Bigfooty Yid Army Thread

[Art Vandelay_]

Care to explain Levy’s outright lie about the stadium not impacting transfer budgets?

Also, how many effing times do I have to tell you until you get it through your rather thick skull that Levy’s job is to back his manager in the transfer market NOT find cheap junk that his manager doesn’t want? Pochettino never asked for a £200m war chest but he did want certain players that Levy refused to sign.

And barring one season that happened.

Poch started off wanting to build from the back. He chose Wimmer, Davies and Vorm. He wanted Alderweireld.
He wanted to reunite with Wanyama, he chose Dier.

He asked for a good centrehalf and chose Sanchez. Club broke its transfer record to get him. Not their fault he's stagnated. Actually that is Mauricio's, found a good vein of form in his first season when Jan (from memory) got injured, and then the following season he benched him to placate Toby to try and get him to agree a new contract. That's where the stagnation started.
He wanted us to beat PSG to Foyth. They did.
He wanted a good young ball playing midfielder. They broke the club record for Ndombele. Not their fault he's a fat arse who gets puffed out just pulling on his boots.
Wanted a replacement for Eriksen. They targeted Bruno, Dybala and Gio. Got Gio who has looked our best player in recent months.

They found him Grealish (who United now may pay 70m to get) and he turned him down.
Barring one season where Chairman AND MANAGER both dropped the ball he was backed.

That is the difference, The drips in here are carrying on like that one season is solely the problem and Levy is solely to blame.
It isn't and he isn't. He is partly to blame for that season, never stated otherwise but what's happening now goes beyond the problems of that season.

Everyone in here says we need new CB's. Maybe we need one, wouldn't be so urgent if Poch could pick a good one. Wimmer, Foyth and Sanchez.
Doesn't excuse Jose playing Dier in defence when Dier in midfield has been the only recipe under Mourinho that has seen wins.

Most don't like Aurier, yet Pochettino wanted to sell Walker, chose to sell Trippier and CHOSE to give NO opportunities to Kyle Walker-Peters.
How about Winks in midfield. He was a boss in both legs v Madrid absolutely bitch slapping Casemiro, Kroos and Modric (alongside Dembele). Got injured and Poch brought him back in the second half of last season as the DM alongside Sissoko given Wanyama (his signing) was injured and Dier was having appendicitis related illnesses. Since then Winks has been a shadow of the player he was before that. Part of that falls on Poch using him poorly but I suspect it is mostly injury based and you rightly raised him earlier as an injury prone player to make a decision on. Where on earth is Skipp? Barely seen also. Play or loan or then end up like KWP

Our 5 year search for a good back up striker is proving problematic too. That goes far beyond two windows where the manager and chairman couldn't find a player to buy. Both Daniel and Mauricio made a big error letting Llorente leave. Surely you agree with that?

We can moan about players in positions a,b and c being unavailable and positions d, e and f needing reinforcement but Jose repeatedly chooses to pick poor midfield combos and we get absolutely overrun by nearly every side. Amusing that our midfield is still the achilles heal and yet Poch had two quality midfielders purchased for him last August.

Also the board botched the contract situations of Toby, Eriksen and Jan and that had an effect too, in more ways than one.
Therein lies the difference, I can, and do find areas that this board and ownership drop the ball, but don't fall for, or believe the common view that they are responsible for every failing that befalls us.

Jose's team selections of late have been bizarre, even accounting for the injury crisis being faced at present.

Pochettino never asked for a £200m war chest but he did want certain players that Levy refused to sign.

No. But morons in here stating that is what's needed.

And finally, if you think the 8th best team in the Premier League should have the most expensive season tickets then you truly are a moron. Nobody wants to sit in a comfy seat at the expense of watching us get turned over by Norwich. You know how I know this? Because I put several thousand quid over the counter every year to fly over and watch us play. So don’t effing tell me I don’t know what I am talking about. I materially support the club whilst you suck Levy’s utensil from your basement.

That's nice dear.
Don't like it then don't spend it. Someone else will, nothing more surer.

Don't tell anyone in here they don't support the club, we all care about the club to passionately talk about THFC to strangers.

I just do not agree with the root cause of our problems and NO ONE in here has mounted a good case to the contrary because NO ONE in here can properly refute that there is 500m approx of debt to repay. Whoopty do the chairman said it wouldn't affect it, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it would and that it has. Have we learned nothing from Woolwich???

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

And barring one season that happened.

Poch started off wanting to build from the back. He chose Wimmer, Davies and Vorm. He wanted Alderweireld.
He wanted to reunite with Wanyama, he chose Dier.

