Official Club Stuff BREAKING: Luke Sayers steps down effective immediately (Jan 22nd)!

[Blue and Blue]

Luke Sayers was CEO of PWC. He was either negligent for not knowing or liable for knowing. Sayers signed up and probably had directorial responsibilities under the law to know what was going on at a PWC.
The problem with Sayers is he comes from a consultancy culture, where you steal a watch and tell everyone the time or conduct a review, when after being on the board for 12 years, you should have the answers.
Let's be frank a Luke Sayers, due to his consultancy background is a failure as carlton president

Honestly mate. Who cares what he does for a quid as long it is not illegal or immoral. Maybe give this pwc thing a rest; we all get it but the inquiry will deal with it. And nor is he a failure as President despite yours and some others constant assertions. But it is a failure of sorts albeit indirectly when the team is in a slump. And that is what fuels all this angst.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Many presidents, past or present are consultants, in one shape or form

Can't think of background that is more or less successful than another

Pratt, Elliot, legiudace were responsible for operational business. Sayers is an accountant who runs a consultancy. It is report writing not conducive to gladiatorial football. In any case look at the results of Sayers review....A complete shambles

 

[Michael Jezz]

I agree that you have said the phrase "consultancy culture" a lot of times over the journey. The sentence "Lets be frank a Luke Sayers, due to his consultancy background is a failure as Carlton president" is the sort of gobbledygook that consultants would steer well clear of.

How is Sayer's working for us?

 

[SBYM]

this bloke's hilarious efforts to big note himself around here are just that - his "we are hearing" crap sounds like the sad ministrations of a red carpet reporter at a primary school pie night.....

Any word on the pies?

It's a pretty sweet moment when the temperature is just right...

 

[HarryFlashman]

But definitely possible. We're not talking balance of probability here. Certain posters have passed judgement as 100,% guilty based on nothing more than the vibe.

Nothing changes about my point. My point is that no one on here knows whether Luke Sayers had any knowledge or participation in the scheme although some believe that they do.

The senate committee, the media and investigations will show either way whether there was any guilt. If there is he will and should go.

The senate committee? With his ties to government I’m sure it will be a fair & balanced investigation.
Senate committee: “did u do it?”
Sayers: “nope”
Senate committee:”good enough for us, heres another contract for your trouble”

 

[windows1]

I think people can hold whatever view they want. No one on this forum would be in the inner sanctum (maybe a couple)

So those thoughts or comparing them to other clubs, in different eras would be, as valid to any other persons opinion

IMHO, board members play a minimal role in a coaches gameplan and tactics

Sides like Richmond, Cats, Hawks, even Melbourne had minimal changes at board level just prior to their success

Does it work in every environment, no, but there is no single blueprint for success

What’s your thesis? Sound almost like you think the people who appoint the CEO and sign off on all key appointments such as the coach don’t have an influence in the success or otherwise of the club?

Else what is the point of diminishing their impact? I am diametrically opposed to this view. The Chair and Board dictate the most important decisions. They decide the deciders.

Unless it’s all luck of course. I’m which case No one or anything matters at all.

 

[thylacine60]

Any word on the pies?

It's a pretty sweet moment when the temperature is just right...

every kid's first tattoo came from nuclear hot gravy down the chin from a burst pie..........

 

[Blue and Blue]

Fair bit of agenda driven posting in this thread of late, without really taking a stance, even though that stance is reasonably clear.

Perhaps being clear and concise as to the steps you want taken moving forward would fast track healthier discussion

For me, if Sayers is found to have been embroiled in unsavoury, illegal behaviour and or his energy to run the club has been diminished, then he should step aside, with the VP taking interim control till the end of the year

At that point, you consider all viable candidates based on a known, transparent strategy, to take the club to the next phase

It's the classic character driven rather than results driven type agenda.

 

[Blue and Silver]

How so? From all accounts the business the company received as a result of the duplicitous scheme was a very very small amount of the total turnover of the company.

If he had no knowledge whatsoever of the scheme then he is innocent and has nothing to answer for.

If he did then he should be on his way.

Again, I think we're evading the key problem.

Luke has a responsibility to keep PWC on the right side of the law.

Given that the firm didn't exactly come forward, furiously apologizing with a full account of the misdeeds and their extent, it is reasonable to assume that Luke either did not know of a sizeable conspiracy to break the law within the organization or endorsed it (tacitly or otherwise).

I can see you have tried to minimize or explain away the situation, but if Luke didn't know, then he ought to have, because he was responsible for what his subordinates managed.

This is how a hierarchy is supposed to work.

