Big trades for brighter future

[in the blues]

Will we win a premiership with Fraser, Didak and Davis. All very good players and all make very good trade bait. None of these players show real strength over the ball especially when its their time to go. Fear has pulled their football back a couple of notches. Fraser wont put his hands over his head for a mark wont jump in the ruck he simply gets towel up against quality RUCKS. Didak is scared of his own shadow. but basically none of these players have that inner spirit to dig deep when needed. So if every one else rates them it should be great rewards for us.

 

[Pies_10]

I agree with Fraser but strongly disagree with your views on Didak and Davis.

 

[donnie5]

i reckon we throw fraser and 3+4 round picks at Sandilands. He is exactly what we need. I strongly disagree with Didak and Davis.

 

[shawthing09]

The problem is especially with Fraser and Davis, due to age and other stigma's like Fraser's body and Davis's finals they are both more probably more value to the team then on a trade market. Davis is an AA player whose football has steadily improved and has great hurt factor. He still has plenty of value and at 29 his trade value isn't as high as his playing value.

Fraser's body is really troubling him and he is struggling and should be overtaken by Wood as our number one ruck. That said other teams can see this too and therefore he has little trade value. Our best bet would have probably been to leave him uncontracted for GC17 in the hope that they took him. On a system of age, draft pick used to take him and best and fairest preformances his value is probably much higher then it is in playing or trade terms.

Didak is an intresting one. I was all for trading him at the end of last year when it was thought that Port would offer pick 4. If that was the offer I shudder and wonder how nice Rich would have looked in black and white. That said there is no point looking back at what if's. Didak is a great player and arguably our most damaging. The problem is where does he sit. As a midfielder he is fairly outside and lacks pace and isn't the greatest gut runner in the league. This makes him too easy to tag IMO. I still think his best football is played on the HFF where a lower possesion count will still have high damage rather then 20 possies with most coming behind the ball.

 

[mattys123]

I'll throw a "wild one" out there.

Collingwood trades; Josh Fraser, Leon Davis and Pick 14

For;

Richmond's pick number 3.

And we use the subsequent pick to get a "gun" forward in John Butcher.

Not much chance of this happening, but I think Collingwood need a tall star for the future, and I can't see us getting one without trading up in the draft.

 

[HFF]

Cannot have a team of just insiders.

Fact of the matter is Davis/Didak are elite outside players who offer us the ultimate damage/hurt factor.

Every side has these types of players and they are required to provide polish and class.

Rotating them between HFF/midfield/wing has worked well for us and compliment the honest grunt types of SOB and Tarkyn Lockyer.

Can never have enough class players.

In regards to Josh, his value to us is alot more than what it is to other clubs. I think the club is managing him poorly.

We cannot risk rucking him solo anymore. Twice in 3yrs he has missed Prelim finals. He needs genuine RUCK support i.e. Wood, not pinch hitters like Leroy Brown.

Also, even if it means giving Fraser 1 week off every month to get him through the season without breaking down we should do it because his absence in some crucial games sees to hurt us.

 

[didaka]

The only club I can honestly see interested in recruiting Fraser would be Sydney as they seem to be in the market for an experienced ruckman to team up with Jolly. Maybe Port Adelaide with Lade retiring.

I can't see to much being offered up though.

 

[Quicky]

Will we win a premiership with Fraser, Didak and Davis. All very good players and all make very good trade bait. None of these players show real strength over the ball especially when its their time to go. Fear has pulled their football back a couple of notches. Fraser wont put his hands over his head for a mark wont jump in the ruck he simply gets towel up against quality RUCKS. Didak is scared of his own shadow. but basically none of these players have that inner spirit to dig deep when needed. So if every one else rates them it should be great rewards for us.

I get where you are coming from with this but I think you are looking at it a bit in the wrong way.

Firstly on Fraser he wouldn't have much trade value with his durability and age. As such is it worth getting rid of him for what he would be worth?? He is probably worth more to us at the club than he is worth in a trade. Also if we get rid of him, he would need to be replaced. Wood is the only other ruck on our list ready to play senior football. We would have to land one of Charman or Seaby if we got rid of Fraser - if not trading him would be a very silly decision.

I also see where you are coming from with Davis and Didak as both those players would be worth alot in a trade. We still need polished outside players to finish off the work of our young onball brigade. The question is will our young onball brigade (Beams, Sidebottom, McCarthy, Wellingham) mature before Didak and Davis are too old to have a tilt at a premieship. Both would be early 30's by the time those guys have matured enough you'd think. It is an interesting thought. If we do get rid of either we would likely have to recruit more outside mids as well as we have few obvious replacements. We would want to get very good value out of either if we did trade them - a pick inside the top 10 and maybe a promising player. Unless we got an exceptional offer for them we would be stupid not to keep them. They will be very valueable players to us when our younger guys can handle more of the inside work.

 

[nuttinbutapeanut]

didak and davis wont be traded ....rofl...

 

[shawthing09]

Realistically Didak won't be traded. If he was seen as tradeable it would have happened last year.

