Official Club Stuff BREAKING: Luke Sayers steps down effective immediately (Jan 22nd)!

[BigFrizz36]

Driver: “Sorry officer, I didn’t realise the car was going 120kmh in a 100kmh zone.
Officer: “But you were at the wheel?”
Driver: “well yes, it was my job to drive the car … but it has a mind of its own.”
Officer: “sorry, that excuse isn’t going to cut it, I’m afraid sir.”

Not even remotely similar and frankly a terrible analogy. Actually what you are saying is more like
Driver - "sorry officer, I didn't realise that the car was going 120km in a 100km zone."
Officer - "no problems, I see that you are in a PWC car so it is clearly the fault of the CEO. We will send the fine to him".

 

[HarryFlashman]

It's actually not obvious at all. But he might.

PWC have 8000 staff in Australia. About 6 years ago one of their top tax experts was hired by the government to help draft legislation to help stop multinationals avoid tax. Stupidly enough this bloke thought he'd be clever and use this info on behalf of PWC to get more business by using the knowledge that he'd got from the government's contract.

Bloke in question got banned for a couple of years. Now it is down to others in the company that we're made aware of the info and thought it was a good idea to take advantage of it.

Like most large companies PWC would have maybe 7 different departments the heads if each would report to the CEO (at the time Luke Sayers). The taxation department would be one of these.

It is a perfectly reasonable assumption that Sayers had absolutely no knowledge of what happened. People would be paid plenty to ensure that there departments run to their satisfaction and ensuring that there is no need for the CEO to get involved.

It is also perfectly reasonable to assume that the CEO knew about it and turned a blind eye. It appears that the senate committee has a record of all of the people involved via email chains so there will be nowhere to hide if he was involved.

Sorry for the long post but there is a large gap between "he is a crook and must go" to the actual reality.

Come on, 9 partners stood down already, 52 had direct knowledge, they were marketing it to their clients!
Hundreds of people would have known, no way he didn’t know.
Devils advocate- he didn’t have any idea & he is truly the most incompetent leader to ever head such a company.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Come on, 9 stood down already, 52 had direct knowledge, they were marketing it to their clients!
Hundreds of people would have known, no way he didn’t know.
Devils advocate- he didn’t have any idea & he is truly the most incompetent leader to ever head such a company.

So you are saying 61 people out of a staff of 8000 had knowledge. So under 1%. Not sure that you are making as strong an argument that you believe that you are.

Once again he is entitled to the presumption of innocence. If he is found to have been a willing participant then he will have to stand down.

"No way he didn't know" is a declaration of guilt based on ????

 

[HarryFlashman]

No it doesn't, do the Mathieson's donate money because they love the club or because they want a say in what going on. Surely their priority is success for Carlton, which we have had none of since they jumped on at board level.

How about you donate 9 figures to the club then we can all sit here and assume your motives- just make sure u stump up the cash first

 

[Blue and Blue]

How about you donate 9 figures to the club then we can all sit here and assume your motives- just make sure u stump up the cash first

Pretty funny that you speak to someone about assumptions.................

 

[HarryFlashman]

So you are saying 61 people out of a staff of 8000 had knowledge. So under 1%. Not sure that you are making as strong an argument that you believe that you are.

Once again he is entitled to the presumption of innocence. If he is found to have been a willing participant then he will have to stand down.

"No way he didn't know" is a declaration of guilt based on ????

It was a department he was linked to- come on why stretch so far to defend him?
want to explain why he stepped down from his wife’s board & what she was accused of? he didn’t know what she was doing was illegal either? Come on, blokes a crook, just a well polished one.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

So you are saying 61 people out of a staff of 8000 had knowledge.

Partners aren't normal employees lol.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Partners aren't normal employees lol.

There are 802 partners at pwc. It's not like a law firm.

 

[BigFrizz36]

It was a department he was linked to- come on why stretch so far to defend him?
want to explain why he stepped down from his wife’s board & what she was accused of? he didn’t know what she was doing was illegal either? Come on, blokes a crook, just a well polished one.

He was linked to all departments, he was the CEO.

I have no interest in his wife as it has nothing to do with this conversation.

My stance is that, like all people , he is innocent till proven otherwise. If he is proven to be involved then he must stand down. I am very keen to hear how you can pronounce him as "a crook" prior to any evidence being presented against him.

 

[HarryFlashman]

He was linked to all departments, he was the CEO.

I have no interest in his wife as it has nothing to do with this conversation.

My stance is that, like all people , he is innocent till proven otherwise. If he is proven to be involved then he must stand down. I am very keen to hear how you can pronounce him as "a crook" prior to any evidence being presented against him.

So the bloke with the severed head in one hand & a bloody knife in the other, isn’t guilty until a jury of his peers have reached a verdict a few year after the event.
There’s a presumption of innocence & then there’s damning evidence alluding to the fact someone did something dodgy.

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

I’d like to nominate Peter O’Farrell for club president he has easily been the best performed Carlton representative over the last 2 years.

 

[BigFrizz36]

So the bloke with the severed head in one hand & a bloody knife in the other, isn’t guilty until a jury of his peers have reached a verdict a few year after the event.
There’s a presumption of innocence & then there’s damning evidence alluding to the fact someone did something dodgy.

"Severed head and bloody knife".

Think that you might have taken a wrong turn at the Game of Thrones thread.

What damning evidence do you have access to that no one else has?

