Brad Scott in The Age

[Daveo Plonk]

Is it fair to say that Brad Scott bought into the media's perception of the club?

Very fair DR, good call.

Every time I hear the word "elite" I reach for my gun.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

FWIW I dont associate the "Shinboner" term with poor facilities and struggling finances....

to me its never giving up......playing for your team mates and winning against the odds........on the field..........

every game where the shinboner spirit is raised is where we have have either come from behind or won a game we shouldnt off or had injuries etc etc.......to be honest when the after match talks about the shinboner spirit the heart starts pumping a little quicker..........thats what it means to me...


Scotts comments about elite facilities..elite preparation...elite mindset is a sound one........the best in the world regardless of sport have that mindset....I will win because I have prepared better and because I am mentally stronger than my opponent...the decisions made at those crucial moments define the outcome..
QUOTE]

Agree with all that.

 

[snrub]

Dunno. You registered in October 09.

LOL yeah it does remind me of that dark time in history when Johnny Howard used the word constantly to pigeon hole and isolate Kim Beasley

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Sounds about right. Add to that, our marketing people decided to stage an event to coincide with the 80th anniversary of our admission to the VFL, calling it "The North Story" and handing out a somewhat contrived award called "The Shinboner of the Century". Notably the recipient of the award on the night had virtually no idea what it was for or what it was all about.

So in a nutshell, after 50 odd years of burying the Shinboner moniker, one coach decided to resurrect it occasionally as a motivational tool for players. The marketing department used it briefly to sell memberships. And now another coach wants to give it a rest for a while for the benefit of player motivation.

It occurs to me that people who believe North Melbourne Football Club stands for abbatoir workers and this ancient Shinboner idea have been conned by a Denis Pagan gimmick, Eddie McGuire's exploitative jingoism, and a bunch of lazy journalists. This club is much more than a hackneyed cliche.

Of course it is. And it is also more than its facilities and more than the strategies of whoever is running it at any given time.

I'm probably a bit senstitive after reading Robert Shaw's book on footy over the holidays. His wife's family are old North Melbourne and he talks a lot about its history - and a lot about Fitzroy's history, and the history of other clubs in various competititions - and it's all focused on the people along the way, being proud of your past with all its rough edges and protecting and celebrating unique history. He doesn't make complete sense but it's very passionate.

Pagan didn't invent the Shinboners but it suited his personality and his past and the times to bring it back. As it must have suited the people who worked to bury it decades earlier. And it suits the media to have something in this sanitised age to pick up on anything that differentiates the clubs - yes it's lazy and has many downsides the way they play it, but it has upsides too. And it has suited and contuinues to suit plenty of us to hang onto it through a time where "Kangaroos" became code for our club being lost in a marketing pitch to anywhere else in Australia.

I'm more than happy with everything else that is happening and everything else Scott says here. I have a lot of faith that the club's current leaders can find a way to hold onto what is valuable and uplifting in our history while they strike ahead in new directions. I'm just flagging that I want to see our "new game" still have Shinboners in it. I picked this club because North Melbourne was my first home in Victoria, and its history helped me see everything around me in a special light.

Anyway - my main reaction to this srticle is that IT IS EVEN PRINTED IN THE SYDNEY MORNING HERALD. First time on my family holiday that I get to read anything of any depth that's not about a Swan. Go Heath and Brad!

 

[Zvim]

He didn't say anything wrong, just that we are not going to focus on being the battler, which is the perception the general public have of us.

Media have always been looking for excuses to explain why we win when they write us off. Saying Shinboner Spirit is a cop out for them when they should say they got it wrong and their expert opinion isn't very expert.

They don't question the Shinboner Spirit after all those laughable performances, where was that spirit when we got bent over and *******ed in the last games of club champions. If we had that spirit we would never have rolled over without a whimper.

I'm just sick of it being used as an excuse for others losing and pegging us as battlers and having the wrong opinion and paint the wrong image about the club.

 

[TexDeadly]

This is a ripping thread. Without seeing the full transcript of the Scott interview, I'm of the opinion that the author (Gleeson) has jumped on one of Scott's comments and really tried to ram home the whole distancing the club from the Shinboner tag. To me, Scott is only trying to achieve what all great coaches and teams aim for - creating his own indelible in-print on the legacy of the NMFC and for that matter, the AFL. Forging a new chapter in the club's history, which will be defined by how his football team plays the game and ultimately, how it performs.