He asked for a good centrehalf and chose Sanchez. Club broke its transfer record to get him. Not their fault he's stagnated. Actually that is Mauricio's, found a good vein of form in his first season when Jan (from memory) got injured, and then the following season he benched him to placate Toby to try and get him to agree a new contract. That's where the stagnation started.
He wanted us to beat PSG to Foyth. They did.
He wanted a good young ball playing midfielder. They broke the club record for Ndombele. Not their fault he's a fat arse who gets puffed out just pulling on his boots.
Wanted a replacement for Eriksen. They targeted Bruno, Dybala and Gio. Got Gio who has looked our best player in recent months.

They found him Grealish (who United now may pay 70m to get) and he turned him down.
Barring one season where Chairman AND MANAGER both dropped the ball he was backed.

That is the difference, The drips in here are carrying on like that one season is solely the problem and Levy is solely to blame.
It isn't and he isn't. He is partly to blame for that season, never stated otherwise but what's happening now goes beyond the problems of that season.

Everyone in here says we need new CB's. Maybe we need one, wouldn't be so urgent if Poch could pick a good one. Wimmer, Foyth and Sanchez.
Doesn't excuse Jose playing Dier in defence when Dier in midfield has been the only recipe under Mourinho that has seen wins.

Most don't like Aurier, yet Pochettino wanted to sell Walker, chose to sell Trippier and CHOSE to give NO opportunities to Kyle Walker-Peters.
How about Winks in midfield. He was a boss in both legs v Madrid absolutely bitch slapping Casemiro, Kroos and Modric (alongside Dembele). Got injured and Poch brought him back in the second half of last season as the DM alongside Sissoko given Wanyama (his signing) was injured and Dier was having appendicitis related illnesses. Since then Winks has been a shadow of the player he was before that. Part of that falls on Poch using him poorly but I suspect it is mostly injury based and you rightly raised him earlier as an injury prone player to make a decision on. Where on earth is Skipp? Barely seen also. Play or loan or then end up like KWP

Our 5 year search for a good back up striker is proving problematic too. That goes far beyond two windows where the manager and chairman couldn't find a player to buy. Both Daniel and Mauricio made a big error letting Llorente leave. Surely you agree with that?

We can moan about players in positions a,b and c being unavailable and positions d, e and f needing reinforcement but Jose repeatedly chooses to pick poor midfield combos and we get absolutely overrun by nearly every side. Amusing that our midfield is still the achilles heal and yet Poch had two quality midfielders purchased for him last August.

Also the board botched the contract situations of Toby, Eriksen and Jan and that had an effect too, in more ways than one.
Therein lies the difference, I can, and do find areas that this board and ownership drop the ball, but don't fall for, or believe the common view that they are responsible for every failing that befalls us.

Jose's team selections of late have been bizarre, even accounting for the injury crisis being faced at present.

No. But morons in here stating that is what's needed.

That's nice dear.
Don't like it then don't spend it. Someone else will, nothing more surer.

Don't tell anyone in here they don't support the club, we all care about the club to passionately talk about THFC to strangers.

I just do not agree with the root cause of our problems and NO ONE in here has mounted a good case to the contrary because NO ONE in here can properly refute that there is 500m approx of debt to repay. Whoopty do the chairman said it wouldn't affect it, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it would and that it has. Have we learned nothing from Woolwich???

I never claimed that you don’t support the club but you don’t exactly endear yourself to people when you call everyone who disagrees with you a moron.

You continue to back Levy and that is fine. You also acknowledge in your final paragraph that he has lied to the fans about transfer policy. So that is something. But you cannot possibly have the front to call us who have had enough “morons” because frankly we are sick of the false hope and sick of the lies. On a personal note I planned a trip last year to attend a couple of matches at the new stadium and despite paying himself a massive “stadium” bonus Levy couldn’t even get it finished on time. So I ended up out at Wembley which was a major disappointment.

An interesting and rather odd comment you made was the point about somebody else will pay to see us if I don’t. All I can say is that I hope Levy doesn’t take that view in the longer term (or our new owners whenever that happens). Fans vote with their feet and if you think they will continue to pay big money to support the club by attending games and buying merchandise when we are as bad and as directionless as we are at present then I think you will be in for a rude shock.

What you don’t seem to understand is that paying off the stadium is predicated on it being full and us generating revenues from CL football. What do you think happens with a prolonged period without CL football, which will undoubtedly commence from next season? How do you suppose ENIC fund a stadium that nobody attends (and crowds will diminish) without the added cash injection from CL inclusion? How do you think that affects the already thin transfer budget? How do we attract the requisite talent with less cash and no CL to offer? How do we stop the spiral under those circumstances that follow each other just as night follows day?

It is not quite as simple as running the squad on the cheap and using the excess to pay down the debt. ENIC needs a strong and watchable team to fund it all.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I never claimed that you don’t support the club but you don’t exactly endear yourself to people when you call everyone who disagrees with you a moron

if you’d been here for a while you’d know tweedledee and tweedledum have been jumping all over every remark I pass regardless of its content. Creating insulting nicknames, despite most of the time being wrong and I ending up right.

What you see now is a man who no longer gives a s**t and has decided if I get no basic human respect then I will give none back.