Of course you could suggest that the hierarchy is actually meant to insulate the powerful from responsibility and to funnel all benefits to a select few.

 

[BigFrizz36]

How is Sayer's working for us?

I'll let Michael Jezz from September last year answer that "I do acknowledge that Voss, Cook and Sayers have taken us from pathetic irrelevancy to competitiveness but question whether the pre-requisite urgency and desire exist to contend for a premiership".

So you were happy to note the improvement under Sayers last year. No consultants (or their culture) have been involved with the club since then.

It appears that you had Sayers in 2022 as a qualified success. 2023 as a failure. If we were to win our next 11 and the flag (granted unlikely) would you swing back to him being successful.?

 

[teagueyubeauty]

every kid's first tattoo came from nuclear hot gravy down the chin from a burst pie..........

Yep, right after they’ve had lukewarm pies at the footy for weeks on end and then one day get given a pie straight out of Mordor.
Completely unexpected, 5 layers of skin torched on the inside of the mouth and 3rd degree burns on the chin spitting it out


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[BigFrizz36]

Again, I think we're evading the key problem.

Luke has a responsibility to keep PWC on the right side of the law.

Given that the firm didn't exactly come forward, furiously apologizing with a full account of the misdeeds and their extent, it is reasonable to assume that Luke either did not know of a sizeable conspiracy to break the law within the organization or endorsed it (tacitly or otherwise).

I can see you have tried to minimize or explain away the situation, but if Luke didn't know, then he ought to have, because he was responsible for what his subordinates managed.

This is how a hierarchy is supposed to work.

Of course you could suggest that the hierarchy is actually meant to insulate the powerful from responsibility and to funnel all benefits to a select few.

As I understand Peter Collins (at the centre of the allegations) was first hauled in front of a tribunal in 2022 where he was barred for 2 years. This was 2 years after Luke Sayers had left the company. Clearly he had no role in apologising etc.

For some reason some on here seem to believe that I am saying he is innocent (or as you say minimize etc). This is not the case. What I am saying is that at this time there has not been one iota of evidence to suggest his involvement in any way shape or form.

Yet some on here are calling him a crook.

Time will tell. If found complicit he he must vacate the position.

 

[SBYM]

every kid's first tattoo came from nuclear hot gravy down the chin from a burst pie..........

Looks like Big Pie got to Thy again...

 

[Blue and Silver]

As I understand Peter Collins (at the centre of the allegations) was first hauled in front of a tribunal in 2022 where he was barred for 2 years. This was 2 years after Luke Sayers had left the company. Clearly he had no role in apologising etc.

For some reason some on here seem to believe that I am saying he is innocent (or as you say minimize etc). This is not the case. What I am saying is that at this time there has not been one iota of evidence to suggest his involvement in any way shape or form.

Yet some on here are calling him a crook.

Time will tell. If found complicit he he must vacate the position.

Leak occurs in 2016. ATO raises concern in 2017, attempts a referral to the AFP in 2018, who did not act. Refers to Tax Practitioners board in July 2020 breaking the story in public.

Sayers left in May.

So he is the boss during all of the actual misdeeds and leaves just as the heat is about to come

 

[Michael Jezz]

I'll let Michael Jezz from September last year answer that "I do acknowledge that Voss, Cook and Sayers have taken us from pathetic irrelevancy to competitiveness but question whether the pre-requisite urgency and desire exist to contend for a premiership".

So you were happy to note the improvement under Sayers last year. No consultants (or their culture) have been involved with the club since then.

It appears that you had Sayers in 2022 as a qualified success. 2023 as a failure. If we were to win our next 11 and the flag (granted unlikely) would you swing back to him being successful.?

You might want to reference the second half of that quote or the hundreds of times, I was referred to as negative over the past 5 years when I didn't believe we were any good or even go back to the preseason where I said our list is way off the mark. If that is too confronting for you just watch the way we play or digest the fact we have won 7.5 of our last 22 games. The ladder does not lie.

 

[Arr0w]

Pratt, Elliot, legiudace were responsible for operational business. Sayers is an accountant who runs a consultancy. It is report writing not conducive to gladiatorial football. In any case look at the results of Sayers review....A complete shambles

Widen your scope, there are 17 other clubs, many more successful than us over recent times, many that have consultant type presidents

So, forget what Sayers is, focus on what does

What’s your thesis? Sound almost like you think the people who appoint the CEO and sign off on all key appointments such as the coach don’t have an influence in the success or otherwise of the club?

Else what is the point of diminishing their impact? I am diametrically opposed to this view. The Chair and Board dictate the most important decisions. They decide the deciders.

