Recommitted Brad Crouch [RFA 2020]

[Crow till I die]

You literally could find about 3 of the 100 good mids that have putrid disposal.

Crouch doesn’t break the line or get anywhere near the meters gained that Shiel does (from less possessions) and even then is STILL 64% to 67% DE.


I didn’t even bother replying because you could only find 3 other s**t users of the ball this year to compare to and all you’re arguing is that he’s in the same class as those guys as a poor user of the ball, doesn’t even possess the same good attributes that make those guys good players outside of winning a lot of the football.


It’s a worry when you can only find 3 players out of so so so many good mids to compare to with Crouch who had his best season ever and STILL in the class with just a handful of mids this season that had notoriously bad disposal. Of those 1 is a near 30 year old who had probably his worst season and only played 13 games (Cotchin), another is notoriously bad user of the ball and not someone you’d want compare to that the only similarity is that they are both s**t ball users (Shiel) and the last had his worst season by far disposal wise in Coniglio.




Any chance you could get the ball use and attributes of the other good mids in the league? Or 3 out 100 or so was all you could find and still then doesn’t even look good for him.

Again Crouch was arguably the worst ball user of any mid this season outside of Taranto and you can find 2-3 guys (who they themselves are really bad ball users) to compare to out of about 100 good mids.


You’re not going to win this argument though because I watched nearly ever game from Crouch this year and he was horrendous ball use wise. The stats back that up in every way and when the eye test and stats both show exactly what I’m saying you’re going to have a hard time convincing anyone that you have any point on the contrary.

I didn't even bother to read your rant any further - if you don't rate Coniglio, Shiel or Cotchin that is your problem but it just shows how your argument has falllen off a cliff as you are out on your own if you think those guys are poor

 

[Young Gun #6]

I didn't even bother to read your rant any further - if you don't rate Coniglio, Shiel or Cotchin that is your problem but it just shows how your argument has falllen off a cliff as you are out on your own if you think those guys are poor

If you can’t even read a post it shows pretty quickly you’re going nowhere in an argument. No comprehension skills from you when it clearly mentions that you could find only a handful of horrible ball users (not players (can you even read??)) to compare to Crouch in that aspect. You’re lucky I even responded after your original half assed argument to the original post.

As I said at the bottom of the post:

You’re not going to win this argument though because I watched nearly ever game from Crouch this year and he was horrendous ball use wise. The stats back that up in every way and when the eye test and stats both show exactly what I’m saying you’re going to have a hard time convincing anyone that you have any point on the contrary.

 

[Crow till I die]

If you can’t even read a post it shows pretty quickly you’re going nowhere in an argument. No comprehension skills from you when it clearly mentions that you could find only a handful of horrible ball users to compare to Crouch in that aspect. You’re lucky I even responded after your original half assed argument to the original post.

As I said at the bottom of the post:

You’re not going to win this argument though because I watched nearly ever game from Crouch this year and he was horrendous ball use wise. The stats back that up in every way and when the eye test and stats both show exactly what I’m saying you’re going to have a hard time convincing anyone that you have any point on the contrary.

are you still banging on about it..just walk away, hold your hand up and admit you got it horribly wrong. People will understand that

 

[When I Crow Up]

are you still banging on about it..just walk away, hold your hand up and admit you got it horribly wrong. People will understand that

He's never going to do that, he loves to troll any crows post. He's picked 2 stats to define a player and is carrying on about it despite every AFL analyst disagreeing with him. And I love that he can dismiss the Ollie Wines comment by just saying he had a down year, but can't accept that Crouch had the same on his disposal efficiency despite his career average being 68%. But you know, that wouldn't suit his trolling...

For someone so knowledgable on what makes a midfielder good, he really should focus on helping his own team because they seem to only know how to pick one type of player in their midfield.

 

[Young Gun #6]

are you still banging on about it..just walk away, hold your hand up and admit you got it horribly wrong. People will understand that

The classic go to when someone has no actual retaliation.

Not sure why I even responded to begin with I should’ve just let you thought in your own mind that it was good enough to find a couple of midfielders in the league that have as bad disposal as Crouch as a comparison.

It’s ok to have no argument when someone proves you wrong, but you look like a fool just going to the classic ‘it’s ok to admit your wrong’ or ‘I’m just not going to read your post (because it proves every thing I said invalid)’ hahahah

 

[Crow till I die]

He's never going to do that, he loves to troll any crows post. He's picked 2 stats to define a player and is carrying on about it despite every AFL analyst disagreeing with him. And I love that he can dismiss the Ollie Wines comment by just saying he had a down year, but can't accept that Crouch had the same on his disposal efficiency despite his career average being 68%. But you know, that wouldn't suit his trolling...