My only comment on today’s game was regarding 3 kids being on the bench and having lots of players out. Jose has himself recently mentioned the impact injuries have had

WealstoneRaider jumped on it then later had the gall to suggest I started the insults. Bullshit.

If you got caught in the middle I’m sorry. WR and JD will improve their tone or the return fire will be relentless. I’m not here to make friends, I like everyone else here, just wishes to express views on the club.

When a simple remark about our bench gets such a strong rebuke well yeah I’ll defend myself and if that leads us back down the well trodden Levy rabbit hole then so be it. Hint there WR, you want to avoid that crap then stop jumping down my throat.

You continue to back Levy and that is fine. You also acknowledge in your final paragraph that he has lied to the fans about transfer policy. So that is something. But you cannot possibly have the front to call us who have had enough “morons” because frankly we are sick of the false hope and sick of the lies. On a personal note I planned a trip last year to attend a couple of matches at the new stadium and despite paying himself a massive “stadium” bonus Levy couldn’t even get it finished on time. So I ended up out at Wembley which was a major disappointment.

IMV this sense of false hope you mention comes about from a core part of the fanbase not being able to accurately identify what we are, what we were, and what we want to be.

What we were was a s**t league side that from time to prioritised cup competitions and won them. What we were was a club that won domestic cups but largely was inoffensive as a league side but had two great periods under Nicholson and Burkinshaw.

United have been similar in that they really only have two great eras under Busby and Sir Alex. Theirs had higher peaks and the latter coincided with the EPL explosion which has now propelled them to mega club status.

What we are is a club that is on and off the pitch inferior to Liverpool, the two London scum and the Two manc clubs. That’s where we are.

What we want to be is one of them. To do that we have to firstly compete with them off field. We must bridge the financial gap, yes Blueboys11 points out our revenue this year is higher than both London clubs. They spent last year in Europa and we got 100m from our CL run. That was met with our biggest transfer spend since the Bale sale season. We’re not on those 5 financial level yet (sustainably) and until we get there we will not sustainably compete for higher honours.

but it comes at a cost. We’re stuck in a sort of middle ground atm in that we no longer pay little attention to the league (other than avoiding relegation) preferencing cup runs but don’t either look like title challengers.

So a question for you to ponder given this no man’s land status irks so many, which do you want us to be? A league team or a cup team? For the immediate future we need to pick one or the other.

The goal is to achieve what Chelsea and City have, and that is to gatecrash the elite and become a club that can do both. We presently can’t.

This false hope stems from the core belief that we should be in that last group, without considering the building blocks that must be built and put in place in order for that to be achieved.

I do get a sense in here that most would rather us having spent 50-100m more the last couple of seasons so that we can be seen to be “backing the manager” and thus having a stadium debt of 800m instead.

I could almost guarantee without knowing that Merrill Lynch, goldman sachs and HSBC will have a wages to revenue % cap placed on us, just like what happened with Woolwich. Iirc theirs was somewhere around 50-52% of revenue. This would be in the bottom 5 in the EPL btw.

Tottenham refinance £637m stadium debt but purse strings will not loosen | Tottenham Hotspur | The Guardian

Daniel Levy has insisted he will continue to run Tottenham in the same way as in the past after announcing a refinancing of the club’s stadium loans

amp.theguardian.com

Dated September 2019. Despite converting a lot of the debt to long term bonds it will have no effect (loosening) on short term transfer policy.

“We could have easily spent more money on players. Who knows if that would have bought us more success or not. The right approach is to build from the bottom up. There is no quick fix to becoming a much more significant global club.”

So Cryptkeeper given that is from the horses mouth. Do you want to build from the bottom up and be like on of the 5 clubs that amass an overwhelming proportion if domestic silverware? Or do you want to throw caution to the wind for short term success (not guaranteed) and potentially erode this slow build from the bottom they are talking about?

An interesting and rather odd comment you made was the point about somebody else will pay to see us if I don’t. All I can say is that I hope Levy doesn’t take that view in the longer term (or our new owners whenever that happens). Fans vote with their feet and if you think they will continue to pay big money to support the club by attending games and buying merchandise when we are as bad and as directionless as we are at present then I think you will be in for a rude shock.

I meant from a generic viewpoint that if you don’t like the product on offer then save your money.

We are far from directionless. This club has had the same goals and direction since 2003. Some are becoming impatient with that. Others like me can see what they are trying to achieve and are willing to stick it out. That’s fine.

What you don’t seem to understand is that paying off the stadium is predicated on it being full and us generating revenues from CL football. What do you think happens with a prolonged period without CL football, which will undoubtedly commence from next season? How do you suppose ENIC fund a stadium that nobody attends (and crowds will diminish) without the added cash injection from CL inclusion? How do you think that affects the already thin transfer budget? How do we attract the requisite talent with less cash and no CL to offer? How do we stop the spiral under those circumstances that follow each other just as night follows day?