I don't like the idea that being a skillful outside player excuses you from having to go when it's your turn. Hawthorn are the best example in guys like Bateman and Lewis play fairly outside roles their but are both as commited as any when it is their turn to go. Thomas is in a similar mould for us.

I think trading both would be crazy but I'd deffiantely shop one around. IMO it would be Didak as he is the player on our list who has genuine trade value who I am not totally against trading. For an "outside mid" he offers very little in terms of run and carry. A guy like Sidebottom who has great kicking skills could easily play a link man role like Didak tends to in the midfield. The real X factor that Didak has that seperates him from a run of the mill linking player is his goal sense.

I am not sure what Davis would be worth on the open market it would be intresting though.

 

[King Woodie]

Didak is an intresting one. I was all for trading him at the end of last year when it was thought that Port would offer pick 4. If that was the offer I shudder and wonder how nice Rich would have looked in black and white.

I agree, and was an advocate of getting this trade done. Having said that, I think his trade value would have only increased after his year this year. Rich / Hartlett / Hurley / Ziebell would have been great along with Sidebottom and Beams (and Blight, Blair, etc).

I think we need to focus on one or another "peaking period", rather than two. I would not be against stocking up on good 23-25 year olds now by offering up Fraser, Davis, Didak, but it would mean Malthouse would have to give away his crack at the flag to significantly improve Buckley's chances, and this will not happen. So having said that, I have come to the realisation that we will just try to contend every single year on its own merits, and most likely will not quite get there before the GC / WS decade of dominance comes in.

 

[shawthing09]

I mentioned Jordan Lewis. He is supposedly one that Hawthorn intrested in seeing what he attracts what do people think will get the job done there and would people be keen on getting him?

 

[Hells K1tch3n]

Seems like a few people are on the same page as me...

A few things that we "know"

Sydney like to "top up" and do put great value on ruckman, and could be looking to team someone up with Jolly, they are rumoured to be looking at Seaby.

Richmond have no lead up forwards, but plenty of midfielders.

West Coast have said they will trade for a goal kicking small forward.

I propose a series of trades that will get us the 'gun' tall forward we need, the midfield star that we need and a back up ruckman to team with Wood.

Fraser, Lovett and 30-> Sydney
Picks 6 and 10-> Collingwood
Picks 14, 22 and Buchannen-> Essendon
Essendon get a small forward to compliment Monfries, and offload a player who wants to leave, whilst not losing much on the pick downgrade and another top 25 pick.
Sydney get their extra running back, and a Ruckman that can go forward, will work well in tandem with Jolly and Goodes for a few years.
Collingwood get the 2 top 10 picks to give better leverage in trade week.
Cloke and pick 6 -> Richmond
Deledio, Tuck and Pick 3 -> Collingwood
Cloke is not the type of forward we need atm. I honestly believe there is no point having the really good lead up forward if you dont have a target for him to kick to in the forward 50. We can cover the loss of Cloke with dawes, or even have Medders play the lead up role similar to 2008 when Cloke was injured. Richmond maintain the early draft pick to add a midfielder, which will probably come down to the one that Kangas dont pick out of Martin and Gary Rohan. They gain the lead up forward they do need, whilst getting good value for Lids and Tuck.
Davis, Cox and Pick 10 -> West Coast
Seaby and Kerr -> Collingwood
West Coast are rebuilding the awesome midfield, and whilst keeping Kerr would probably benefit the likes of Swift, Ebert, Masten and Hurn, but they all did pretty well without him for most of 2009 and WCE might be better served to offload Kerr while his stocks are still high. They have stated they are looking for a forward pocket / small crumbing forward, and Davis would work well off of Big Q and JK. Cox is a bit of a sweetener in the deal, he would relish the wide open spaces of subi, and could become a very good player for WCE, with the extra top 10 pick, they could afford to look at trading with Carlton for Yarran, or even essendon for Jetta, whilst keeping a top 10 pick. For Collingwood, we gain the inside midfielder to help out pendles, and also creates havoc for opposition match ups... who do you tag? Pendles, Swan, Didak, Kerr etc... I think Collingwood could also request for someone like Ash Hanson to be thrown in, to provide another lead up target incase Dawes is injured.
In: Kerr, Deledio, Tuck, Seaby and Butcher
Out: Fraser, Cloke, Davis, Cox, Picks 14 and 30

Those additions make us alot more dangerous all over the ground, and while we do lose one of the small medium forwards that make us dangerous, I really feel that Davis can be covered. We really do need to draft a key forward who is going to provide a contest inside the forward 50.

Midfield ground becomes:

A Grade:
Swan
Pendlebury
Kerr
Deledio
Didak

B Grade:
Thomas
Beams
Sidey
Tuck
Wellingham
Wood
Obree
Lockyer

C Grade:
McCarthy
Seaby

Other than the trades above, I would look at some speculative trades, some very fringe players for mid 30's picks.

 

[peter9789]

Cannot have a team of just insiders.