For someone so knowledgable on what makes a midfielder good, he really should focus on helping his own team because they seem to only know how to pick one type of player in their midfield.

he lost the argument and he doesn't even know it yet..but yeah, I know exactly what you are saying about other posts of his

 

[THE_GUN]

P

Bit of the pot calling the kettle black. If you'd done your own research then you'd know that BCrouch had a number of injuries stemming from an ongoing issue that was resolved by surgery last year, and since then he played a whole season with 0 issues including carrying a high workload. All parties were very confident that the surgery had sorted things for him and so far appears that way.

And the same would apply to Elliot but dont think you would be getting a top 5 pick or 800k for him, So seeing as you did the research and appear to be the expert why has it taken 7 years to get these 'surgery; that you mention done ?

There is no way a club will be handing out a top 5 pick for Crouch and a pick between 10-15 is enough if he decides he is gone

 

[THE_GUN]

If he has an injured 2020 then he stays with us as no teams will apparently want him. Thats fine with me.

No he wants to leave it just means he leaves for $500k x 2/3 years and crows get a pick #35

 

[When I Crow Up]

And the same would apply to Elliot but dont think you would be getting a top 5 pick or 800k for him, So seeing as you did the research and appear to be the expert why has it taken 7 years to get these 'surgery; that you mention done ?

There is no way a club will be handing out a top 5 pick for Crouch and a pick between 10-15 is enough if he decides he is gone

Because they were hoping that they could manage it given were in a premiership windown and then in 2017 we made a GF. Unfortunately with his 2018 injury and how we were tracking they made the call to just get it out the way and be resigned to losing him for that whole season and try to reload for 2019.

And based on your theory any player that played all games last season should be valued the same... they are completely different players, BCrouch is 2 years younger, has a higher ceiling, and was a high draft pick meaning that if he walks end of next season we get a first round compensation pick. They are completely different players and different scenarios.

 

[THE_GUN]

Because they were hoping that they could manage it given were in a premiership windown and then in 2017 we made a GF. Unfortunately with his 2018 injury and how we were tracking they made the call to just get it out the way and be resigned to losing him for that whole season and try to reload for 2019.

And based on your theory any player that played all games last season should be valued the same... they are completely different players, BCrouch is 2 years younger, has a higher ceiling, and was a high draft pick meaning that if he walks end of next season we get a first round compensation pick. They are completely different players and different scenarios.

But what you are failing to accept is his injuries are not just a 1 - 2 - 3 year thing , He has been injury prone since he has arrived


2013 - 14 games (missed 8 games)
2014 - 11 games (missed 11 games)
2015 - 0 games (missed 24 games)
2016 - 16 games (missed 8 games)
2017 - 20 games (missed 5 games)
2018 - 0 games ( missed 22 games)
2019 - 22 games first full season

In his career Crouch has missed 78 games out of a possible 161. Elliot is 17 months older but was drafted in 2011 same as B.Crouch but couch was younger and was eligible to play 1 year later so really is just 1 AFL season short of Elliot.

I also doubt the Crouch has a higher ceiling than Elliot , If you cane get another 100 games from both players i would doubt many would chose to take crouch over elliot.

 

[When I Crow Up]

But what you are failing to accept is his injuries are not just a 1 - 2 - 3 year thing , He has been injury prone since he has arrived

2013 - 14 games (missed 8 games)
2014 - 11 games (missed 11 games)
2015 - 0 games (missed 24 games)
2016 - 16 games (missed 8 games)
2017 - 20 games (missed 5 games)
2018 - 0 games ( missed 22 games)
2019 - 22 games first full season

In his career Crouch has missed 78 games out of a possible 161. Elliot is 17 months older but was drafted in 2011 same as B.Crouch but couch was younger and was eligible to play 1 year later so really is just 1 AFL season short of Elliot.

I also doubt the Crouch has a higher ceiling than Elliot , If you cane get another 100 games from both players i would doubt many would chose to take crouch over elliot.

Not at all. Take the broken foot out in 2015 and his game averages show they managed him through most of his career. They had hoped through continued management he wouldn't need surgery but it didn't turn out that way.

And I strongly disagree with you for thinking Elliot is in the same realm as Crouch. Elliot is a free agent and no team outside of Collingwood and the Dees are chasing him. Collingwood have a 2 year deal on the table. If he was as good as you say teams that are chasing say Papley would be going crazy for him. Meanwhile Crouch has multiple suitors all knowing they'd have to give up at least a first round pick + to get him as well as pay at least $650k. So clubs don't agree with your valuation either.