Not predicated at all I don’t think. They’ll be able to pay if off eventually even without CL football.

Yeah atm the football is bad. The squad severely under-performing and bereft of many players to choose from. We’re all hurting from that, but I’d almost guarentee that next season without CL football (or even EL) that the stadium will be full for league games. Cup games probably not, but if priced right cup matches have always been about a chance for families to go and watch their side play.

It is not quite as simple as running the squad on the cheap and using the excess to pay down the debt. ENIC needs a strong and watchable team to fund it all.

And I contend that if the players Pochettino wanted and they got for him had been better then predicament we’re in would be far less severe. Seems like he chose players that are still big question marks going forward.

Namely Davinson and Ndombele, and there are more that have already been sold. Nail more of our transfers than we have recently and this team would right now be more watchable.

 

[jd2010]

Every single one of Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, AVB, Poch and now Mourinho has made mistakes in their time as spurs manager. But every single one of them bar Mourinho was given a short straw when needed most

Jol - sacked mid UEFA cup game, poor scouting network tried replacing Carrick and Davids with Zokora

Ramos - on the back of winning the only enic trophy the club's 2 best players berbatov and Keane were sold. Replaced by Frazier Campbell

Redknapp - wasn't trusted that he wanted to job long term so only short term measures like Saha and Nelson were signed instead of Suarez and Gary Cahill

AVB - wasn't trusted with transfers so Baldini was brought in to spend Bale money

Poch - wanted a squad rebuild but was given a light touch version of that in the past summer, took this club to 2nd best in the land and rather than given money and support to maintain that or grow it we signed not a single player until the January window when a PSG bench player was added.

In 2020 there's no point going on about these managers faults or mistakes, they're all gone. But one person who was there for it all and made the mistakes above isn't

 

[jd2010]

The person still at the club who wrongly escapes all criticism is chief scout Steve Hitchen. He's been as big a failure as baldini yet wrongly we point the finger at the manager and Levy. In fairness levy did hire him and can fire him so he has to come in for some of Hitchens blame

 

[citizen-erased]

We miss Paul Mitchell

 

[jd2010]

We miss Paul Mitchell

Fell out with Levy and built the side who dismantled us yesterday

 

[jd2010]

Arnesen
Comolli
Baldini
Mitchell

Am I missing any of our head of scouting operations?

 

[WealstoneRaider]

What Gero completely fails to understand time and time again is the need for boards to sometimes speculate to accumulate. What attracts support to your club in vast numbers is being winners, and I’m afraid that actually means delivering silverware. We had the chance to do that over the last decade but Levy bottled it and has played it too cautious. We may not get a better opportunity in many a year

 

[citizen-erased]

Fell out with Levy and built the side who dismantled us yesterday

He scouted well at Southampton too. Made them a lot of money with the targets he found.

This Leipzig squad he's built is impressive.
Upa, Konate, Kloster, Haidara, Sabitzer, Poulsen/Werner, Mukiele - would all be quite helpful at the moment.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

What Gero completely fails to understand time and time again is the need for boards to sometimes speculate to accumulate. What attracts support to your club in vast numbers is being winners, and I’m afraid that actually means delivering silverware. We had the chance to do that over the last decade but Levy bottled it and has played it too cautious. We may not get a better opportunity in many a year

So chalk WR up as a member of the shortcut group.
You either build properly or don’t even bother. Speculating doesn’t guarantee success but does guarantee an erosion of financial stability.

You sound like what you really want is the spending of Man City with gay abandon but not their shady human rights practices or state ownership.

Sorry but that type of spending comes with that type of character.

 

[jd2010]

So chalk WR up as a member of the shortcut group.
You either build properly or don’t even bother. Speculating doesn’t guarantee success but does guarantee an erosion of financial stability.

You sound like what you really want is the spending of Man City with gay abandon but not their shady human rights practices or state ownership.

Sorry but that type of spending comes with that type of character.

United and Liverpool have shady human rights practices?

 

[jd2010]

He scouted well at Southampton too. Made them a lot of money with the targets he found.

This Leipzig squad he's built is impressive.
Upa, Konate, Kloster, Haidara, Sabitzer, Poulsen/Werner, Mukiele - would all be quite helpful at the moment.

He did pretty well with us too. Dele, Dier, Son & Toby were all Mitchell

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

if you’d been here for a while you’d know tweedledee and tweedledum have been jumping all over every remark I pass regardless of its content. Creating insulting nicknames, despite most of the time being wrong and I ending up right.

What you see now is a man who no longer gives a s**t and has decided if I get no basic human respect then I will give none back.

My only comment on today’s game was regarding 3 kids being on the bench and having lots of players out. Jose has himself recently mentioned the impact injuries have had

WealstoneRaider jumped on it then later had the gall to suggest I started the insults. Bullshit.

