Past Brad Lloyd

[Johnny James]

The attitudes and negativity of a lot of people in here are really starting to wear me down. Constant criticising (whinging) sounds like a race to the bottom. Nearly all of it is without basis or any knowledge at all. I really am sick of it.

Actually sounds like some think they are smarter than those is charge.

Support the club, question issues with facts or sound reasoning but FFS give people a chance. No one is perfect but the club has come a long long way in the last 3 years. Some seem to forget we nearly shut not long ago. The culture was awful and the direction non existent.

So much as improved and we have a clear direction. If you don’t like it, join the board and do something or ........ off [emoji35]

I really am sick of your crap.

Don't get too stressed over it Soapy.
It's human nature, there are glass half full and glass half empty people.
I am a glass half full person.
Some people are actually at their happiest when their criticising.

 

[JustaBattler]

Who would you put in your list of intellectuals here?

how does smart morph into intellectual - what a weird question.

 

[BlueWoof_#39]

He has the credentials and is more than qualified for the position. The people questioning this appointment seem like they want a ‘name’ like the old Carlton....1. I don’t think a Balme or Walsh would want to come to us. 2. We do not know who the other candidates were. Either way, even with a strong field Lloyd would have been strongly considered.

Craig Vozzo & Graham Wright at the Eagles & Hawks both started as List Managers. Dan Richardson at the bombers was a player agent. Lloyd has done both roles....Tom Harley had no real professional experience and he’s at the Swans, I’m sure there is more....not saying everyone needs to be ecstatic but some of these posts are Caro/Cornes level overreactions


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[Captain Cripps]

Head of Football:





http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2018-08-14/lloyd-appointed-head-of-football

That seems too blazè for me

 

[thylacine60]

some typos are hotter than others........

 

[mediumsizered]

He has the credentials and is more than qualified for the position. The people questioning this appointment seem like they want a ‘name’ like the old Carlton....1. I don’t think a Balme or Walsh would want to come to us. 2. We do not know who the other candidates were. Either way, even with a strong field Lloyd would have been strongly considered.

Craig Vozzo & Graham Wright at the Eagles & Hawks both started as List Managers. Dan Richardson at the bombers was a player agent. Lloyd has done both roles....Tom Harley had no real professional experience and he’s at the Swans, I’m sure there is more....not saying everyone needs to be ecstatic but some of these posts are Caro/Cornes level overreactions


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Neil Balme was a failed coach (& thuggish footballer) before he entered the world of footy admin.

What you have rightly outlined is that there is no set qualifications/career path which put you on the way to becoming a successful Head of Footy. In much the same way that being a champion footballer doesn't guarantee a successful coaching career. Some champions have succeeded, but so have a lot footy scrubbers.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I have to admit, I'm not jumping for joy but at the same time, I feel we need to trust the club on this appointment. Must not be a big failure though.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Who would you put in your list of intellectuals here?

Interesting question. What do you think we do for a living?

 

[Arr0w]

Interesting question. What do you think we do for a living?

Perhaps it is footy intellect

 

[Ninja Worrier]

Who would you put in your list of intellectuals here?

I think the intelligentsia all liked the post

 

[Blue and Blue]

I am Intel lectual. It thinks therefore I write.
Though my last computer had an AMD.

 

[1shay]

$50M is big business is it?

lol

Well its not small business...
https://asic.gov.au/for-business/yo...erview/small-business-what-is-small-business/

 

[ferrisb]

So CEO at a football Club means head of marketing/membership/sponsorship
and
Head of Football Operations means bloke who oversees Head of Recruiting/List Management/Coaching/Medical

but the Head of Operations now appointed has no coaching experience and a lot player management and recruiting experience and no Medical management experience...

very fancy MBA from 'Victoria (cough cough) Uni and an Executive MBA from Harvard - which is a pure credentialising inservice course for executives wanting to network and have the name 'Harvard' next to their name going on for 3 months.

which means he can out-jargon the current CEO (maybe)



lemme see now ....Football boss with no experience in 2/3rds of the areas Carlton needs improving on - and plenty of experience in SOS's area....with mixed results according the place he came from...

how exactly does a player manager/list manager become Head of football with no experience in 'football' and no exprience in 'coaching' and no experience in player management ( medical ) ?