 

[Arr0w]

Fair bit of agenda driven posting in this thread of late, without really taking a stance, even though that stance is reasonably clear.

Perhaps being clear and concise as to the steps you want taken moving forward would fast track healthier discussion

For me, if Sayers is found to have been embroiled in unsavoury, illegal behaviour and or his energy to run the club has been diminished, then he should step aside, with the VP taking interim control till the end of the year

At that point, you consider all viable candidates based on a known, transparent strategy, to take the club to the next phase

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

How about you donate 9 figures to the club then we can all sit here and assume your motives- just make sure u stump up the cash first

I give the club more than enough considering I earn a ****teenth of that.

Being rich does not make you a good board member. Despite good intentions.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

There are 802 partners at pwc. It's not like a law firm.

Changes your point completely though. Ceo's own group + that many partners is significant enough. Plus the case at the fed court nothing to do with this one and the various other murmurings. Who knows but yeah can't really say he is clear of it all. Would be an odd ceo to not know of all this stuff during his time .... Odd at best.

 

[Dramoth]

You sound a bit like you talked yourself from saying "he won't do it to" to " he should do it" whilst you were posting.



Good points though.

Both sides mate... both sides.

If he says no, I'm not going to be disappointed, if he joins the board, all good.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Changes your point completely though. Ceo's own group + that many partners is significant enough. Plus the case at the fed court nothing to do with this one and the various other murmurings. Who knows but yeah can't really say he is clear of it all. Would be an odd ceo to not know of all this stuff during his time .... Odd at best.

But definitely possible. We're not talking balance of probability here. Certain posters have passed judgement as 100,% guilty based on nothing more than the vibe.

Nothing changes about my point. My point is that no one on here knows whether Luke Sayers had any knowledge or participation in the scheme although some believe that they do.

The senate committee, the media and investigations will show either way whether there was any guilt. If there is he will and should go.

 

[DangerousD]

Surely that meeting last night was a meeting of the minds (that matter) on what to do now unitedly.

Luke Sayers is untenable. So surely he put that right at the front of the meeting, how are we going to proceed when i very soon announce that i am resigning. Fitzy is obviously going to use his heft to support what is going to happen next. I don't know what that "next" is going to be, but it is coming.

Sayers, Cook, Fitzpatrick and guys like Sellars were mapping out the next internal and public month.

This is the first post I’ve read where someone actually speculated on what the meeting was about.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Driver: “Sorry officer, I didn’t realise the car was going 120kmh in a 100kmh zone.
Officer: “But you were at the wheel?”
Driver: “well yes, it was my job to drive the car … but it has a mind of its own.”
Officer: “sorry, that excuse isn’t going to cut it, I’m afraid sir.”

Driver:"Well Officer, here, why don't you take it for a test drive and see for yourself"
Officer: "Ok I will"
.......
Officer:"You're right, this thing has a mind of its own"
Driver:"Told ya. Guess Ill be on my way then"
Officer: "Yep, I guess so, have a good day Sir"
Driver:"You too officer, ta ta now".

 

[BigFrizz36]

This is the first post I’ve read where someone actually speculated on what the meeting was about.

Was pretty sure that it was a regular already arranged function and not a meeting as such.

 

[Michael Jezz]

So you are saying 61 people out of a staff of 8000 had knowledge. So under 1%. Not sure that you are making as strong an argument that you believe that you are.

Once again he is entitled to the presumption of innocence. If he is found to have been a willing participant then he will have to stand down.

"No way he didn't know" is a declaration of guilt based on ????

Luke Sayers was CEO of PWC. He was either negligent for not knowing or liable for knowing. Sayers signed up and probably had directorial responsibilities under the law to know what was going on at a PWC.
The problem with Sayers is he comes from a consultancy culture, where you steal a watch and tell everyone the time or conduct a review, when after being on the board for 12 years, you should have the answers.
Let's be frank a Luke Sayers, due to his consultancy background is a failure as carlton president

 

[I AM CARLTON]

My mail is the board position vacated will need to be filled. Make of that what you will.

 

[Arr0w]

Luke Sayers was CEO of PWC. He was either negligent for not knowing or liable for knowing. Sayers signed up and probably had directorial responsibilities under the law to know what was going on at a PWC.
The problem with Sayers is he comes from a consultancy culture, where you steal a watch and tell everyone the time or conduct a review, when after being on the board for 12 years, you should have the answers.
Let's be frank a Luke Sayers, due to his consultancy background is a failure as carlton president

Many presidents, past or present are consultants, in one shape or form

Can't think of background that is more or less successful than another

 

[Bostonian]

My mail is the board position vacated will need to be filled. Make of that what you will.

Given all the dead wood at the club I think this guy might be the perfect fit to fill that void.

Doesn't say much but a good listener.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Luke Sayers was CEO of PWC. He was either negligent for not knowing or liable for knowing. Sayers signed up and probably had directorial responsibilities under the law to know what was going on at a PWC.
The problem with Sayers is he comes from a consultancy culture, where you steal a watch and tell everyone the time or conduct a review, when after being on the board for 12 years, you should have the answers.
Let's be frank a Luke Sayers, due to his consultancy background is a failure as carlton president

I agree that you have said the phrase "consultancy culture" a lot of times over the journey. The sentence "Lets be frank a Luke Sayers, due to his consultancy background is a failure as Carlton president" is the sort of gobbledygook that consultants would steer well clear of.