Mega Thread Brett Ratten

[Claypigeon]

All goodpoints you make 40yr - save for this save for this...Every promise Ratts has made this year has been broken....

specifically - his boasting about Carlton 'depth' - no depth. His goal of being Top4 - ridiculous and always was as soon as Essendon pantzed us. His belief in certain players - eg Gibbs was suppossed to blow the competition away this year wasn't he?

A bad injury list is probably a good thing for us - brings us back to where we really are as a team - and also has given opportunity to prove just how poor some of teh players suppossed to fill for injuries really are..
Personally I am excited about the future for Carlton - I think thatRatten has finally realised thatteh honeymoon period is over - and maybe a lot of the players have as well.

Hard to have depth when it is also injured. .. Above 192cm only Bower, Hammer, Watto and Macca have been fit for the whole season and two of those are in development mode and Bower was supposed to be depth. .. It is our midfield depth that has been exposed but then they are turning that around (Ellard and McLean have been handy depth) and its the rebound from the F50 that is hurting us. .. It is not all roses outside the injuries but to dismiss the injuries is the other extreme. ..

 

[Peete]

Hard to have depth when it is also injured. .. Above 192cm only Bower, Hammer, Watto and Macca have been fit for the whole season and two of those are in development mode and Bower was supposed to be depth. .. It is our midfield depth that has been exposed but then they are turning that around (Ellard and McLean have been handy depth) and its the rebound from the F50 that is hurting us. .. It is not all roses outside the injuries but to dismiss the injuries is the other extreme. ..

I dont think anyone is dismissing injuries - my comments were pretty specific regarding what Ratten has said versus what has occured. Sure injuries have been terrible - but that is my point - no one has stepped upto fill void- which underliens exactly where we are as a Club - right now.

 

[Blue since 72]

Guys we were near full strength vs Essendon and also near full strength vs the saints. Don't forget the saints were missing fisher and McEvoy. Also against the crows the writing was well and truly on the wall before Murphy got injured that we wer going to get creamed.

The pies injury list is gigantic as has the eagles at times. Lets not forget the hawks last year who somehow nearly made the GF whilst being devasted by injuries.

The reality is of course injuries are an excuse but sides with great strucutures and gameplans can cover these issues better than us.

Fair enough, however we're accumulating injuries as the season wears on where as this is not the case (at least not at this point) with examples like the Eagles and Collingwood.

It is what it is but I would defy any other team in the comp to continue kicking arse every week if they had a similar number of injuries across all three lines to what we have right now. There will be a tipping point where you will have inconsistent performance if you have to keep going back to the well for new blood.

Our depth when all our players are fit is as good as anyone's but at some point a growing injury list will test everyone's depth, even the best.

Of course there are other reasons for our performances but people discounting the injuries as a non issue or excuse are dreaming and blaming it on a lack of depth is not right either.

There seems to be this unwritten law in Aussie rules that if you put forward injuries as a reason for losing you're soft or it's a cop out.

 

[KnobHead]

It was a pathetic article it ignored that the pies went from bottom to Grand Finals in a short period of time and if you look at those collingwood sides on paper they were terrible.

BRIB, r u saying that if we appoint Malthouse we will at least make the grand final next year - if not win the premiership, guaranteed, regardless of injuries?

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Momentum is hard for a coach to recover once it is lost.

Carlton were destined for top 4 and now injuries have killed that. Murph and Waite are killer blows to a side that was skin deep in elite midfielders and elite forwards. 2012 was dependent on Gibbs, Yarran and Robinson developing enough to help the class of our midfield. That has not happened with 2 of those guys. Leaves the mids light on. Everyone knows the lack of KP forwards issue.

Ratten has to re-purpose the side with a lesser agenda of just trying to make the 8. Hard to do when you thought you were in the mix of winning the flag only 4 weeks back.

So injuries have killed Carlton in 2012, not Ratten. His test now comes with how he recommits his players to a secondary goal and develops players from here on out. For a pass mark all he needs to ensure is that the players fight hard to the best of the ability..that does not mean win games.

Our lack of 100% fit talls has continued to undermine Rattens plans for a flag. Jamison is being held back by some ailment or lack of confidence. Waite is now officially in the sick note category. Hammer needs 1-3 more years development before you could count on him week in week out. Our young KPP talls are not ready or injured. Basically leaves Hendo and hopefully Jamo.