If you got caught in the middle I’m sorry. WR and JD will improve their tone or the return fire will be relentless. I’m not here to make friends, I like everyone else here, just wishes to express views on the club.

When a simple remark about our bench gets such a strong rebuke well yeah I’ll defend myself and if that leads us back down the well trodden Levy rabbit hole then so be it. Hint there WR, you want to avoid that crap then stop jumping down my throat.


IMV this sense of false hope you mention comes about from a core part of the fanbase not being able to accurately identify what we are, what we were, and what we want to be.

What we were was a s**t league side that from time to prioritised cup competitions and won them. What we were was a club that won domestic cups but largely was inoffensive as a league side but had two great periods under Nicholson and Burkinshaw.

United have been similar in that they really only have two great eras under Busby and Sir Alex. Theirs had higher peaks and the latter coincided with the EPL explosion which has now propelled them to mega club status.

What we are is a club that is on and off the pitch inferior to Liverpool, the two London scum and the Two manc clubs. That’s where we are.

What we want to be is one of them. To do that we have to firstly compete with them off field. We must bridge the financial gap, yes Blueboys11 points out our revenue this year is higher than both London clubs. They spent last year in Europa and we got 100m from our CL run. That was met with our biggest transfer spend since the Bale sale season. We’re not on those 5 financial level yet (sustainably) and until we get there we will not sustainably compete for higher honours.

but it comes at a cost. We’re stuck in a sort of middle ground atm in that we no longer pay little attention to the league (other than avoiding relegation) preferencing cup runs but don’t either look like title challengers.

So a question for you to ponder given this no man’s land status irks so many, which do you want us to be? A league team or a cup team? For the immediate future we need to pick one or the other.

The goal is to achieve what Chelsea and City have, and that is to gatecrash the elite and become a club that can do both. We presently can’t.

This false hope stems from the core belief that we should be in that last group, without considering the building blocks that must be built and put in place in order for that to be achieved.

I do get a sense in here that most would rather us having spent 50-100m more the last couple of seasons so that we can be seen to be “backing the manager” and thus having a stadium debt of 800m instead.

I could almost guarantee without knowing that Merrill Lynch, goldman sachs and HSBC will have a wages to revenue % cap placed on us, just like what happened with Woolwich. Iirc theirs was somewhere around 50-52% of revenue. This would be in the bottom 5 in the EPL btw.

Tottenham refinance £637m stadium debt but purse strings will not loosen | Tottenham Hotspur | The Guardian

Daniel Levy has insisted he will continue to run Tottenham in the same way as in the past after announcing a refinancing of the club’s stadium loans

amp.theguardian.com

Dated September 2019. Despite converting a lot of the debt to long term bonds it will have no effect (loosening) on short term transfer policy.

“We could have easily spent more money on players. Who knows if that would have bought us more success or not. The right approach is to build from the bottom up. There is no quick fix to becoming a much more significant global club.”

So Cryptkeeper given that is from the horses mouth. Do you want to build from the bottom up and be like on of the 5 clubs that amass an overwhelming proportion if domestic silverware? Or do you want to throw caution to the wind for short term success (not guaranteed) and potentially erode this slow build from the bottom they are talking about?

I meant from a generic viewpoint that if you don’t like the product on offer then save your money.

We are far from directionless. This club has had the same goals and direction since 2003. Some are becoming impatient with that. Others like me can see what they are trying to achieve and are willing to stick it out. That’s fine.

Not predicated at all I don’t think. They’ll be able to pay if off eventually even without CL football.

Yeah atm the football is bad. The squad severely under-performing and bereft of many players to choose from. We’re all hurting from that, but I’d almost guarentee that next season without CL football (or even EL) that the stadium will be full for league games. Cup games probably not, but if priced right cup matches have always been about a chance for families to go and watch their side play.

And I contend that if the players Pochettino wanted and they got for him had been better then predicament we’re in would be far less severe. Seems like he chose players that are still big question marks going forward.

Namely Davinson and Ndombele, and there are more that have already been sold. Nail more of our transfers than we have recently and this team would right now be more watchable.

How long would you suggest we all just "stick it out?" Life is short and I'd like to see us win the League and/or the CL before I die.

And paying off the stadium is predicated on people actually going to the stadium. That is Economics For Dummies mate. And they won't go to the stadium to watch second rate players, managed by a has been manager lose games to rubbish opponents. Certainly not at the prices that the club currently charges. Fans will eventually vote with their feet.

With the NFL deal and the ability to host big events ENIC can ride that element out to a degree though, hence many of us are now seeing them for what they are. It is purely business and is almost unrelated to football. ENIC will get their ROI by the cheapest means necessary. The THFC is now an entertainment business where football provides the scale but the profits will come from elsewhere. I don't expect the transfer policy to change and I fully expect to return to our usual slightly above mid-table position.

Did I envision this for my club when Levy was busy selling the dream about making us one or Europe's elite? No I did not. I don't want to support an entertainment venue. I want to follow a football club.

