Rumour Bluemour Discussion XLI

[skadoosh]

BlueBlood15 good info on Boak!

 

[Azzurro]

Not sure how you're conflating these points guys. I don't abuse our players, never would, but that doesn't stop me from seeing that they were damaged or destabilising goods this year, and calling it out in this discussion forum.

GW and co. willingly let them go or encouraged them to leave, for very good reason. Based on publicly available information, here's my take based on what I would have done in GW/CD shoes (so, what I assume he did):

JSOS we know was a poor cultural presence from Docherty's farewell speech. Fresh start needed for all. Negative influence, willingly let go.

Curnow was talking to Weiters for months - months! - about leaving, and how he was wrestling with the decision. These are his own words in the paper today. He dialled it in most of the year. Which other players and admin was he talking to? Negative influence, willingly let go.

TDK dialled it in most of the season too. He basically stopped jumping at contests half way through the season. Media speculation rife, contract price well beyond desirability let alone viability. Destabilising influence, willingly let go.

Docherty retired and it brought a tear to my eyes, but yes even him. Agree his performance was down. But he's great mates with JSOS and a powerful voice in the locker room. Potential to be a destabilising influence, encouraged to leave mid season.

 

[CJMB]

We just need more bodies full stop. Not ideal, I agree but better than not having him.

Warm bodies for the sake of filling a list isn’t really a (viable) strategy.

If the Austin/Agresta/Davies/Wright believe he would be a better KPP option than what we could get from SSP/DFA Pool (ie Frost, Phillips, Blight, maybe Derkson? Etc) then I guess that’s something we could look at.

However if it’s genuine KPP that’s required, I’d rather jettison Gov and target someone else. Much more comfortable with a smaller player like Cowan/Hayward/Moir/Acres covering the 3rd tall role than I am with Gov lining up at CHB or trying to be the bear in the square.

 

[SurreyBlue]

BlueBlood15 good info on Boak!

BB gets good info. No doubt.

 

[My Hat]

JSOS we know was a poor cultural presence from Docherty's farewell speech. Fresh start needed for all. Negative influence, willingly let go.

Really think a mountain has been made out of a molehill over Doc's comment.

It was half a dozen words said in jest. But I guess when so little solid information is available, people latch on to scraps like this and give them wildly disproportionate levels of significance.

 

[Moon]

C4. Soapy. Wickzki. Yazz. One or two others. Yes.

Everyone else. Grain of salt.

What was the Question ... Who were the Trade Predictions Winners?

I'm good ... knew Moon wasn't going to be standing on the Podium.
Didn't quite get the Charlie will be wearing hoops and then nowhere - staying at Carlton parts right.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Should we be worried Kockie might be our next president?

 

[JustOneTime]

JSOS we know was a poor cultural presence from Docherty's farewell speech. Fresh start needed for all. Negative influence, willingly let go.

The internet huh. He is gone now so must be a poor cultural presence.

GW met with him to convince hm to stay puts that stupidity to bed.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Am I the only one not remotely excited or interested in Butters?

 

[Benaly28]

Really think a mountain has been made out of a molehill over Doc's comment.

It was half a dozen words said in jest. But I guess when so little solid information is available, people latch on to scraps like this and give them wildly disproportionate levels of significance.

I’ve met Jsos a few times let’s just say apple dosent fall far from the tree.

 

[Benaly28]

Am I the only one not remotely excited or interested in Butters?

Yes

 

[GT619]

Am I the only one not remotely excited or interested in Butters?

 

[Aphrodite]

I have zero sympathy for Elijah he was given every opportunity by the blues and he screwed it up. I do hope the kid gets himself right and succeeds in life,
Unfortunately for Elijah it won’t be at Carlton with his brother.

I see you have no issue with Tarryn Thomas

His intriguing has X factor but also has a lot of baggage . If there’s any evidence of him turning his life around I wouldn’t be against a one year contract. I know others might see it different which I understand entirely .

 

[coffeeman]

Am I the only one not remotely excited or interested in Butters?