Hopefully he can help pull some decent players into Carlton - because quite frankly based on his own experience - he is under qualified for anything else.

I agree with your concerns, but I guess this is a common issue in recruitment. Particularly at an executive level.

You want to hire a CEO? Well your choices are someone who is currently a CEO somewhere else or a CFO/COO/Senior manager that only has 50-70% of the necessary experience but has the right attributes to learn and succeed in the role.

A football manager is tough to hire I think. There is only a pool of 17 other incumbents, plus some ex-managers (who presumably were not good enough to last) or a 'football' manager from another sport. Otherwise I think you are recruiting from 'tier 2' roles; list managers, coaching directors, medical types. Until you are responsible for all three departments at the same time, it's unlikely you will have had direct experience with all three areas. Who moves from being a player manager to a medical role and then into coaching, kind of thing.

Generally, we have gone with unproven in this reset. Bolts was an AFL assistant and VFL coach, but a newbie AFL head coach (which is as much person management as it is football tactical). Liddle was responsible for membership and corporate but was a 2IC type, not CEO. Our coaching assistant hires have generally been younger, line-manager guys, not the Level 4 coaches-in-waiting types.

Not saying I disagree with anything you've said, I just think the perfect candidate almost doesn't exist. The only ones that fit the bill are already working in that role. And we all know MLog's success rate in trying to poach incumbents....

Brad Lloyd is not a name recruitment (Balme, Gubby type), but he's not a nobody. He doesn't tick all the boxes, but he ticks some. I don't know him beyond the limited stuff in the press, so I guess I will watch on from the outside and try and judge his effectiveness in the role.

 

[Blue and Blue]

We wanted a proven chap. I get that.
Balme was unproven once and Wright
Clarkson was unproven.
There are countless examples. One thing in common is they all took time to learn the craft and find success.
At any rate its a pointless discussion because Lloyd is it. Time alone will tell the tale.

I would think having a list manager turn to this role in our situation and to work with SOS and put two heads together on our biggest need, a decent list, is actually a very wise move. Its silly to say Lloyd is to be Silvagnis boss and some kind of strong arm is needed for all Silvagnis mistakes but Lloyd is weak. No they will be colleagues and partners with the same vested interest. The way some people talk here one could be forgiven for thinking they believe the board is working for all other 17 clubs rather than for Carlton. Basically everything that Carlton as a club does is wrong according to the negative spin.

Heck when we win the flag it wont be by a big enough margin and player x will have only got 4 kicks.

 

[Faz 2000]

Hope he does great, by the way.

It's just a bit tricky to know "whether we've got a good one". And likewise, what a good football department manager DOES. How can you tell if the footy department boss is doing a great job? The CHF kicks straighter? Hamstrings come back in 2 weeks instead of 3? An assistance coach signs an extension?

I think the whole football world is grappling with working out what makes successful clubs successful. Hawthorn, Geelong and now Richmond all seem to be very well run. Gold Coast, St Kilda, Carlton... we seem to be at the other end. But perhaps a lot of that perception is based on results? The Tiges won the flag and have nine and a half million members*, does that make every individual in that club the best at what they individually do? Categorically NOT. So how do you pick it apart?

What has Brad Lloyd specifically done at Freo that makes us think he's *this guy* for Carlton? I don't know. But clearly we DO think he's *this guy* so let's back him in and hopefully it goes great.

* estimate for 2019 based on yet again redefining what counts as a "member."

 

[Thrawn]

Another positive he doesn't have that goopy fishface look like his brother does.

 

[BlueGum]

Welcome Brad. Reckon you'll have done a pitch about drawing different parts of the footy department together, common goals, learning etc. I don't mind you don't have experience in the role. Some of the oldies get in a rut and stop innovating or pushing for excellence. See the vet.

Any merit in reaching out to Ange Postecoglu? See if we can tap into the Man City IP for medical and training setups? They've got gazillions invested in players, you'd think they'd be very much into top notch programs. We could get someone involved in a review, or even share some personnel with Melbourne City....

just thinking out loud

 

[thylacine60]

wut?