 

[WealstoneRaider]

So chalk WR up as a member of the shortcut group.
You either build properly or don’t even bother. Speculating doesn’t guarantee success but does guarantee an erosion of financial stability.

You sound like what you really want is the spending of Man City with gay abandon but not their shady human rights practices or state ownership.

Sorry but that type of spending comes with that type of character.

Strawman, which isn’t one of your traits generally.

We’ve waited 20 years for them to deliver success already, how much longer do you expect me to wait? I’ve been bloody patient, I saw an upward trend but I’m sorry but we’ve missed too many opportunities and suffered too many false dawns for me to continually stay onboard. In fact I’ve waited so long that I’m losing interest, and I should imagine that feeling is replicated across much of our (certainly more senior) fanbase. And I’m not talking about city type investment, I’m not that much removed from reality. But I’m talking about investment that puts us ahead of the liks of everton, Leicester even West Ham, who all outspend us now. You are losing this argument massively

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Now I have my wife sending me this sh!t.

 

[jd2010]

With the NFL deal and the ability to host big events ENIC can ride that element out to a degree though, hence many of us are now seeing them for what they are. It is purely business and is almost unrelated to football. ENIC will get their ROI by the cheapest means necessary. The THFC is now an entertainment business where football provides the scale but the profits will come from elsewhere. I don't expect the transfer policy to change and I fully expect to return to our usual slightly above mid-table position.

This what ENIC said when they first got into football

"However, our opinion was that only the major clubs would make money in the long term.
"Rangers is the second largest club in Great Britain after Manchester United, which has a market value of £470m.
"My gut feeling of what percentage of Manchester United that Rangers would stand at is 70%. It comes roughly to the same number."
But the businessman also made it clear that he and Lewis were NOT fans, adding: "There is no passion here. This is purely financial."

 

[WealstoneRaider]

This what ENIC said when they first got into football

"However, our opinion was that only the major clubs would make money in the long term.
"Rangers is the second largest club in Great Britain after Manchester United, which has a market value of £470m.
"My gut feeling of what percentage of Manchester United that Rangers would stand at is 70%. It comes roughly to the same number."
But the businessman also made it clear that he and Lewis were NOT fans, adding: "There is no passion here. This is purely financial."

I saw that on the FC. Not sure about that one to be honest, I think Levy and Lewis are genuine Tottenham fans. Would levy go to every match home and away if he only had a commercial interest in us?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

We’ve waited 20 years for them to deliver success already, how much longer do you expect me to wait? I’ve been bloody patient,

A bit disingenuous.

Yeah in totality it has been nearly 20 years since their acquisition of the club. It was a club at the time in so much turmoil and so dysfunctional that its captain left for free to our bitter rivals, run down stadium and lagging training facilities. Coupled with a team that was mid table at best.

It took 15 years to get all the ducks in a row to finally commence building our new home. That’s how long it took to acquire the finance and all the land needed, help up for ages by Archway Steel and then delayed due to the GFC.

In that 15 years though progress was slowly made. 12,9,10,14,9,5,5,11,8,4,5,4,5,6,5,3,2,3,4. Clearly table positions on average have been on an upward trend. Under Sugar and Venables we missed European qualification more than we attained it. Under this ownership we’ve made it in 13 of our last 14 seasons.

This rant about patience goes right back to the earlier contention that you don’t know what we are. The days of tanking the league and being a cup team are gone. The 5 clubs richer than us scoop nearly all of them up. So if your patience is running out as you say it is then surely by extension to get the success you say they owe us then you by want us to be like those 5 and win silverware yes?

Well abandoning what they’re building and trying to “speculate to accumulate” as you say doesn’t guarantee that and only serves to grow our already burgeoning debt level. Debt accumulated in order to aim to shorten that gap to those 5 who win s**t while we don’t

In fact I’ve waited so long that I’m losing interest, and I should imagine that feeling is replicated across much of our (certainly more senior) fanbase. And I’m not talking about city type investment, I’m not that much removed from reality. But I’m talking about investment that puts us ahead of the liks of everton, Leicester even West Ham, who all outspend us now.

Everton. Rich new owner (Moshiri) and prospective new owner (Usmanov) wanting to plunge money into EFC.
West Ham. Tight fisted owners who got their new stadium for a princely fee of £3m per season.
Leicester. Rich new owner (RIP) who plunged millions into them.

Difference with us is we have a giant white elephant in the room to pay for. You continue to spew bile about SPEND SOME MONEY!!! But time and time again cannot, and will not, offer up a counter argument to the inconvenient fact that we have a massive debt to repay.

So the solution is simple WR, either you begin to accept that fact and get on board with the path they’re on or you advocate for us to be bought by someone who is willing to spend despite these restrictions. That type of ownership smells an awful like PSG and City...