Unless it’s all luck of course. I’m which case No one or anything matters at all.

Their influence is limited when it comes to onfield output, especially short term, let alone anytime

Essentially Cook or his position is the driving factor in bringing people/groups together, connections, unity

But he has no influence over results either

If you believe you have the right people, you support them

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I'll let Michael Jezz from September last year answer that "I do acknowledge that Voss, Cook and Sayers have taken us from pathetic irrelevancy to competitiveness but question whether the pre-requisite urgency and desire exist to contend for a premiership".

So you were happy to note the improvement under Sayers last year. No consultants (or their culture) have been involved with the club since then.

It appears that you had Sayers in 2022 as a qualified success. 2023 as a failure. If we were to win our next 11 and the flag (granted unlikely) would you swing back to him being successful.?

If we win the last 11 games and go on to win the flag, then people who are critical will be more than happy to admit they were wrong...

Personally, if we win a flag I don't care how stupid that makes any of my past comments look... I'd be like, yeah I was a dick head for saying those things ah well... "learnings" #17

 

[Accidental genius]

Former ACCC chairman urges Carlton to stand down sayers….

Needs unlocking

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/former-accc-chairman-allan-fels-tells-carlton-to-stand-down-luke-sayers/news-story/6b16e32aa0b463f23bb15108f52a3b2d?amp&nk=29fa67e83d9d10421fbcfccef636a10d-1685480702

 

[jpfalvo]

I've always found it strange that people come on here claiming that they have contacts - the assumption here is that they therefore know more than us plain old supporters.

I note that your contacts told you that Fisher was playing last week.

You also state that your contacts told you that we had approached Hardwick 6 weeks ago - when we were 4th on the ladder and Hardwick had two years to go on his contract. Seems to be a regurgitation of something that Fev alluded to. Not sure as to whether you posted this 6 weeks ago or thought that it was too inflammatory at the time and thought it was better to keep it to yourself.

However what would I know, I'm just a poor old supporter without "contacts".

Got Pittonet 4yrs right from same source, as fisher, 24hrs before it went public....

I share what I get. But I can stop if thats the response

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[jpfalvo]

Mayhaps your sources are on the sauce
Somehow I doubt they exist though. I mean if you know so much you would have to be actually in the club and given the state of play you would be far too busy to be wasting time posting here.

Sharing what I am reliably told.

Ask the mods.

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[jpfalvo]

So you are saying 61 people out of a staff of 8000 had knowledge. So under 1%. Not sure that you are making as strong an argument that you believe that you are.

Once again he is entitled to the presumption of innocence. If he is found to have been a willing participant then he will have to stand down.

"No way he didn't know" is a declaration of guilt based on ????

Do you understand what is going on with PWC. This is huuge. Forget Carlton.

Sayers was CEO at the time, and came up via Tax. He has some issues to address. He can't claim be didnt know, when he should of....its how it works at that level

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[jpfalvo]

Many presidents, past or present are consultants, in one shape or form

Can't think of background that is more or less successful than another

Elliot No.
Collins No.
Smorgon No.
Pratt.No.
Sticks. No.
MLG No.
SAYER yes.

Most of them entrepreneurs/ self made with exception of Sayers and Sticks (though ran his own printing business - so small business owner)

Only Sayers is the career management consultant/ accountant

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[tarczonandjane]

Times are different to when Pratt was Chair. And Sayers can’t help but be distracted by what is going on.

I am happy to be more nuanced than some. I think to resign would be premature when there are no adverse findings and no clear understanding of his role in the PwC scandal. But I do think he should temporarily stand aside from the Presidential role at Carlton while all of this unfolds, particularly when he is likely to need to direct his attentions elsewhere.

 

[jpfalvo]

Times are different to when Pratt was Chair. And Sayers can’t help but be distracted by what is going on.

I am happy to be more nuanced than some. I think to resign would be premature when there are no adverse findings and no clear understanding of his role in the PwC scandal. But I do think he should temporarily stand aside from the Presidential role at Carlton while all of this unfolds, particularly when he is likely to need to direct his attentions elsewhere.

Resign or stand down temporarily. Either way, we neee a guy totally carlton focused now.

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[The Flying Doormat]

Sharing what I am reliably told.

Ask the mods.

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Please don't let the vitriol of a few spoil it for the majority. Most of us are happy for any snippets of information and understand whispers don't always become fact. Some here can't help themselves. We've seen other posters with good intel hounded off the forum in similar circumstances and this place is poorer for it.
Those on here that can't accept a rumour for what it is are in the wrong place.