Blake vs Mumford

[candiehappy]

Top of the table v last year's premiers and we are debating a contest between basically the 22nd player picked for each side. Sigh.

at least it's a debate and not a slanging match! Fair points made for both camps, and it makes the game more interesting

 

[TheMightyAchilles]

No, I think he actually thought we called blake forrest

that is what i meant

 

[TheMightyAchilles]

Knew you would bring up that one. Was under a bit of pressure on the boundary line, miss hit it and it went out of bounds. Hardly the first player to do similar.

As for the shot for goal, are the rest of our team sharpshooters?

I am not saying that all these skills are not desirable - I'd love to have a ruckman with the full package. But really there are only a couple in the league, and his work around-the-ground is of lesser importance than any other player at the club.

blake's sample size is pretty limited
Rd












1

2

3

4

5

6
Opponent
Essendon
Hawthorn
Fremantle
Port Adelaide
Carlton
Richmond
Result
W 125 - 94W 91 - 100L 125 - 118W 159 - 64L 104 - 68W 161 - 53K
002110H
5812853D
5814963M
203220HO
251913221420FF
010000FA
101132T
110001G
000000B
000100CP
156311UP
438652DE%
10062.571.4388.8966.67100Clg
212132CM
000100m50
000000CL
024010i50
001001r50
0000101%
102311BO
000000DT
424049452424GT%
535174514748G%
---0--GA
001000

 

[SJ]

Just want to point out that last year Blake had 2.2 kicks per game at 59.6% efficiency, whilst Mumford had 1.9 kicks per game at 60.0% efficiency. Handball numbers were almost identical, 7.1 (85.9%) against 7.1 (85.8%).

Meanwhile Blake won a hitout 46% of the time in a contest (6th in the league), and hitout-to-advantage rate of 24% was above average, and 9% ahead of Mumford. Blake also ranked first at Geelong for score launches despite missing four matches.

When Blake registered a hit-to-advantage, 27% of the time this resulted in a Geelong score (2nd in the league).

 

[indieswan96]

Mumford to dominate and kick a goal after the siren to reduce the margin to 7 points.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Mumford to dominate and kick a goal after the siren to reduce the margin to 7 points.

You do know that you can choose any result using your imagination, right? You know things are bad when even in your fantasies we fall short.

 

[vinum coupe]

You do know that you can choose any result using your imagination, right? You know things are bad when even in your fantasies we fall short.

ha ha ha ha.

Look we can't really afford to lose right now. Pressure is building, albeit subtly.


But..... I can handle a loss under 6 points if Pods kick 10.5

 

[TheMightyAchilles]

3aw were on the anti flake bandwagon
he is going to set an afl record for the least number of kicks

enough said

the worst record

 

[randyzany]

The moment of truth has arrived. I hope there are no more excuses from the Blake apologists if Mummy gives Flake a bath.

 

[SJ]

The moment of truth has arrived. I hope there are no more excuses from the Blake apologists if Mummy gives Flake a bath.

If you judge football ability and performance over one game, you are deluded.

 

[AM]

If you judge football ability and performance over one game, you are deluded.

True! But on known form it's reasonable to suggest that Blake would most likely prevail in the hit outs and Mumford's superior mobility will mean he'll most likely prevail in other areas.

 

[Copernicus]

I have a feeling that Blake is going to dominate Mummy in the hit outs. And to be honest that's really all I care about as far as the ruck is concerned.

 

[Shmoses]

Man, I miss having Mumford at our club. I really liked him.

 

[CF]

The funny thing is that the best ruckman in the league Sandilands also never kicks it, only handballs off, has excellent tap ruck work and does kick an occasional goal but isn't a forward option.....Although Sandilands is a better ruckman to Blakey, they are similar in style of game. Both are classic Ruckmen, not ruck rovers like Cox, Ottens, The Nat etc, Sandilands is better because he has a bigger body than Blakey and therefore has more physical presence on the field.

You all want Blakey to play like a Ruck Rover and he never will. He will always be a big lumbering clumbsy classic style Ruckman. Winning the ball from the clearances is vital in todays game style. So having a guy who can get a large % of taps into the path of your midfielders is essential. Blakey does that.

The problem with the Blake knockers is that they are guilty of the same crime they accuse the Blake supporters of. They only see what they want to see. SJ has argued very intelligently in this thread, good on him.

 

[thejester]

This won't put an end to the debate a) because the two sides have completely different standards as to what ruckmen should do, as this thread demonstrates and b) hate of Blake has become so totally ingrained that nothing will satisfy his critics. The fact you still had people lamenting losing King after last year's GF and the start of this season demonstrates that totally.

 

[BigBadCam]

This won't put an end to the debate a) because the two sides have completely different standards as to what ruckmen should do, as this thread demonstrates and b) hate of Blake has become so totally ingrained that nothing will satisfy his critics. The fact you still had people lamenting losing King after last year's GF and the start of this season demonstrates that totally.

As much as I despise Blake, I'm starting to warm towards the Blake supporters arguments. We have the best ball movers and users in the competition. I don't know why we'd even want a ruckman running with the ball or desposing of it on a regular basis, whether it be Blake or Mumford or even Brad Ottens, who has looked pretty average this year also. Whilst not getting a lot of touches this year, Blake has at least shown that he is more determined at making a physical contest around the ground, and he has definitely added a few kgs of muscle.