Fact of the matter is Davis/Didak are elite outside players who offer us the ultimate damage/hurt factor.

Every side has these types of players and they are required to provide polish and class.

Rotating them between HFF/midfield/wing has worked well for us and compliment the honest grunt types of SOB and Tarkyn Lockyer.

Can never have enough class players.

In regards to Josh, his value to us is alot more than what it is to other clubs. I think the club is managing him poorly.

We cannot risk rucking him solo anymore. Twice in 3yrs he has missed Prelim finals. He needs genuine RUCK support i.e. Wood, not pinch hitters like Leroy Brown.

Also, even if it means giving Fraser 1 week off every month to get him through the season without breaking down we should do it because his absence in some crucial games sees to hurt us.

All true but little value to the team if they consistently fail to perform when it matters most - in finals.

 

[Quicky]

I mentioned Jordan Lewis. He is supposedly one that Hawthorn intrested in seeing what he attracts what do people think will get the job done there and would people be keen on getting him?

I think he would add that toughness to the midfield group that we need. I always thought of him as an inside mid not outside but has probably been pushed out by Mitchell and Sewell. What would he cost?? I wouldn't give up our first rounder - there are just more pressing needs on our list we would need it for. Maybe a player like Goldsack would interest them.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Cloke and pick 6 -> Richmond
Deledio, Tuck and Pick 3 -> Collingwood



Even Richmond aren't that stupid.

Why would they trade their best player for Cloke AND downgrade a top 3 pick. Dreaming!!!

 

[datwhitey]

I like your thinking, Hell's Kitchen, and if this occurred I would not be unhappy at all (I might miss the brilliance of Davis, but it would be for the greater good). Of course you & I know that we are more likely to trade someone like Cox & downgrade a draft pick for another Chad Morrison! But one can only hope we see some imagination (and balls) from the 'Pies over trade week.

 

[Hells K1tch3n]

I guess it really depends on how Hardwick approaches coaching. Honestly, is he really going to want such an outside player like Deledio, will he put a premium on a lead up forward. Sure he hasnt had such a great year, but lead up players of his quality with 100 games arent cheap, and in this draft there isnt much difference between pick 3 and 6, especially if you're looking for a midfielder cause you have already traded for a KPP...

 

[cooper6]

i reckon we throw fraser and 3+4 round picks at Sandilands. He is exactly what we need. I strongly disagree with Didak and Davis.

Haha, and Im sure they'd pounce on that! Fraser and your first round pick would not even be close to enough.

 

[Rioli magic]

Hawthorn don't want to trade Lewis and have said so. Choco Williams just said that he wanted him for Burgoyne. If he was available, I think your 1st rounder would fall well short too.

I think you should keep Didak and play him at HFF/High half forward so he's either kicking for goal or setting someone up. If you pick up a Seaby could Fraser play forward like Kosi does which would add another tall forward for nothing and make Anthony the 3rd tall, which I think is more suited. Not sure if Fraser is good overhead though? I think you got a really good young midfield just need to get games and size into them.

 

[Quicky]

Hawthorn don't want to trade Lewis and have said so. Choco Williams just said that he wanted him for Burgoyne. If he was available, I think your 1st rounder would fall well short too.

I think you should keep Didak and play him at HFF/High half forward so he's either kicking for goal or setting someone up. If you pick up a Seaby could Fraser play forward like Kosi does which would add another tall forward for nothing and make Anthony the 3rd tall, which I think is more suited. Not sure if Fraser is good overhead though? I think you got a really good young midfield just need to get games and size into them.

Cheers for the info

Fraser is a terrible forward. He has only ever been effective when he moves forward from the ruck to create a mismatch. He isn't quick enough on the lead or a good enough mark to be a good permanent forward.

 

[King Woodie]

In: Kerr, Deledio, Tuck, Seaby and Butcher
Out: Fraser, Cloke, Davis, Cox, Picks 14 and 30

You have thought through this well, Hells, so kudos to you, but to be honest, the first two trades at least significantly favour Collingwood.

 

[Tiger Battler]

Cloke and pick 6 -> Richmond
Deledio, Tuck and Pick 3 -> Collingwood

hahahahahaha. Worst trade I have seen for the Tigers.

I would not even trade Deledio for Cloke and pick 6. Cloke has had a terrible year so his value for trade has dropped a fair bit. Deledio is our best player so you have no chance of getting him.

 

[Heisenberg_]

I guess it really depends on how Hardwick approaches coaching. Honestly, is he really going to want such an outside player like Deledio, will he put a premium on a lead up forward. Sure he hasnt had such a great year, but lead up players of his quality with 100 games arent cheap, and in this draft there isnt much difference between pick 3 and 6, especially if you're looking for a midfielder cause you have already traded for a KPP...

Unlucky for you that hardwick isnt a complete moron like you. Deledio, tuck and pick 3 for pick 6 and travis cloke. Get off it you idiot.

 

[itwdandy]

Will we win a premiership with Fraser, Didak and Davis.

No Yes and Yes!!!