Scott is aiming to take the club to a new level and I for one, can't wait to take the ride.

 

[Wells Train]

This is a ripping thread. Without seeing the full transcript of the Scott interview, I'm of the opinion that the author (Gleeson) has jumped on one of Scott's comments and really tried to ram home the whole distancing the club from the Shinboner tag. To me, Scott is only trying to achieve what all great coaches and teams aim for - creating his own indelible in-print on the legacy of the NMFC and for that matter, the AFL. Forging a new chapter in the club's history, which will be defined by how his football team plays the game and ultimately, how it performs.

Scott is aiming to take the club to a new level and I for one, can't wait to take the ride.

Yes
Yes and
Hell Yes

Hopefully this thread can become the norm around here making it much more enticing to filter through the pages, expecting some insightful responses coupled with some humour. Like the club BF may be taking a new direction

 

[Northern Exposure]

Agreed, some great discussion in this thread.

I think there is a big difference between how the media (and the rest of the football public) and we as North Melbourne people define "shinboner spirit". The negative connotation is pushed by the media but we see it as something much more positive.

My grandfather never referred to us as the Kangaroos, he always called us the Shinboners. I am happy to keep using it in reference to the North Melbourne Football club.

 

[Kimbo]

...it has suited and contuinues to suit plenty of us to hang onto it through a time where "Kangaroos" became code for our club being lost in a marketing pitch to anywhere else in Australia.

I picked this club because North Melbourne was my first home in Victoria, and its history helped me see everything around me in a special light.

Anyway - my main reaction to this srticle is that IT IS EVEN PRINTED IN THE SYDNEY MORNING HERALD. First time on my family holiday that I get to read anything of any depth that's not about a Swan. Go Heath and Brad!

I notice an association between quality of thread and H2H having something to say.

Your own story highlights, I think, that our own personal histories and connections with the club also play a part in how we see this issue. For me, growing up in Canberra in the 70s, my first exposures to the NMFC included, as Blight von Torp highlighted, Lou Richards' comments about North Melbourne/the Kangaroos looking a million dollars! Never heard of the Shinboners till Pagan came along.

So what? Well, for me, I'd be more than happy to see 'the Kangaroos' powerfully reclaimed as our moniker (too). No doubt, for many, it has been tainted when the name North Melbourne was removed, but the name's back and the Kangaroos we still are. I'd like it if we didn't cringe when we are also referred to as the Kangaroos. Carn the Roos!

And yes, good to see the article in the SMH. More signs of good work being done by our club! This administration is doing the sorts of things many of us thought possible previously and wondered why they weren't. It's an odd thing to say that I'm as proud (perhaps more so right now) of my membership of the NMFC because of the off-field leadership and success. Love to celebrate a Premiership and being debt free in a few years!!

 

[mi_hrvati]

Love this shit!!!

Gives me the feeling that Scott and the boys will be creating a dynasty in years to come

 

[Marstermind]

My two cents...

The phrase "Shinboner" is a very emotive one for North people. It reflects our heritage and our culture and, despite its somewhat negative inference of being the perpetual underdog, has always been expressed as a positive and a compliment.

On the other hand, emotive language, however relevant, tends to add shades of grey to any debate. So I'll try to express my opinion without using the phrase "Shinboner"...

No one can convince me otherwise to the fact that for the best part of 10 years North's image across the wider AFL community has been on the nose. At best, it's an image of a dogged and tenacious foe who must be respected but ultimately disregarded at the real crunch times. At worst, it's the image of an irrelevant entity who despite some gutsy efforts are basically of no great interest in the big picture and would be better off either a couple of thousand kilometres away or not in existence at all.

Any intelligent bloke who can walk into our club and respectfully say, "This must change" has my vote and can do so any way he sees fit.

 

[Rippednew1]

My two cents...

The phrase "Shinboner" is a very emotive one for North people. It reflects our heritage and our culture and, despite its somewhat negative inference of being the perpetual underdog, has always been expressed as a positive and a compliment.

