Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread

[passmark]

Can't remember too many Prestia highlights.

Bit limited.

 

[LordLucifer]

but I am more concerned about getting some good mids and ball users in the side.

This is the exact reason why you never ever trade away your first rounder especially if it is #1 or #2 !!

 

[ParapMarkets]

Can't remember too many Prestia highlights.

Bit limited.

Prestia is a bit overrated imo. He would add to our midfield no doubt, but I agree with you. Bit limited.

 

[ShanDog]

This is the exact reason why you never ever trade away your first rounder especially if it is #1 or #2 !!

Exactly.

Unless it's for a good mid or ball user.

 

[BlueJet]

Prestia is a bit overrated imo. He would add to our midfield no doubt, but I agree with you. Bit limited.

He's one of the best young mids in the comp, given how much hype has gone to those around him - i'd say if anything he's underrated.

Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk

 

[LordLucifer]

Exactly.

Unless it's for a good mid or ball user.

Ejit ..... !@!#*

Just draft your own .....

 

[passmark]

He's one of the best young mids in the comp, given how much hype has gone to those around him - i'd say if anything he's underrated.

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Hey, you might be right but I can't say I've noticed him tear a game apart.

Neale has stepped up in close games.

Let's get both!

 

[slashin_velvet]

Maybe Cripps isn't a fair benchmark, but I guess it is possible to get the most of yourself DESPITE the environment...

Both Murphy and gibbs have had better years than cripps did last year. Murphy was 2011 (took out the b&f by over 200 votes - old system) and gibbs was 2014 (took out b&f with over 100 votes, second place was murph with 80).

Cripps still played a fair bit of vfl in year 1, and won the b&f by 1 vote with 68 votes (again with Murph second).

 

[ctacp]

True, it can't have been easy to flourish and reach your potential in the last 10 years at Carlton.

But then you look at Cripps...

He was basically injured his first year and in his second, things got as despondent and dysfunctional as they get at AFL level.

Yet he delivered way beyond expectations.

Maybe Cripps isn't a fair benchmark, but I guess it is possible to get the most of yourself DESPITE the environment...

until the "environment" finally saps your will perhaps ?

 

[KnobHead]

Good idea for the club to see what we can get for our first pick - whether it's 2 or 3 other high picks, trade for a player & picks, or draft. Key is to use the pick to the club's greatest benefit. that could be drafting a top talent, but if the talent pool is fairly even then it might be using it to get two lower but still high picks instead, etc.

each year need to explore all options, then decide which is best based on needs & what's available.

happy to keep going back to gws also, provided if fits our needs. overabundance of talent, some of it wanting to come home - more of them we pick up, the more of them (if they want to leave) likely wanting to join their mates at Carlton.

 

[ODNBlue]

We would not be without Curnow if we had swapped 12 for Tomlinson last year. It was well reported that we trumped Adelaide who wanted McKay by picking McKay first and letting Curnow slip to 12. If we had swapped 12 for Tomlinson, we would have picked up Curnow at 8.

 

[BlueJet]

Hey, you might be right but I can't say I've noticed him tear a game apart.

Neale has stepped up in close games.

Let's get both!

Sorry mate, I probably came off a bit more blunt than I was intending.
Dion is more a workhorse who will win you games through playing to a good standard across a whole game as opposed to individual acts of brilliance, the main concern would have to be how well he copes with injuries as for a more contested style of footballer he's a lot smaller than your Cripps/Fyfe types.
I agree, having the two of them running around would certainly ease our midfield headaches.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Lets be honest. Aside from losing a sizeable chunk in the salary cap, what will we be losing by trading Gibbs ?

He will never fulfil his potential (at least at Carlton), time for a parting of the ways at season's end.