 

[marty36]

And the same would apply to Elliot but dont think you would be getting a top 5 pick or 800k for him, So seeing as you did the research and appear to be the expert why has it taken 7 years to get these 'surgery; that you mention done ?

There is no way a club will be handing out a top 5 pick for Crouch and a pick between 10-15 is enough if he decides he is gone

Then brad stays

I think everyone is clear, if he leaves he will attract a trade greater than that of his RFA status next year, all comes down to the crows predicted finish in 2020

To suggest we would accept a 10-15 pick means you don't understand we wont accept unders than what we could get

If he stays he will sign a new agreement say for 4 years

 

[THE_GUN]

Then brad stays

I think everyone is clear, if he leaves he will attract a trade greater than that of his RFA status next year, all comes down to the crows predicted finish in 2020

To suggest we would accept a 10-15 pick means you don't understand we wont accept unders than what we could get

If he stays he will sign a new agreement say for 4 years

I honestly think you are not aware of whats going on at the AFL currently
this is not a normal situation where contracted players are wanting out Jenkins,Keath,Betts,Laird,Kelly,Greenwood,Jacobs and Other players managers are shopping them around like Crouch.

Your club is in a lot of trouble and could see as many as 10 player move this year and will have a choice to either sign B Crouch up for the 5 years he wants or let him go and it wont be in any place to hold players back.

Whilst i can understand the crows supporters wanting things to be a better deal for your club but these things are running alot deeper and the club wants them gone

 

[When I Crow Up]

I honestly think you are not aware of whats going on at the AFL currently
this is not a normal situation where contracted players are wanting out Jenkins,Keath,Betts,Laird,Kelly,Greenwood,Jacobs and Other players managers are shopping them around like Crouch.

Your club is in a lot of trouble and could see as many as 10 player move this year and will have a choice to either sign B Crouch up for the 5 years he wants or let him go and it wont be in any place to hold players back.

Whilst i can understand the crows supporters wanting things to be a better deal for your club but these things are running alot deeper and the club wants them gone

I'm not sure you're qualified to be saying what's going on in the community. Straight away a number on the names on your list, including Kelly and Laird, are not being shopped around as you claim. Kelly for one only just re-signed...

The crows have acknowledged that their premiership window has closed and that their list was built to 'win now'. As part of this acknowledgement, they have clearly communicated, and in some cases encouraged, their mature aged players to look elsewhere. The likes of Greenwood, Keith, Jacobs, Jenkins, Betts and co. were of an age profile that would make it negligent for the crows to keep them if they can release them and potentially even get compensation for them given our premiership window won't likely be open for another 3-4 years. They're finally doing what fans have asked for and committed to blooding youth and not staying a middle of the road team by keeping the same aging list. This approach is common in the NFL and other sports, it's just a bit ruthless but I for one like it and am excited to see what comes from it given the talent in our SANFL side.

As for BCrouch, both his management and the crows were already in contract negotiations, and we can only assume that the crows have indicated they were unwilling to make him our highest parid player. They would've told him to feel free to test the market for a higher value contract knowing that we'll get high end compensation for him. Crows aren't in any rush or under pressure to do anything on the crouch front, it's up to other clubs to come to us and make us want to trade him.

 

[THE_GUN]

I'm not sure you're qualified to be saying what's going on in the community. Straight away a number on the names on your list, including Kelly and Laird, are not being shopped around as you claim. Kelly for one only just re-signed...

The crows have acknowledged that their premiership window has closed and that their list was built to 'win now'. As part of this acknowledgement, they have clearly communicated, and in some cases encouraged, their mature aged players to look elsewhere. The likes of Greenwood, Keith, Jacobs, Jenkins, Betts and co. were of an age profile that would make it negligent for the crows to keep them if they can release them and potentially even get compensation for them given our premiership window won't likely be open for another 3-4 years. They're finally doing what fans have asked for and committed to blooding youth and not staying a middle of the road team by keeping the same aging list. This approach is common in the NFL and other sports, it's just a bit ruthless but I for one like it and am excited to see what comes from it given the talent in our SANFL side.

As for BCrouch, both his management and the crows were already in contract negotiations, and we can only assume that the crows have indicated they ware unwilling to make him our highest parid player. They would've told him to feel free to test the market for a higher value contract knowing that we'll get high end compensation for him. Crows aren't in any rush or under pressure to do anything on the crouch front, it's up to other clubs to come to us and make us want to trade him.