How long would you suggest we all just "stick it out?" Life is short and I'd like to see us win the League and/or the CL before I die.

And paying off the stadium is predicated on people actually going to the stadium. That is Economics For Dummies mate. And they won't go to the stadium to watch second rate players, managed by a has been manager lose games to rubbish opponents. Certainly not at the prices that the club currently charges. Fans will eventually vote with their feet.

With the NFL deal and the ability to host big events ENIC can ride that element out to a degree though, hence many of us are now seeing them for what they are. It is purely business and is almost unrelated to football. ENIC will get their ROI by the cheapest means necessary. The THFC is now an entertainment business where football provides the scale but the profits will come from elsewhere. I don't expect the transfer policy to change and I fully expect to return to our usual slightly above mid-table position.

Did I envision this for my club when Levy was busy selling the dream about making us one or Europe's elite? No I did not. I don't want to support an entertainment venue. I want to follow a football club.

Guarantee that even without a single signing this group will be better next season purely through having players fit to choose from.
Guarantee even without European football that PL matches will be sold out.

Thirdly all that extra stuff is merely additional revenue useful in helping us become financially stronger.

You all seem to want the idea that we have an owner who spends with gay abandon but won’t consider the steps required to do that OR, the risks and responsibilities that go with that.

To get to that level we must build the club up from where we were to where those other 5 are. That’s the goal.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

A bit disingenuous.

Yeah in totality it has been nearly 20 years since their acquisition of the club. It was a club at the time in so much turmoil and so dysfunctional that its captain left for free to our bitter rivals, run down stadium and lagging training facilities. Coupled with a team that was mid table at best.

It took 15 years to get all the ducks in a row to finally commence building our new home. That’s how long it took to acquire the finance and all the land needed, help up for ages by Archway Steel and then delayed due to the GFC.

In that 15 years though progress was slowly made. 12,9,10,14,9,5,5,11,8,4,5,4,5,6,5,3,2,3,4. Clearly table positions on average have been on an upward trend. Under Sugar and Venables we missed European qualification more than we attained it. Under this ownership we’ve made it in 13 of our last 14 seasons.

This rant about patience goes right back to the earlier contention that you don’t know what we are. The days of tanking the league and being a cup team are gone. The 5 clubs richer than us scoop nearly all of them up. So if your patience is running out as you say it is then surely by extension to get the success you say they owe us then you by want us to be like those 5 and win silverware yes?

Well abandoning what they’re building and trying to “speculate to accumulate” as you say doesn’t guarantee that and only serves to grow our already burgeoning debt level. Debt accumulated in order to aim to shorten that gap to those 5 who win s**t while we don’t

Everton. Rich new owner (Moshiri) and prospective new owner (Usmanov) wanting to plunge money into EFC.
West Ham. Tight fisted owners who got their new stadium for a princely fee of £3m per season.
Leicester. Rich new owner (RIP) who plunged millions into them.

Difference with us is we have a giant white elephant in the room to pay for. You continue to spew bile about SPEND SOME MONEY!!! But time and time again cannot, and will not, offer up a counter argument to the inconvenient fact that we have a massive debt to repay.

So the solution is simple WR, either you begin to accept that fact and get on board with the path they’re on or you advocate for us to be bought by someone who is willing to spend despite these restrictions. That type of ownership smells an awful like PSG and City...

Guarantee that even without a single signing this group will be better next season purely through having players fit to choose from.
Guarantee even without European football that PL matches will be sold out.

Thirdly all that extra stuff is merely additional revenue useful in helping us become financially stronger.

You all seem to want the idea that we have an owner who spends with gay abandon but won’t consider the steps required to do that OR, the risks and responsibilities that go with that.

To get to that level we must build the club up from where we were to where those other 5 are. That’s the goal.

Nobody has suggested the bit in bold but you keep on trotting it out.

What most of us would like to see is some ambition. Not signing players after the horse has bolted. You keep quoting GLC and Fatty Boomsticks as signings for Pochettino but it was too little and far too late. The squad had been well and truly run into the ground by then. Levy tried to wing it. There is no argument to say that he didn't.

Personally, I'd like to hear Levy tell the truth about transfers and therefore manage our expectations. Not lie and say that the money is there if it clearly isn't, whilst charging the prices he does for a seat to this clusterf*ck. I don't want to see 100M pound signings, but I want to see quality players that the manager wants (and that are realistic financially) and not players that Levy is trying to force through. I don't want to see Levy involved in transfers at all, other than to do the requisite financial governance (with reasonable wiggle room and not the ridiculous take it or leave it crap he does now). To say that Levy offered Pochettino player X or player Y just infuriates me. If I was the manager and a chairman with no football background started suggesting players, I would rightly tell him to GAGF and I suspect that is exactly what Pochettino did. Mourinho will rip the place apart internally if Levy pulls that s**t on him during the summer.