Not saying that this should factor into our decision making, and some posters would probably say 'great, see you later', but aren't Gibbs and Murphy reasonably close? Would trading Gibbs put Murph off-side like Eddie derailed and ultimately resulted in the loss of Jeff, Yaz and Robbo?
At the end of the day, if we got rid of Gibbs and Murph didn't like it, too bad, but on the flip side, I noticed maybe about a week or so ago that somebody suggested we might get some trade value out of Ed Curnow. I certainly wouldn't want to get Charlie off-side.

 

[ferrisb]

Both Murphy and gibbs have had better years than cripps did last year. Murphy was 2011 (took out the b&f by over 200 votes - old system) and gibbs was 2014 (took out b&f with over 100 votes, second place was murph with 80).

Cripps still played a fair bit of vfl in year 1, and won the b&f by 1 vote with 68 votes (again with Murph second).

Agreed, both of those years were excellent. Murph in 2011 was just about best in the comp. Gibbs in 2014 was a beast.

I guess I question why they haven't had more seasons like that.

Murph - Since 2011, injuries and captaincy have played a part. Change in gamestyle has also hurt his game, I think he's most dangerous when he has space to use his skills and running capacity, rather than under the packs. Of course the team getting worse has also impacted him (as it impacts 95% of players) but I can still think of many games when we have been pummeled and Murph has simply never given up. He has done all he could and was running and chasing til the final siren.

Gibbs - He is a fine player and has had a great career despite the criticism, but his 2014 stands head and shoulders above other seasons. Much of this can maybe be blamed on the club for not #releasingthegibbs earlier. One criticism I have though is that while he is an extremely skilled and very effective player, he doesn't seem to impose himself on the contest. And I don't mean in a physical way, but in the sense that I rarely feel like he's thinking 'F this, we are getting done, but I am going down fighting, I will never give up'. If Gibbs had a killer instinct, I feel he's be every bit as good as say Luke Hodge, or at least very close. May not be as much of a 'good bloke' though...

 

[slashin_velvet]

Gibbs needs to drink drive more often IMO.

I have to agree about not imposing himself on a contest. We dont have many players who seem to be able to "win the game off their own boot".

 

[HalAlaric]

Okay, I thought due to many people scrutinizing my trade idea I would resubmit in further detail and add an alternate view. I agree that the trade to GWS might be a little slim so if by some chance a PP (#20) was given then that could be added to bolster the offer.

Trade Gibbs for Port 1st round pick (#8 (1551pts))

Trade #8, #19, (#20), #50 & #55 (total pts: 2979)(w/ PP: 3891pts) + future 1st round pick (#1-4) to GWS for:
The later two of their three 1st round picks (#9 + #12 (2737pts)) leaving them with Collingwoods pick (#5 (1878pts))
Lachie Whitfield - In my opinion he is worth one early and one mid first round pick but would only offer that if deals could be made on:
Caleb Marchbank - Worth a late 1st round or early 2nd pick and some loose change
Adam Tomlinson - Worth an early to mid 2nd round pick

Trade GWS pick #12 + #37 (1751pts) to Sydney for:
Tom Mitchell - Probably on more but may decide to move if the contract offer isn't what he was after.
*out of contract - Would love one of these guys to do a Nick Stevens and come via the pre-season draft.
"At the end of the 2003 season, Stevens expressed a desire to return to his native Melbourne and wished to be traded to Collingwood. Port Adelaide was unable to obtain what it considered an appropriate trade consideration and as a result, Stevens quit the club and entered the pre-season draft. He was subsequently drafted by Carlton with the second selection in that draft"

We go to draft with pick:
#1 - SPS (outside mid), #9 - SPP (inside mid) & #73 - J.Bradley (outside mid), having accumulated Whitfield (outside mid), Mitchell (inside mid), Marchbank (KPD), & Tomlinson (KPF)

AlTERNATE TRADE - We keep Gibbs & PP #20 if we receive one
Trade #1, #19, #50 & #55 (total pts: 4428) + future 1st round pick (#1-4) to GWS for:
Two of their three 1st round picks (#5 + #12 (3146pts)) leaving them with their own pick (#9 (1469pts))
Lachie Whitfield
Caleb Marchbank
Adam Tomlinson