Wouldn’t want to overpay for him. If Smith and Walker live up to the hype, that position won’t be a huge need.

 

[Azzurro]

The internet huh. He is gone now so must be a poor cultural presence.

GW met with him to convince hm to stay puts that stupidity to bed.

Your sources on that are the exact same as mine - yet I said something like "in my opinion" while you appear to believe you are stating fact.

Who's the first target of a new manager seeking to overhaul team culture? If you've ever managed a team, you know the answer is that the ones with half a foot out the door, negative influences and ringleaders get moved on first. GW observed for months, and now we've seen the full outcome.

Voss spoke about being the club needing to be united, at length and publicly at the best and fairest - meaning, they weren't this year.

We haven’t lost a player we really wanted to keep almost ever. Why do you think that would change now, if not by strategy and design? Do you think that GW is playing chess or checkers?

Happy to concede that I'm extrapolating. But I already said it was my perspective, and went above and beyond to provide evidence available in the public domain as to why I hold that view. I'd appreciate not being labelled stupid given my reasoned approach. I welcome your alternative view with evidence so we can debate it. I'd especially love it if your view and evidence could change my mind - I've got a growth mindset so am very open to ideas.

 

[BlueTongue]

Am I the only one not remotely excited or interested in Butters?

Put it this way, I'm excited if we get him for $1m-$1.3m p/a, but I'm not looking at going back to being 'Top Heavy' and counting on Butters as our savior. The idea should be 'team' not 'messiah'.

 

[tarczonandjane]

What enthuses me about this offseason is that everything we are doing seems targeted and considered.

Culture and leadership are a problem: let’s appoint someone to the role
Midfield running both ways is a problem: let’s have one coach for midfield and one coach for stoppages
Pace and skills are a problem: let’s recruit players who come with these
Culture is a problem: let’s get rid of conditional types

The diagnosis of our problems seems to be well thought through, and the answers well designed. It is impossible to say at this stage to say whether the people brought on board are the right ones to address our challenges. But at least it sounds like we are developing a coherent approach to finding solutions.

 

[JustaBattler]

What enthuses me about this offseason is that everything we are doing seems targeted and considered.

Culture and leadership are a problem: let’s appoint someone to the role
Midfield running both ways is a problem: let’s have one coach for midfield and one coach for stoppages
Pace and skills are a problem: let’s recruit players who come with these
Culture is a problem: let’s get rid of conditional types

The diagnosis of our problems seems to be well thought through, and the answers well designed. It is impossible to say at this stage to say whether the people brought on board are the right ones to address our challenges. But at least it sounds like we are developing a coherent approach to finding solutions.

that is a natural outcome of CEO | HOF |Coaches and List Management all aligned. SOP

 

[Bundy Bear Bogan]

Should we be worried Kockie might be our next president?

Or that Kane Cornes might support us

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Mine used to say Ciccio Pasticcio

My doll was Ciccio and my other doll was Ciccio Bello.

I saw the Charlie interview. Have no hard feelings. Go well Charlie except against us.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Am I the only one not remotely excited or interested in Butters?

While I'd LOVE to have Butters in navy blue, the reality is, it will be very costly...

First of all, Port will match any bid... anyone who thinks they're gonna let him walk for a single band 1 compo pick is living on another planet. They are forcing a trade for him.

Secondly, any trade negotiation will involve Port DEMANDING our 2026 1st round picks. Both of them. Forget the 27 and 28 picks... that's not going to cut it, in fact Port will want those thrown in on top. They are investing heavily into next year's draft and those 2 first round picks we hold will be the only thing they really want from us, that I can assure you.

Third, the contract will have to be the biggest in AFL history. Butters will have 10 Vic clubs knocking on the door. We can't sell success yet, like say a Hawthorn or Geelong can. All we can do is sell him on the fact there are some familiar faces here with CD, MV, TB and Torin... but we'll have to stump up more $$$ because let's be real, that will be what he is after as well. What's the knock on effect of paying him say $2M / season for the next 8 years? just look at the Stains already this year... the TDK contract has ruffled the feathers of some of their existing players... I get the feeling that all is not well in Stainland and as a result, we won't see the improvement most expect from them...