Obviously, Blake is not the answer long term, and we need to be looking at getting some other ruckmen to develop fast, but Blake is good enough as a short term option. My lasting memories of Blake will always be the way he acted when he got dropped for the grand final, and the fact that we lost King and Mumford due to our obsession with this guy. I doubt that he would have lasted that long at the club if his Dad was not a past champion.

 

[TheCattery2007]

Catman Forever, I couldn't agree with you more.

I haven't seen the Cats play this year - not even tv (I know, pity me), but the only thing I wanted Blake to do in previous seasons was throw himself over the ball. That's what I loved about Mummy, although he was clearly behind Blake in his development. If Blake started throwing his weight around a little more he'd be where I want him to be, he'll never be a Ruck Rover/Forward option type. Given our midfield, I don't think we need that.

I'm also happy for him not to kick the ball - why bother - some people criticise some of our midfielders for poor disposal, what hope does this giraffe have!

 

[bulletproof]

Blake has already justified his place in the team, it was in the last quarter of last year's Grand Final. He was great in that crucial juncture in the club's history.

A home and away match in May being the decider on his value? You must be kidding.

I don't love Blake, but they all can't be superstars and he can play a part when he has too.

Mumford will probably be a better player but at the time he was not what we needed. End of.

Blake will towel him up in the hit outs this week as well.

 

[goodoldcats]

The main issue everyone has with blake (besides lacking any football ability) is the fact you never see him chase or tackle. he just stands there. This comes down to attitude i think

 

[TheMightyAchilles]

i think there is a varying degree of acceptance on the quality of his tap work to advantage

his field play is non existant, and some people are happy to live with that, some are not

but when the opposition ruck mark and kick goals, it really irks some people

even an old dinosaur in sam rucked and played around the ground

 

[vinum coupe]

Ha ha .
Now you're using Sam Newman as an example?
In a time when the game was damn slow?

He was the same height has Harry Taylor for christ sake.
And only just taller than Corey.

You'd want to hope he got around the ground!!

 

[Patronus]

i think there is a varying degree of acceptance on the quality of his tap work to advantage

his field play is non existant, and some people are happy to live with that, some are not

I could have sworn I saw him make a spoil on the weekend and cause a couple of turn overs from his pressure.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

The funny thing is that the best ruckman in the league Sandilands also never kicks it, only handballs off, has excellent tap ruck work and does kick an occasional goal but isn't a forward option.....Although Sandilands is a better ruckman to Blakey, they are similar in style of game. Both are classic Ruckmen, not ruck rovers like Cox, Ottens, The Nat etc, Sandilands is better because he has a bigger body than Blakey and therefore has more physical presence on the field.

Sandilands might look awkward, due to his size, but I remember reading somewhere that he used to clock 400s in around the same time as Peter Bell. He is mobile. Plus he is a very good kick around the ground for his size and is averaging nearly eight kicks a game this year. Blake is averaging less than one.

I'd say Blake is more Matthew Clarke than Aaron Sandilands. And most clubs would have taken Matthew Clarke as their ruckman any day of the week. I agree that it's unfair to base your judgment on him due to one game, but there's no doubt both Blake and Mumford will be fired up for the game, so it will be interesting to see how it pans out. It doesn't mean everything, but it means something.

 

[Vdubs]

i think there is a varying degree of acceptance on the quality of his tap work to advantage

his field play is non existant, and some people are happy to live with that, some are not

but when the opposition ruck mark and kick goals, it really irks some people

even an old dinosaur in sam rucked and played around the ground

Sam was an elite schoolboy athlete, a superb tap ruckman, and a brilliant high jumper. No comparison. He also played CHF for some years. Way better than any current day ruck, including Cox at his best.

Blake is an excellent tap ruckman with the privilege of having the most sensational mids to capitalize on his play. That is his role. We don't need a 200cm ruck rover, we have plenty of mids. Sam was shorter than Barnes, about Mackie's height.

 

[Pivo]

This debate is never ending. Week in-week out someone can't help but post an anti-Blake thread bringing up the same tired points.

If taps to advantage which allows the midfield to get first hands on the ball isn't important then I guess Essendon got it right in the finals last year against Adelaide....hang on, they got flogged didn't they.

Essendon thought they could get away without playing a genuine ruckman and got their just deserts. Beaten by an Adelaide ruck combo which is, well, average.

Hawthorn V North Melbourne this year?

A ruckman who gets first hand on the ball and directs it means the midfield knows where to position themselves and makes for easier take aways and that means the forwards only have to deal with their direct opponents as the ball is moved quicker.

Sure it doesn't always happen but that is the principle and it all starts with first hands on the pill.

1 guy within a team of 22 (which contains, arguably, the best on ball brigade in the comp) hardly makes a difference for the other stuff like kicking and handballing.

I'd love Blake to drop into the 'hole' more but I think he acts as a linkman alright. He is no Cox or Sandilands but 14 other clubs have the same issue there.

Still, Sandilands has a brother, maybe we should find out if he is playing footy.