 

[BlueGum]

shuddup. ive got a cold. it makes sense

 

[JustaBattler]

I agree with your concerns, but I guess this is a common issue in recruitment. Particularly at an executive level.

You want to hire a CEO? Well your choices are someone who is currently a CEO somewhere else or a CFO/COO/Senior manager that only has 50-70% of the necessary experience but has the right attributes to learn and succeed in the role.

A football manager is tough to hire I think. There is only a pool of 17 other incumbents, plus some ex-managers (who presumably were not good enough to last) or a 'football' manager from another sport. Otherwise I think you are recruiting from 'tier 2' roles; list managers, coaching directors, medical types. Until you are responsible for all three departments at the same time, it's unlikely you will have had direct experience with all three areas. Who moves from being a player manager to a medical role and then into coaching, kind of thing.

Generally, we have gone with unproven in this reset. Bolts was an AFL assistant and VFL coach, but a newbie AFL head coach (which is as much person management as it is football tactical). Liddle was responsible for membership and corporate but was a 2IC type, not CEO. Our coaching assistant hires have generally been younger, line-manager guys, not the Level 4 coaches-in-waiting types.

Not saying I disagree with anything you've said, I just think the perfect candidate almost doesn't exist. The only ones that fit the bill are already working in that role. And we all know MLog's success rate in trying to poach incumbents....

Brad Lloyd is not a name recruitment (Balme, Gubby type), but he's not a nobody. He doesn't tick all the boxes, but he ticks some. I don't know him beyond the limited stuff in the press, so I guess I will watch on from the outside and try and judge his effectiveness in the role.

Nothing to disagree with your thinking there Ferris and you make some good points..

here is my point of issue

I don't think the bloke has the runs on the Board to have SOS or Bolton reporting TO HIM ....
put another way - I would prefer that the Board had a direct say on SOS and Bolton's future rather than some bloke from Fremantle who used to hawk players around..
or put another way
I don't think he has the gravitas to dictate to Coaching and List management what their business and how they should go about it or judge them.

The position implies that this is the organisational structure and if so it is a very bad structure.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Nothing to disagree with your thinking there Ferris and you make some good points..

here is my point of issue

I don't think the bloke has the runs on the Board to have SOS or Bolton reporting TO HIM ....
put another way - I would prefer that the Board had a direct say on SOS and Bolton's future rather than some bloke from Fremantle who used to hawk players around..
or put another way
I don't think he has the gravitas to dictate to Coaching and List management what their business and how they should go about it or judge them.

The position implies that this is the organisational structure and if so it is a very bad structure.

I don't think the position involves telling Bolts how to coach or SOS how to recruit. It should involve requesting reports or feedback as to how their area is running and ensuring they are supported and sufficiently resourced.

 

[Metalcrusher]

I'm still coming to terms with the fact we hired a Lloyd ……...

 

[JustaBattler]

I don't think the position involves telling Bolts how to coach or SOS how to recruit. It should involve requesting reports or feedback as to how their area is running and ensuring they are supported and sufficiently resourced.

When a person 'reports to you' - you are the judge of their performance.
What is Head of Football Operations if not the 'CEO' of all things related to football?

I'm just going by organisational chart/structure and reporting lines here.

If the role is (really) something else - well it isn't transparent what the something else might be - nd if so why would it require him to be the CEO of Football Operations.

To be clear I am not against the person appointed - I am just scratching my head wondering what qualifies him ( given his demonstrated experience and skill set) to be the boss of blokes like SOS and Bolton.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

When a person 'reports to you' - you are the judge of their performance.
What is Head of Football Operations if not the 'CEO' of all things related to football?

I'm just going by organisational chart/structure and reporting lines here.

If the role is (really) something else - well it isn't transparent what the something else might be - nd if so why would it require him to be the CEO of Football Operations.

To be clear I am not against the person appointed - I am just scratching my head wondering what qualifies him ( given his demonstrated experience and skill set) to be the boss of blokes like SOS and Bolton.

He can't fire them without board approval. He can't tell them to do their job. It's just a reporting requirement really. What qualification did McKay have?

He certainly has an impressive Executive education behind him.

 

[thylacine60]

our very good friend matthew lloyd will no longer be able to spill on any rumours out of carlton.........