We go to the draft with:
#5 - Berry, Scharenberg, or Brodie // #12 - SPP, Gallucci, or Clark // (#20) - best available // #37 - best available // #73 Bradley

 

[bmaurizio]

Gibbs relies on his fineness and quality distribution he's an intelligent playmaker and not a work horse.
Cripps and Kreuzer do the heavy bullocking work, with skill of course.
Murphy and Gibbs are skillful and creative players all teams need desperately.
We need to address is help for midfield , a Brodie or maybe Berry tough inside and out midfielders in this year's draft to add to Cripps and say a L. Neale as DFA and that will go a long way to resolve our problems.

 

[Jimmae]

I think C.Curnow is looking like a good selection, so we were probably lucky GWS rejected our trade for Tomlinson, as we found a similar player.

In terms of long term build I agree Tomlinson is only worth pick #20-40 to us now as he is not critical to our best 22, but would still really like Tomlinson at CFC if we can get a fair deal.

In truth, it's probably more along the lines of Cunningham instead of Tomlinson

 

[Funk]

I wouldn't be saying Wietering is a better selection than Schache at the moment.

Weitering has started strongly but Schache was very very good for a skinny Young CHF on Saturday.

brions have a beauty there who's going to get better.

FWIW Champion Data guys were saying that Schache's Under 18 stats were up there with the best in last 15 years for KPF.

I.e. Top 4 with Tom Lynch, Hawkins and J Kennedy.

 

[Matty411]

Gibbs isn't going anywhere.

Can see something like: Our pick ~#3 for GWS' #6 + #10 then on-trading #6 and Everitt/Player to GC for Jaeger.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Would like to see L.Whitfield at Carlton - genuine speed/execution skills a skinny gun in the mould of a few of the Hawthorn types - is a starting 18 player for GWS. Happy to see the Club consider Patton - Levi and he would monster Clubs - but a Lynch he isn't and won't be - more a traditional gorilla power forward. Patton was 22#1 forward for GWS before injuries.

Mitchel is probably trade bait from Sydney - expensive and (finally) being given a run in their firsts. Better mid than any we have except Cripps - but seriously that isn't saying much - he isn't a game breaker or match winner himself. Sydney need to cover for Richards and Grundy possible retirements they will be looking to pick up someone like - Hurley, if Hurley really wishes to leave. SO I figure Mitchell may be used as part of trade there.

There are two possible gun mids to come out of Suns - one has a bad history with injury but could be as good as Cripps - the other is extremely talented but not the talented monster we might like to pair up with Cripps - more a classy outside game breaker.

If a trade can be made for Patton & Whitfield & Tomlinson it would be a master class in list rebuilding by SOS - I doubt Whitfield won't be wanted at GWS. We would STILL be missing at least one gun mid to play with Cripps - but forward line and wings would be set at Carlton with developed experienced and very good players.

Challenge is making sure we have enough 'currency' to do a fair deal by parties involved. A high pick for two downgrades makes sense in a rebuild - if the potential targeted draftees are there.

Everyone is on the Gibbs trade bandwagon ( well almost everyone) but only a contender would be interested really - and that limits where Gibbsy might be happy to go - remember he is a contracted player. I'd pretty much expect Gibbs to maybe consider a return to Adelaide - going to GWS ...doubt it. I don't know how much 'press' a Club can use to force a trade with a contracted player tbh - personally I don't like doing business like that anyway - a mutually agreed deal - well that is fine.

The OTHER way to think about Gibbsy is - what IF his natural position is HBF or creative HF - who do we have that is a better option than Bryce in those positions right now? I'd prefer to have other HB or mid defenders capable of moving to genuine on ball each way runnning game - than put it all on Gibbs and say ..perform there or out.

As much as we all sometimes like to point at a bloke and say well he should have been a much better player - is it Gibb's fault that maybe - just maybe he is playing to the best of his ability already? Gibbs didn't pick himself as #1 draft pick neither did Murph or Kreuze.