Which brings me back to my point about Sam Walsh... he's also a free agent next year... if he sees us negotiating a $2M contract for Butters and not for him, he will feel betrayed and it's probably rightly so... and then we could lose him. Other clubs are already circling and ready to offer him big $ as well...

It's an all in bet I'm afraid. We'll have to satisfy Port, Butters and the rest of the playing group. It's the kind of bet you make when you're in Hawthorn's position, not ours. We just won't compromise matching the bid for Cody especially after he has committed to us and at the same time risk losing Sam Walsh and disrupt the culture we're trying to build...

 

[Bundy Bear Bogan]

I blame Sweet Caroline for our half arsed efforts.

Lets replace it with Acca Dacca's 'You Shook Me All Night Long"(it might be an Eye Of The Tiger moment like in Rocky)

And Jim beam tastes like crap

 

[Azzurro]

Really think a mountain has been made out of a molehill over Doc's comment.

It was half a dozen words said in jest. But I guess when so little solid information is available, people latch on to scraps like this and give them wildly disproportionate levels of significance.

Agree that in the absence of information people will literally make things up. I've only shared this one recent example as it's fresh in my mind. I don't much like your suggestion that I'm clutching at straws or my(tinfoil)hat, so I'll add a bit more colour.

On the statement: yes it was tongue in cheek by Docherty, but I wouldn't call it pure jest, and the truth of it was evident based on the response from all the players.

On SOS, a couple of other bits of evidence from top of mind, without digging too far or dipping into the rumour mill:

His demeanour at numerous public events I've been to, matching the attitude mentioned by Docherty.

The saga of his dad's sacking with his bitter response including the deleted posts. Would I have responded in the same way? Almost certainly. At his age at the time, I would have hung around too, just like he did. But older me would leave ASAP knowing it's broken beyond repair. And years later, here we are.

I don't begrudge anyone retiring or moving on. I'm not bitter nor offended about it. And I don't feel the need to justify why they've left, certainly not due to some sense of insecurity or "because the internet".

All I'm really saying is, I reckon that if we really wanted SOS or others to stay we would have made it so. The fact that they left isn't only because we couldn't match other offers. Which leads me to question, why else was our club ok with these senior players (some of them "generational talent") leaving? And here we are

 

[Bundy Bear Bogan]

Welp... their ruck battles in pre-season are gonna be fun. Reckon Old mate Marshall might throw a bit of weight around

Might ask Setanta for tips

 

[JustOneTime]

Your sources on that are the exact same as mine - yet I said something like "in my opinion" while you appear to believe you are stating fact.

Who's the first target of a new manager seeking to overhaul team culture? If you've ever managed a team, you know the answer is that the ones with half a foot out the door, negative influences and ringleaders get moved on first. GW observed for months, and now we've seen the full outcome.

Voss spoke about being the club needing to be united, at length and publicly at the best and fairest - meaning, they weren't this year.

We haven’t lost a player we really wanted to keep almost ever. Why do you think that would change now, if not by strategy and design? Do you think that GW is playing chess or checkers?

Happy to concede that I'm extrapolating. But I already said it was my perspective, and went above and beyond to provide evidence available in the public domain as to why I hold that view. I'd appreciate not being labelled stupid given my reasoned approach. I welcome your alternative view with evidence so we can debate it. I'd especially love it if your view and evidence could change my mind - I've got a growth mindset so am very open to ideas.

I guess i went hard on what i saw as drivel opinion because you have been strong on posters attacking players in your recent posts. Then you are front and centre on attacking a player...but it is ok because he isnt playing for Carlton. There is a word for it that that im sure you are aware of.

Listening to Jack directly for what, 8-10+ years that he has been at the football club says a lot more to me about his character than Docherty or my point of GW.

IMO (to match yours), JSoS has been undervalued and got sick of it....that along with a dysfunctioning footy programme which we can all see from watching the games output on gameday.

Your point that jsos was a poor cultural influence just grates because it really is just a stupid guess based off a few comments.