No one can convince me otherwise to the fact that for the best part of 10 years North's image across the wider AFL community has been on the nose. At best, it's an image of a dogged and tenacious foe who must be respected but ultimately disregarded at the real crunch times. At worst, it's the image of an irrelevant entity who despite some gutsy efforts are basically of no great interest in the big picture and would be better off either a couple of thousand kilometres away or not in existence at all.

Any intelligent bloke who can walk into our club and respectfully say, "This must change" has my vote and can do so any way he sees fit.

Hate to say the obvious but this sounds like the moment JYD walked the image of the club improved 50% naturally.

Was always going to be difficult for someone like Laidley to escape the battler, dogged, rugged, cheap image especially with his merry band of half backs and ordinary disposing utilities.

Paying a character like Scott decent money to represent the shinboners is already over half the job done.

The new facilities and star recruits take care of the other half and some timely and wise words from Bon should seal the deal.

The mission for respect is happening naturally and shouldn't necessarily be done to death whilst disrespecting the history of the club and that invaluable 'spirit' putting the club in a unique position.

 

[Horace]

It seems to me that the real issue is not what we are called, whether it is the North Melbourne Shinboners or the North Melbourne Kangaroos.

The real issue that Scott is/should be enunciating is that our club no longer can use as excuses, “poor training facilities”, “lack of finance”, “under resourced coaching and administration departments” as reasons for poor on field outcomes. Those reasons are now a cop out.

I actually believe however that they never were really the true reasons why we never threatened to win a premiership in the period 2000 to 2009. The real reason was a very simple one. It had nothing to do with any of the above; in my opinion it had all to do with the playing group never in any of those years being good enough.

I think it is admirable for Scott to state that those reasons are no longer valid, because it also takes away possible excuses for him as well. I just don’t think that the Shinboner spirit should in anyway be intertwined with those reasons.

 

[Twinkletoes]

Hopefully this thread can become the norm around here making it much more enticing to filter through the pages, expecting some insightful responses coupled with some humour. Like the club BF may be taking a new direction

Yes, this thread harks back to a few years ago when posting was well considered, and issues stewed over, debated, and solved, with passion shining through each post.

The more things change, the more they stay the same, right?

BF's BACK BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABY

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

It seems to me that the real issue is not what we are called, whether it is the North Melbourne Shinboners or the North Melbourne Kangaroos.

The real issue that Scott is/should be enunciating is that our club no longer can use as excuses, “poor training facilities”, “lack of finance”, “under resourced coaching and administration departments” as reasons for poor on field outcomes. Those reasons are now a cop out.

I actually believe however that they never were really the true reasons why we never threatened to win a premiership in the period 2000 to 2009. The real reason was a very simple one. It had nothing to do with any of the above; in my opinion it had all to do with the playing group never in any of those years being good enough.

I think it is admirable for Scott to state that those reasons are no longer valid, because it also takes away possible excuses for him as well. I just don’t think that the Shinboner spirit should in anyway be intertwined with those reasons.

Bingo.

The perception has been bandied around due to the fact that during Laidley's tenure, we didnt have enough quality on our list to challenge the top sides on a consistant basis therefore were seen as 'battlers'

Sure we beat a top side occaisionally, against the odds as many would suggest, but were never really in the hunt when the pointy end of the season came around, sans a season or two.

I would like to think our list is in the best shape it has been for a while, with plenty to work with. Even though there will always be those in the media who will tow the party line with the "shinboner' tag.

 

[Twinkletoes]

Why does this have to be a Dean v Brad thread? Do we really need to highlight the changes our club has been through from the time Dean took over to when Brad walked into the place?

No we don't windsock. The sooner we all move on the better. Brad's at the helm now, and that's what matters.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Why does this have to be a Dean v Brad thread? Do we really need to highlight the changes our club has been through from the time Dean took over to when Brad walked into the place?

If this is in reference to my post, I was merely pointing out the perception was that we were refered to as "battlers" cause we lacked quality personel on and off the field during Laidley's coaching tenure.

On the odd occasion where we did something unexpected, it was put down to the "shinboner spirirt' and not the players or coaches who performed well.

 

[Wells Train]

If this is in reference to my post, I was merely pointing out the perception was that we were refered to as "battlers" cause we lacked quality personel on and off the field during Laidley's coaching tenure.