 

[multigrain]

Just need to look at the teams that showed patience in their coaches versus the teams that chop and change at the whims of impatient fans. ..

In round 3 we were on top of the world; a few rounds later we were looking down the barrel of top spot; then the horror month started; and now only a month after a run of poor form and shocking injuries the impatience of some is shining through. ..

Premierships are not won in June and we're still a youthful side. .. Just because people got puffed up on the possibilities this year and then deflated by the outcomes they want to pass on that hurt. ..

Ratten bleeds Carlton, he would be hurting and it is time the boys stood up for him. .. Given the injuries that might not be enough to win ATM but it will show we have heart for the contest and can turn things around once the personnel get back. ..

I do agree with your last paragraph in particular. It does annoy me though how people are so precious about this situation (not saying this in relation to Claypigeons post). I'm sorry but my allegiances are with the Carton Football Club not Ratten. Ofcourse I respect Ratten and believe that he'll most likely be our coach again next year, but we'd be crazy not to consider Malthouse as much as it pains me to say. One of the greatest coaches of all time just sitting there, fresh from a 2010 premiership. So before people go shooting down supporters for looking elsewhere, think of the facts. As I've said before, Ratten does not deserve to be sacked, but if the board reckons there's someone better out there he should be sacked regardless.

 

[lenny20]

The injury argument absolutely holds water. The Eagles have lost just 3 key players to long term injury so far this year and really only 2 of those would be considered keys (Kennedy and Lecras), and all from the same part of the ground. We have lost key players for long periods from all 3 areas. The Eagles midfield and backline has been pretty much intact all season. Plus they were smashed by the Bombers and beaten by the Lions.

They are not some super team that has had to deal with a massive call on their depth and shone through.

And who at Collingwood apart from Ball and Krakouer has been out with a long term injury that are a key part of the line-up?

Two weeks ago we took a team to Adelaide missing Ball, Krakouer, Johnson, Swan, Macaffer, Tarrant, Brown, Reid and lost Keeffe during the game, I'd say that's a pretty good example of a massive call on our depth and shining through. Week before that we got Geelong with the same injury list sans Keeffe. Current list you can remove Swan and Brown but add Pendlebury, Toovey and Shaw.

So right now our depth is working for us but it's only working because it was given a chance to play at AFL level, thanks to the aforementioned injuries. Conversely, our depth players looked like garbage for the first three weeks of the year, culminating in you lot kicking us off the park in round three. But with time, they've picked up the pace well and improved game to game, and I think you'll soon find the same thing at Carlton, as Watson, Bootsma, Collins and co start to lift their output, as I thought all three did tonight.

 

[Malifice]

Difference is anyone who watches carlton closely week in week can see we completely lack structure, rarely fight back when behind and realise our coach is c grade on a good day.

You saying Robert Walls doesnt watch Carlton closely each week?

Its what he gets paid to do FFS.

There is also the fact he played the game, and once Coached our side as well.

Clearly doesnt know what he's talking about.

 

[the buzz]

Stopping other teams coming out of defense- our zone is far too easily penetrated, at what stage does the coach say 'man up'? It happened continually and must have been frustrating for our backs.

 

[T2B_]

Thought Ratten did pretty alright last night with what he had to work with.

Warnock going down IMO hurt us a lot but that's hardly the coaches fault.

 

[Moody Blue]

I think we'll finish 9th or 10th this year. Ratten will coach out next year, but it might help if he gets Malthouse or Roos to be an assistant or head of Footy Operations like the Bummers did with Bomber Thompson.

I don't think it would be wise to anoint Malthouse as a head coach, I just feel he might be a bit burnt out, and it reminds me too much of when we poached Pagan and thought he would solve all our problems when we had no players...

