you think happens when West Coast make the grand final, or Adelaide or etc in their home state?

You generally can't get flights on the morning of, so you generally would need to fly in on the Friday.

And to add the AFL membership at $625 to get a ticket (when you literally can't use any of the benefits)... unless you constantly fly in and out of Melbourne.


No one is also stopping me from going to Hawaii every weekend.

 

[Purple Suit]

why does the process need to have any transparency? does your boss consult you when deciding to move office/factory location?

also, we are not shareholders of the afl. we pay for a membership which allows us to go to games. how they run the business is up to them, and for the most part they are running it well. the afl just needs to point to growing audiences, memberships and revenue to prove that the business decisions they are making are for the good of the business, regardless of whether some people like them or not.

Shareholders are made aware of big decisions and get to vote. Employees are generally consulted, at least the upper management. This was a 30 year extension on a 20 year contract for pittance.

It is Australia's game that governments/tax payers fund an enormous amount for through community infrastructure. The structure is complicated but they need to be held accountable for how they make decisions and what they do. It is not a normal business. This decision was not good or transparent, that is usually an indication that there are ulterior motives involved.

the fact that the afl is increasing membership, attendance, revenue, participation etc, and the fact that the afl gives every club money each year, probably suggests that any challenge in court to the afl for some kind of negligence or loss of revenue would likely fail. these kinds of things rarely if ever come to "i might have made more money if they did this instead", unless its so grossly disparate that there is a clear and significant loss. The afl can prove theyre running the business as a whole profitably, so no court will rule against individual business decisions just because theyre unpopular with a section of the stakeholders unless there is actual corruption (ie personal gain in kickbacks or profit). keeping in mind the unhappy stakeholder group will be in the minority, considering the victorian clubs are the slim majority of the competition, so even that basis is iffy.

but on the profitability stakes, holding the game outside the mcg will almost half (or more than halve depending where it is) the attendance. are we happy to double (or triple) the ticket prices and all other costs to compensate? sacrificing half or 2/3rds of the possible revenue to play outside the mcg could easily be seen as a worse decision if making money for the clubs is the sole consideration.

again, not defending it. id like to see the gf played elsewhere, though i also think states have a requirement to provide stadiums large enough, or provide funding so that ticket prices etc dont have to increase. just saying its not corruption.

The AFL showed it's hand last year that money was not important by having the GF at the Gabba. Despite massive losses, it went ahead with the travel junket that all their families could attend. It is clear that this is no longer the point of the GF so it can't change it now.

Also, increasing memberships is an absolute farce. It just moved the goal posts and any game membership is now counted the same as an 11 game membership. Records are all out the window so the can continue to hit their KPI's and give themselves big bonuses.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Shareholders are made aware of big decisions and get to vote. Employees are generally consulted, at least the upper management. This was a 30 year extension on a 20 year contract for pittance.

It is Australia's game that governments/tax payers fund an enormous amount for through community infrastructure. The structure is complicated but they need to be held accountable for how they make decisions and what they do. It is not a normal business. This decision was not good or transparent, that is usually an indication that there are ulterior motives involved.


The AFL showed it's hand last year that money was not important by having the GF at the Gabba. Despite massive losses, it went ahead with the travel junket that all their families could attend. It is clear that this is no longer the point of the GF so it can't change it now.

Also, increasing memberships is an absolute farce. It just moved the goal posts and any game membership is now counted the same as an 11 game membership. Records are all out the window so the can continue to hit their KPI's and give themselves big bonuses.

So you are making many assumptions here, let's see you link some proof before people say you are full of it.

 

[Purple Suit]

So you are making many assumptions here, let's see you link some proof before people say you are full of it.

So you are making assumptions I know what specific points you are referring to and want proof for, just so you can say I'm full of it.

 

[LoungeLizard]

So you are making assumptions I know what specific points you are referring to and want proof for, just so you can say I'm full of it.

So you can't back up what you are saying with proof?

It's quite funny, having a go at the AFL, but you seem to be making shit up as you go.

 

[Ricketz]

So you can't back up what you are saying with proof?

It's quite funny, having a go at the AFL, but you seem to be making sh*t up as you go.

Noone knows what you are referring to mate. Build a full sentence first.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Noone knows what you are referring to mate. Build a full sentence first.

It's ok mate, if you think the poster is telling the truth, you provide the proof for them.

Until then, I will say it's BS.

1st show us how the AFL would have made more money holding the GF anywhere but Brissy last year, show us what WA offered then what Brissy did, i remember an article saying WA offered $0.

Next show us how members of each club counted.

 

[Coolangatta]

I've read that in addition to the massive logistical challenge of organising a grand final in pre-Covid times, there's no way you're going to move a grand final venue 5 weeks or 2 weeks before, especially with international arrivals. Also, the facilities need to be of a high standard, which currently rules out Brisbane and Sydney as potential grand final hosts.

The other problem is selling out a grand final in Sydney or Brisbane if local teams aren't involved, particularly Sydney, as apparently they struggle to sell out NRL grand finals. It sounds like if you were to make a new contract, Sydney and Brisbane need to build new world-class stadiums (which Brissy are doing) and grow the game more before they're considered GF hosts.

So, with all that in consideration, I'd go with:

22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, 34 MCG
23, 27, 31, Adelaide Oval
25, 29, 33, Optus

Come 2035, Brisbane would be ready to host, then perhaps Sydney come into the equation in the 2040s.

Vic's will never give up that contract, though.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Why do so many hate the MCG? I think it’s awesome and a great place for the GF.
Just need to fix how they allocate tickets and how they charge.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Why do so many hate the MCG? I think it’s awesome and a great place for the GF.
Just need to fix how they allocate tickets and how they charge.

Most Vics are all for the GF getting moved/rotated, but most know it isn't going to happen, now we just laugh at the tears.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Most Vics are all for the GF getting moved/rotated, but most know it isn't going to happen, now we just laugh at the tears.

Well you get plenty of ammo for your humor.

 

[Dan26]

- Check out this arrogance...

Why would you bring other people? LOL I'm sure my wife who is a 25 year member would love me just saying "You right with the kids why i jet off."

If your team is in the Grand Final (which in an 18-team competition, should happen, on average once every 9 years, a $2500 cost for you and your family, equals 76 cents per day.

if your team is NOT in the Grand Final, and you want to go, then you wouldn't wait until the week before the game to book flights and accomodation. You'd book flights and accomodation 6 months in advance at 1/3rd of the cost. So why not do this, if you want to go every year? A flight booked 6 months in advance is not expensive.

Accommodation is generally needed because you can't get flights on the day especially if it is one of the states teams playing.

So book cheaply in advance if you want to go the Grand Final every year. It's 2021. Flight travel is easy and uncomplicated.

Tickets, a plane ticket right now is approx $700 - $1000, what do you think happens when West Coast make the grand final, or Adelaide or etc in their home state?

So? If your teams is the GF (once every 9 years on average) I'm sure you can handle the 76 cents per day.

If your team is not in the GF, you book in advance, and it's way, way, cheaper.

Melbourne is not Siberia. It's not that hard, or expensive to come here.