I agree that we should be better next season. But we will still be riding our luck with injury and relying on Mourinho to show some more enterprise than he is currently.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

What we need is a DoF. Get to July each season and Levy sets the budget. DoF and manager set about finding who they need within the budget and get it done.

 

[jd2010]

I saw that on the FC. Not sure about that one to be honest, I think Levy and Lewis are genuine Tottenham fans. Would levy go to every match home and away if he only had a commercial interest in us?

I think Levy is a Spurs fan.

But he is also an ENIC employee and Spurs director.

It's his job to be at every game.

 

[citizen-erased]

I think Levy is a Spurs fan.

But he is also an ENIC employee and Spurs director.

It's his job to be at every game.

He can be both. And i don't think he's a bad chairman.
But on his watch, we've had a disastrous few windows that really haven't helped us on-field
From signing no-one, to losing focus on Bruno and chasing a unicorn in Dybala....then cheaping out on the image rights...and having a bit of a scattershot approach to targets.

Ndombele was a good signing that went bad. That's on the player and the conditioning staff. He really shouldn't be this bad, esp under 2 top managers
GLC has been a great pickup.
Sessegnon is young, but i like what we got there
Bergwijn is also good
And i'll reserve judgement on Gedson for a bit.

not bad for two windows. But it was catch up, and didn't address problem areas, like full back, younger CB depth, and more in the middle.

Add Bruno + Tielemans (Sell Eriksen) on top of Ndombele & GLC
Klosterman + Upamecano + Dias + Tierney (sell/loan Rose out earlier)
Bergwijn remains a good move in the event Son isn't injured at the same time as Kane

GK: Lloris, Gaz, Vorm
RB: Aurier, Kloster, Tanganga
CB: Alder, Vert, Sanchez, Dier, Kloster, Davies, Tanganga, Foyth)
LB: Tierney, Davies, Sess, Kloster, Tanganga, Vert

Pick a middle 2 or 3 from Ndombele, Bruno, Tielemans, Dele, GLC, Winks, Dier

Pick a front 3 or 4 from Son, Lucas, Bergwijn, Dele, GLC, Lamela plus Kane/Son/Parrott as the focal points.

Admittedly, we could afford to lose players like Lamela, Davies, Dier, plus even the likes of Vorm, Alder and Vert if you bought kids to pad the numbers out.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Nobody has suggested the bit in bold but you keep on trotting it out.

Then I am at an utter loss as to what on earth you expect.
Don’t want City like owners. Don’t want the one’s we have.

Yet seemingly want a mythical middle ground which is hard to find. Hard to find owners saddled with debt who are more ‘ambitious’ yet not in the group you bolded.

You keep quoting GLC and Fatty Boomsticks as signings for Pochettino but it was too little and far too late. The squad had been well and truly run into the ground by then. Levy tried to wing it. There is no argument to say that he didn't

Meanwhile you keep quoting the year of no signings and attributing the blame solely on the board and won’t accept that the manager was part to blame. They all dropped the ball as a collective, yet because one party to that was adored by the fans and now sacked and the other is derided by fans only one party to that cluster* season coos heat.

To say that Levy offered Pochettino player X or player Y just infuriates me. If I was the manager and a chairman with no football background started suggesting players, I would rightly tell him to GAGF and I suspect that is exactly what Pochettino did. Mourinho will rip the place apart internally if Levy pulls that s**t on him during the summer.

It can infuriate you all it likes. It infuriates me when hack media outlets report lazily that a Spurs signing has fallen through because of Levy lowballing clubs without a skerrick of evidence. Which naturally is taken by many as gospel.

Personally, I'd like to hear Levy tell the truth about transfers and therefore manage our expectations.

I’d rather hear nothing.
Good chairman are seldom heard and just quietly go about their business.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Then I am at an utter loss as to what on earth you expect.
Don’t want City like owners. Don’t want the one’s we have.

Yet seemingly want a mythical middle ground which is hard to find. Hard to find owners saddled with debt who are more ‘ambitious’ yet not in the group you bolded.

Meanwhile you keep quoting the year of no signings and attributing the blame solely on the board and won’t accept that the manager was part to blame. They all dropped the ball as a collective, yet because one party to that was adored by the fans and now sacked and the other is derided by fans only one party to that clusterfu** season coos heat.

It can infuriate you all it likes. It infuriates me when hack media outlets report lazily that a Spurs signing has fallen through because of Levy lowballing clubs without a skerrick of evidence. Which naturally is taken by many as gospel.

I’d rather hear nothing.
Good chairman are seldom heard and just quietly go about their business.

But we didn't hear nothing, did we?

Levy said that the new stadium would not affect our transfer budget. That was an outright lie, as you have acknowledged in a previous post.

And the Board dropped the ball because they failed to ratify any managerial player requests for a full 12 month period. We were at the cusp of climbing football's Mt Everest and Levy didn't even throw Pochettino a rope.

Spin it anyway you like but that is what happened.