Pagan had two years where he basically coached a suburban team, primarily because the committee refused to make drastic changes to the playing list after the 1999 loss.It was not until year 3 that he could finally start picking quality players and by then it was too late and we were nearly broke. People forget Ratten was coaching Norwood in the 2nd Division of the EDFL for two seasons and then returned to Carlton as an assistant! Pagan was sacked. We had no money, few options and Ratts as a former great seemed like a good fit....an interim coach. Somehow he just got the gig because we made the finals.Despite our poor finals record his tenure was extended.
This is where I question the off field decision making. Did anyone seriously ask if he was the one to take the Blues to the next level? If so how? Look at the pedigree of Sanderson, Longmire, McCartney all very experienced assistants been around a long time. Look at the pedigree of Voss, Ratten and Neeld and you see the similiarities and same mistakes being made by rookie coaches. Hird was the exception but Essendon spent a lot of money to get Bomber Thompson to assist him and it has worked brilliantly.
Ratten has 2.5 years to go and a payout would be expensive when you consider what a new coach would have to be paid. Sticks loved Ratten; after all they played in a premiership together.
Some real hard calls need to be made. I keep hearing about what a great operator Swann is; well maybe it is time he started earning some of that 900K per year he is earning and start showing some leadership. If Malthouse is not signed by years end then he will be out of touch if he stands out for another 12 months. Our list needs work, we need a new game plan and some of the players need to be reminded that some of them are playing for the careers.
With the Bye: Collingwood going away to train, analyse, bonding.Carlton having 6 days off. Tells you a lot about each clubs respective mind set.

 

[mike ockerts]

Pagan had two years where he basically coached a suburban team, primarily because the committee refused to make drastic changes to the playing list after the 1999 loss.It was not until year 3 that he could finally start picking quality players and by then it was too late and we were nearly broke. People forget Ratten was coaching Norwood in the 2nd Division of the EDFL for two seasons and then returned to Carlton as an assistant! Pagan was sacked. We had no money, few options and Ratts as a former great seemed like a good fit....an interim coach. Somehow he just got the gig because we made the finals.Despite our poor finals record his tenure was extended.
This is where I question the off field decision making. Did anyone seriously ask if he was the one to take the Blues to the next level? If so how? Look at the pedigree of Sanderson, Longmire, McCartney all very experienced assistants been around a long time. Look at the pedigree of Voss, Ratten and Neeld and you see the similiarities and same mistakes being made by rookie coaches. Hird was the exception but Essendon spent a lot of money to get Bomber Thompson to assist him and it has worked brilliantly.
Ratten has 2.5 years to go and a payout would be expensive when you consider what a new coach would have to be paid. Sticks loved Ratten; after all they played in a premiership together.
Some real hard calls need to be made. I keep hearing about what a great operator Swann is; well maybe it is time he started earning some of that 900K per year he is earning and start showing some leadership. If Malthouse is not signed by years end then he will be out of touch if he stands out for another 12 months. Our list needs work, we need a new game plan and some of the players need to be reminded that some of them are playing for the careers.
With the Bye: Collingwood going away to train, analyse, bonding.Carlton having 6 days off. Tells you a lot about each clubs respective mind set.

Ummm wasn't Ratten an assistant at Melbourne and highly respected by the players and club? Not having a go fella, you just have Ratts coaching experience as just coaching a second division side was all.

 

[rampar]

Can't stand watching him stuff his face full of snakes. Hate it when he pumps up his players in the media before they have had a game (gibbs, walker) and coaching from the bench is just wrong.

Oh and the word 'brilliant' is used far too easily.

 

[Moody Blue]

Ummm wasn't Ratten an assistant at Melbourne and highly respected by the players and club? Not having a go fella, you just have Ratts coaching experience as just coaching a second division side was all.

One year as an assistant at Melbourne (not sure what he learned at that dysfunctional place) and then two at Norwood. i would not call it extensive.
After retirement from playing, Ratten spent one year as an assistant coach at the Melbourne Demons, before leaving to take a head coaching role at the Norwood Football Club in the Eastern Football League's Second Division. He coached there for two seasons.
Ratten returned to Carlton as an assistant coach for the 2007 season. On 24 July 2007, senior coach Denis Pagan was sacked, and Ratten was appointed as caretaker coach for the remainder of the season. On 20 August 2007 he signed a contract as Carlton senior coach until the end of 2009.

 

[timbertron]

Do people even think before they write.

Imagine you are a salesman and there are 40 products in your range and you are set a target but then told you are not going to be allowed to sell the 10 best selling lines, you have to hit your target without them or sack you if you cant.

Or you are a surgeon and told you will be sacked if another patient dies, no matter what he dies of even if unrelated to the surgury you performed oh and by the way, you cant use the 10 most used surgery implements including scalpels and tweezers, they are for sissies.

What next, he has to coach blindfolded?

It just keeps getting worse. Where do we find them?

The irony of your post is quite amusing.

So basically the team can play with no heart and no guts and get smashed but 10 goals to rubbish teams like Port and you're happy to sit back and say it's ok because we have injuries.

Tragic.

 

[crane6]

lf don't finish top 4 Ratten won't coach next year.