Its not me thats saying this but the entire afl community and with so many contracted players on the move and their management shopping them around it appears that you are in denial as to the whats going on currently at your club but pointless going on about this here we will see in a months time with the fall out after trade period is finished.

 

[When I Crow Up]

Its not me thats saying this but the entire afl community and with so many contracted players on the move and their management shopping them around it appears that you are in denial as to the whats going on currently at your club but pointless going on about this here we will see in a months time with the fall out after trade period is finished.

Not months, you'll see in a couple of weeks and we can revisit these comments. But if you're going to listen to the Vic media and go off what they're spouting then sure, but don't claim others don't know what's going on or need to do their own research when you're regurgitating what to Barrett, Caro and co. are feeding you. I guarantee you there's a lot of Crow fans who are happy and understanding of what's happening and have been asking for this since mid 2018.

 

[THE_GUN]

Not months, you'll see in a couple of weeks and we can revisit these comments. But if you're going to listen to the Vic media and go off what they're spouting then sure, but don't claim others don't know what's going on or need to do their own research when you're regurgitating what to Barrett, Caro and co. are feeding you. I guarantee you there's a lot of Crow fans who are happy and understanding of what's happening and have been asking for this since mid 2018.

Well so far all they have been sprouting has turned out to be true with the players they mentioned already gone public in Betts , Jenkins, Greenwood , Jacobs and so much smoke around other that you just cannot ignore. The Vic media have been going with other things like the camp and coaching issue's which crows supporters here rubbished. maybe You guys should take a bit more notice also

 

[marty36]

Well so far all they have been sprouting has turned out to be true with the players they mentioned already gone public in Betts , Jenkins, Greenwood , Jacobs and so much smoke around other that you just cannot ignore. The Vic media have been going with other things like the camp and coaching issue's which crows supporters here rubbished. maybe You guys should take a bit more notice also

hahahahaha youre hilarious

Players will continue to leave like Buddy or Ablett or Judd

Seriously do you think the AFL community will influence us taking unders, from what is attainable, like Geelong didnt for Kelly or francis with the dons, you my friend are dellusional

THe AFL community in FOX footy even said Adelaide will want a decent deal and will not accept less as they dont need to, what AFL community are you talking off

 

[When I Crow Up]

Well so far all they have been sprouting has turned out to be true with the players they mentioned already gone public in Betts , Jenkins, Greenwood , Jacobs and so much smoke around other that you just cannot ignore. The Vic media have been going with other things like the camp and coaching issue's which crows supporters here rubbished. maybe You guys should take a bit more notice also

And what about Brodie Smith? Cogs? They have gotten plenty wrong already. Given the crows position all they had to do is list a bunch of our senior players and of course they were going to get some right. Their jobs are to speculate and create gossip, if you want to believe everything you hear that's your choice.

And Vic media also accused the crows of lots of things that turned out to be untrue, such as tying players to trees and torturing players with your theme song amongst other things. But again you're drinking the coolaid after 3 successful seasons. Once you go back to the bottom and you're on the wrong side of the media you'll realise and remember all the nonsense they spout.

Anyway this has gotten off the Brad Crouch topic. End of the day it'll be a top 10 pick and then some at a minimum.

 

[Drewie11]

Richmond supporters aren’t interested in him at all are they

 

[THE_GUN]

Richmond supporters aren’t interested in him at all are they

I hope not , My god do we need him lol

 

[Procrastinator35]

Does a straight swap for Lukosius sound fair?....Or does one club need to add something to the equation?....Possibly Greenwood I'm thinking.

 

[marty36]

Does a straight swap for Lukosius sound fair?....Or does one club need to add something to the equation?....Possibly Greenwood I'm thinking.

Depends what would Luko be worth as a trade pick

 

[JUSTWORK]

Does a straight swap for Lukosius sound fair?....Or does one club need to add something to the equation?....Possibly Greenwood I'm thinking.

That won’t happen. GC won’t trade him this year for anything less than what GWS did with boyd. The sweetener would be the crows first pick.

 

[When I Crow Up]

Does a straight swap for Lukosius sound fair?....Or does one club need to add something to the equation?....Possibly Greenwood I'm thinking.

Think it depends on how confident GC are the Luko is going to re-sign. If they're nervous about whether he'll stay then a straight swap seems fair, but given he's a key position player, if they feel close to re-signing him then if I'm GC I'd want something additional I think.

I'd imagine the last thing GC want is another young draftee leaving early in a contract. So if he's not going to stay it's probably in their best interest to move him if they can and think this is a perfect opportunity to do that.