On the odd occasion where we did something unexpected, it was put down to the "shinboner spirirt' and not the players or coaches who performed well.

During this period we also lost arguably our greatest ever player and coach within minutes of each other, coming off the back of a golden era maybe we were expected(by so called experts) to bottom out winning a few spoons. With a nickname JYD , some terrible finals performances and don't forget with a percieved weak list maybe the media couldn't believe we weren't stone cold last. So shinboner spirit became their excuse for getting it wrong when predicting the winner. Just a thought anyhow.
I think we didn't bottom out because of our culture and certain individuals who just wouldn't accept that. Now shinboner spirit isn't all of the above, but it is certainly a part of it.

 

[Maroon Goon]

I'm a little more intrested in a story in the Hearald sun yesterday on page 14. Wich outlines HUGE losse's by clubs MONEY wise.
And reading the Age story as i did the other day this may also be why there needs to be PREFESSIONAL athletes and players.
Its the old story of money and how a few clubs may not be around in a few years. AH La Western Bulldogs Richmond Nth and so on.
It makes intresting Reading. We better be proffesional,Or fall by the wayside.

 

[blackshadow]

I'm a little more intrested in a story in the Hearald sun yesterday on page 14. Wich outlines HUGE losse's by clubs MONEY wise.
And reading the Age story as i did the other day this may also be why there needs to be PREFFESIONAL athletes and players.
Its the old story of money and how a few clubs may not be around in a few years. AH La Western Bulldogs Richmond Nth and so on.
It makes intresting Reading. We better be proffesional,Or fall by the wayside.

Im al for PREFFESIONAL

 

[Maroon Goon]

ooops not very proffesssional of me lol.

 

[sutcliffe's hotel]

My two cents...

The phrase "Shinboner" is a very emotive one for North people. It reflects our heritage and our culture and, despite its somewhat negative inference of being the perpetual underdog, has always been expressed as a positive and a compliment.

For me the appeal of the "shinboner" tag grew with each attempt to dilute our identity and move us away from Arden St. The tag was always positive as it evoked & celebrated our 100 year plus history & our roots in North Melbourne.

I accept the need to market our great club & Brad Scott seems to be at the cutting edge of positivity & excellence, just like the magnificent Euge.

However as a member of the faithful I am part owner of the shinboner spirit & am proud to name it, use it and celebrate it. If other messages need to be given priority, so be it. But a shinboner I will remain, proudly and passionately.

 

[roo_boy_29]

I agree that this article started out shit. But I reckon it got shitter.

"Different coaches have different thoughts on that. If we can kick 20 goals and the opposition kick 18, we still win. No, I don't want a side kicking 18 goals a week against us and hoping we kick 20,” Scott said.

I'd rather go see 38 goals kicked each week rather than single figures for each team. We need forwards to emerge quickly or we will be everyone's idea of the ugliest side in the league to watch.

I totally disagree with that. I love a tough arm wrestle game of footy. Why do people have this idea that seeing 40 goals in a match is better that 22. Those west coast-sydney grand finals where hardly any goals were scored were some of the best ive ever seen. If Carlton, Melbourne and Essendon think they are going to become a good football side letting the opposition kick 18 goals a week then good on them, but you only have to look at Central District (SANFL) who have played in 10 grand finals straight and won 8 flags in 10 years relying purely on defensive pressure first. You worry about when you've got the ball when you have busted your balls to get it off the opposition. Look at how we beat St Kilda last season? How many goals that day. It's not ugly. It's tough. If you cant defend you can't win a flag. I hope brad Scott instils accountability first. I dont care if we only win 4 games next year aslong as we never get belted and are accountable that sits fine with me.

 

[Horace]

For me the appeal of the "shinboner" tag grew with each attempt to dilute our identity and move us away from Arden St. The tag was always positive as it evoked & celebrated our 100 year plus history & our roots in North Melbourne.

I accept the need to market our great club & Brad Scott seems to be at the cutting edge of positivity & excellence, just like the magnificent Euge.

However as a member of the faithful I am part owner of the shinboner spirit & am proud to name it, use it and celebrate it. If other messages need to be given priority, so be it. But a shinboner I will remain, proudly and passionately.

Excellent post sutcliffe's hotel. very well said.

 

[numchuks]

What a disgusting attitude. Sack Scott.