 

[The Coach]

Two weeks ago we took a team to Adelaide missing Ball, Krakouer, Johnson, Swan, Macaffer, Tarrant, Brown, Reid and lost Keeffe during the game, I'd say that's a pretty good example of a massive call on our depth and shining through. Week before that we got Geelong with the same injury list sans Keeffe. Current list you can remove Swan and Brown but add Pendlebury, Toovey and Shaw.

So right now our depth is working for us but it's only working because it was given a chance to play at AFL level, thanks to the aforementioned injuries. Conversely, our depth players looked like garbage for the first three weeks of the year, culminating in you lot kicking us off the park in round three. But with time, they've picked up the pace well and improved game to game, and I think you'll soon find the same thing at Carlton, as Watson, Bootsma, Collins and co start to lift their output, as I thought all three did tonight.

I never saw that game - knew you had inuries but that is an impresseive win without that lot as they were bloody goood against us

 

[timbertron]

I watched the last quarter of the 99 prelim last night and it highlighted our only hope this year. If we can finish in the 8 somewhere but get a healthy list we could play our best footy in september.

It's a real stretch but thats what the Blues did in 99 and the Crows in 98. We've shown we can play premiership footy we just need to pull it all together in the month that matters. But it's a long shot for sure.

I think Rattan will be judged on performance rather than results this year.

 

[mike ockerts]

One thing I'm sure Brett has said to himself after he came out and said, we are going play some players that may not be ready, but If we put 6 7 8 games into them, they will be ready.
Is that he would of realzed that trying things (even though his hand may of been forced more than anything with injury) doesn't mean disaster or seen as to risky, and as such, playing favorites just for the sake of playing them, that maybe, just maybe there is a better option running around right under your nose playing in the magoos, and he may not be setting the world on fire either, but you bite the bullet and say stuff it, I'm giving this kid a go, by mixing it up a bit and leaving no stone unturned, and what you find are gems that could come on quicker than you had planned for.

 

[Mr.X]

It's been a rough few weeks, and I guess it's expected Brett will come under scruitiny.

Ultimately, accountability falls with the coach. Top 4 was expected this year, anything less will be a failure

We're all clear on what needs to happen if Blues fall short of Top 4

 

[mediumsizered]

lf don't finish top 4 Ratten won't coach next year.

Given you are generally on the money (along with ericpascoe), what you are therefore saying is that Ratts is gone after this season, because we won't be making the Top 4 now. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on who would get the gig, or who is in the running to get the gig next year, if this comes to pass.

 

[PP34]

When is Ratten going to wake up and realise that our top four hopes went down the drain ages ago?

Now he's talking about the team like we're a bloody young team trying to improve every week. Hilarious.

 

[crane6]

Malthouse is availabe.Don't think we will go for untried coach,Roos won't coach again.

 

[mediumsizered]

Malthouse is availabe.Don't think we will go for untried coach,Roos won't coach again.

I'm not sold on Malthouse.

He coached a very good Footscray team for 6 years without success, in the process burning one of their most talented players. He then coached a virtual WA state of origin team for 10 seasons, finishing up with 2 premierships (the chances are Worsfold will end up with at least 2 premierships at the Eagles, with a bit less talent than Malthouse had) & then he coached at a club where money was no object to achieving the ultimate success. Despite having access to massive Football Department spending, quality training facilities, unlimited development spending etc, his return was 1 premiership in 12 seasons (& a slightly different bounce of the ball could have meant no premierships at all).

Our club is potentially a couple of players away from challenging for a premiership (forget what has happened over the last 4-6 weeks, we are better than that) & I'm not convinced it will only happen with Malthouse coaching the team.

 

[Peete]

Last nights game proved one thing - the players are at fault much more than the Coach. We fix two things over the remainder of the season and 2013 is a different year altogether - ah and forget desert warrior training BS too.

1. Get rid of the players who have failed us this year - play the younger kid in at every opportunity - Watson/Bootsma/Collins/ and any tall who gets over their chronic ****ing injury - which has deprived us of ANY options whatsoever as far as FF goes. *and use our money to buy /trade one tall and one hard midfielder
2. Get the full list fit and bigger

I am over the misery - the remainder of the year is about getting a list together than compete for a full year's campaign and then another three after that.

Oh yeah - Lets get Ratts a list that he can work with and who are keen to wear the Navy Blue - get rid of proven losers.