For mine - a safer way to continue rebuild is to get the players we need in and develop them - and right now - we need 1-2 genuine gun midfielders to add to Cripps both should be able to play inside and outside games. Forwards? hmmm I am in the camp of them being easier to get than not. If Patton / Tomlinson rumour is true - question becomes how do we pay for them as well as having left overs for a couple of mids?

Personally I've had enough of the skinny smaller outside players we've recruited . Whitfield although a good player would be just another one and cost too much as well . Time we got some more grunt in the midfield , give me a cunnington type any day with what we've got at the club right now I feel a player like that would be much more suited and valuable and not cost the earth ?

 

[JustaBattler]

Personally I've had enough of the skinny smaller outside players we've recruited . Whitfield although a good player would be just another one and cost too much as well . Time we got some more grunt in the midfield , give me a cunnington type any day with what we've got at the club right now I feel a player like that would be much more suited and valuable and not cost the earth ?

lol @ skinny runt meme.

 

[Iamcarlton]

lol @ skinny runt meme.

Cunnington or similar and another inside mid to help cripps and Gibbs and Murphy can get on their bikes and run and be more damaging on the outside which is what their more suited to I reckon . Crippa doesn't need another outside player he's got to get the ball out to .

 

[Blue__Balls]

Okay, I thought due to many people scrutinizing my trade idea I would resubmit in further detail and add an alternate view. I agree that the trade to GWS might be a little slim so if by some chance a PP (#20) was given then that could be added to bolster the offer.

Trade Gibbs for Port 1st round pick (#8 (1551pts))

Trade #8, #19, (#20), #50 & #55 (total pts: 2979)(w/ PP: 3891pts) + future 1st round pick (#1-4) to GWS for:
The later two of their three 1st round picks (#9 + #12 (2737pts)) leaving them with Collingwoods pick (#5 (1878pts))
Lachie Whitfield - In my opinion he is worth one early and one mid first round pick but would only offer that if deals could be made on:
Caleb Marchbank - Worth a late 1st round or early 2nd pick and some loose change
Adam Tomlinson - Worth an early to mid 2nd round pick

AlTERNATE TRADE - We keep Gibbs & PP #20 if we receive one
Trade #1, #19, #50 & #55 (total pts: 4428) + future 1st round pick (#1-4) to GWS for:
Two of their three 1st round picks (#5 + #12 (3146pts)) leaving them with their own pick (#9 (1469pts))
Lachie Whitfield
Caleb Marchbank
Adam Tomlinson

Sorry Hal, gonna pick this one apart as well (it's not personal, you're just the only one throwing up complex trade deals that I can analyse to pass the time). Based on your valuations, the trade breaks down like this"

Whitfield for 2017 first (3ish) and 19.
Marchbank for 20.
Tomlinson and 12 for 50 and 55.

I've left 8 and 9 out, as we could just promise not to bid on their academy kids and it achieves the same thing for them.

The alternate trade goes the same way.

Whitfield for 2017 first (3ish) and 19.
1 for 5 and 12 (roughly equal points).
Marchbank and Tomlinson for 50 and 55.

In both scenarios, we make out like absolute bandits.

 

[JustaBattler]

Cunnington or similar and another inside mid to help cripps and Gibbs and Murphy can get on their bikes and run and be more damaging on the outside which is what their more suited to I reckon . Crippa doesn't need another outside player he's got to get the ball out to .

Mate - you are preaching to the converted have been smashing the table regarding the short people we have been recruiting as far as midfielders go - for years - thankfully SOS is on the same page and I don't feel like my rugby bias was blinding me. I think Cripp's size has woken a lot of people up- and am liking the look of Cuningham and Vojo as they get bigger by the week. But yeh - we need a definite beast next to Crippa so we can own the center bounces against anyone.

The center and clearance set up situation has been pretty bad this year - costing us way too many easy forward 50 entries by opposition.