Brian Lara, How Good Was He?

[Spitta Andretti]

Well that isn't how you said it though.

My mistake.

 

[JimDocker]

For me;

Ponting - had the best run of peak form.

Tendulka - had the best overall career.

Lara - had the highest peak of the 3; on his day, he was just beautiful to watch.

I like this a lot. Sums up the 3 greats of the era similar to the way that I think of them.

 

[Browney2006]

People forget to factor in that Lara had to carry a very weak side and didnt have the support around him like tendulkar and ponting did, which as batsman is huge. Can you imagine if Lara played in the australia team during the period that ponting did? He would have been averaging 70 on those aussie wickets with the support of one of the best teams of all time around him.

 

[medusala]

medusala Meds is a big Border and Billy the Kid Brereton fan

Its sacrilege to even mention a cart puller like Clarke in the same sentence as Border. Locals in the West Indies still talk about his efforts in 1984 just after Chappell, Lillee and Marsh retired. Tulloch like performance, especially his efforts in Trinidad.

Had to face better pace attacks, very average team mates, team disharmony in early days, longer boundaries, rampant cheating by certain countries away from home etc

Brereton was very good and amusing but not a deity like AB.

AB is my all time hero

Reminds me of this story.

CHRISTIAN VIERI is a quiet man who usually lets his goals do his talking but there was not a moment's hesitation when he was asked which player he idolised as a boy.

'Allan Border,' he told the scrum of French journalists seeking an insight into the character of the Italian striker they fear will blast them out of the World Cup here this afternoon.

Allan who?
......

re Lara, McGrath wasn't bad at bowling to him

 

[Hellgood]

Based on having seen a lot of Sachin and being very skeptical anybody could be much better than him. Even slightly better is a hard sell. Bear in mind I am only talking about post-90s players. So I can't believe that Lara was miles better than him just because he flayed Australia on a number of occasions, whereas Sachin scored hundreds against Australia in a less destructive manner and didn't get too many double tons. Mind, he was plenty destructive against Australia in ODI cricket, far more so than Lara. Think of the Sharjah hundreds and the 175 in a failed chase of 350.

Ponting too, I disagree when people say Lara was much better.

If pounding Australia is the barometer of success then VVS Laxman is the best batsman of his time, Flintoff the best all rounder and Swann the best spinner. It's just a ridiculous way to assess who's the greatest. I'm not saying anybody here rates Lara just because of that, this idea that Lara is the best by daylight comes from other Australian websites and is an opinion informed solely by Lara's performance against Australia.

Don't know of the stats but Lara was prolific against a lot more teams than Australia. English bowlers of the 90's and 00's still have nightmares and as posted earlier the Pakistani's didn't exactly enjoy bolwing to him either.

 

[Doss]

Off the top of my head, of the top teams I reckon Lara's record was actually weakest against New Zealand.

 

[crownie]

Kallis...yeah his stats are very impressive but sport is more then stats just like some AFL players can turn a game with less touches then others who need to touch the ball more to have the same impact.

Lara, Ponting and Tendulkar just had the extra something special about them that he didn't.

seems to be a popular opinion as well.

 

[bombersfan4000]

Kallis...yeah his stats are very impressive but sport is more then stats just like some AFL players can turn a game with less touches then others who need to touch the ball more to have the same impact.

Lara, Ponting and Tendulkar just had the extra something special about them that he didn't.

seems to be a popular opinion as well.

Out of Lara, pointing and tendulkar, Lara at his best was untouchable

 

[MinerBoy]

I could watch Lara flay the Aussies all day. I'd get bored watching Sachin bat all day.

 

[JimDocker]

I could watch Lara flay the Aussies all day. I'd get bored watching Sachin bat all day.

I can understand somebody wanting to watch Lara more, but that is a tough call on Sachin.

 

[Doss]

Yeah I don't know if I'd get bored Sachin, that's a bit far. He wasn't as interesting to watch as Lara though, I agree.

Laxman was more aesthetically pleasing than Sachin, I reckon. Sehwag was entertaining but in a more brutal, agricultural way that wasn't anywhere near as pleasurable to watch.

 

[MinerBoy]

Yeah agree with you both. Sachin was just very solid so a little harsh to say boring but he just didn't generate excitement in watching him.

I appreciated the quality of what he was doing but would much rather watch Lara and has Doss mentioned, a number of his Indian teammates too.

 

[Super Hans]

Do people think the teams Lara played with were that bad? I mean, obviously it was nowhere near as good as what Punter and Sachin had, but the Windies had some decent batsman.

Chanderpaul was a gun. We all know what Gayle was like (I think he is pretty underrated as a test batsman), Sarwan was pretty mint for a while. They were all around for the second part of his career. Nothing special, but he wasn't carrying around a batting lineup like the Windies currently have.

 

[Doss]

Do people think the teams Lara played with were that bad? I mean, obviously it was nowhere near as good as what Punter and Sachin had, but the Windies had some decent batsman.

Chanderpaul was a gun. We all know what Gayle was like (I think he is pretty underrated as a test batsman), Sarwan was pretty mint for a while. They were all around for the second part of his career. Nothing special, but he wasn't carrying around a batting lineup like the Windies currently have.

Chanderpaul and Sarwan got to the best part of their careers after Lara retired, though.

The other problem was that they rarely all produced at the same time.

On one of the rare occasions they did, they chased down 418 against us.

 

[Super Hans]

Chanderpaul and Sarwan got to the best part of their careers after Lara retired, though.

The other problem was that they rarely all produced at the same time.

On one of the rare occasions they did, they chased down 418 against us.

They were still decent, though. Consistency was an issue, but I reckon they had a decent batting lineup. Was better than what NZ and England (at times) had.

I just think if you're reading this thread being a younger person, having not seen any of his career the 'carrying a shocking batting line up' gets a bit overplayed. I'm not saying he didn't carry them, but he wasn't batting with a bunch of bunnies. There were crap players in that lineup (how Wavell Hinds played 45 tests I'll never know) but nothing like today.

 

[Doss]

They were still decent, though. Consistency was an issue, but I reckon they had a decent batting lineup. Was better than what NZ and England (at times) had.

I just think if you're reading this thread being a younger person, having not seen any of his career the 'carrying a shocking batting line up' gets a bit overplayed. I'm not saying he didn't carry them, but he wasn't batting with a bunch of bunnies. There were crap players in that lineup (how Wavell Hinds played 45 tests I'll never know) but nothing like today.

The issue was temperament as well. Chanderpaul could knuckle down with the best of them but even at their peak, rarely did Gayle or Sarwan.

 

[gbatman]

He was a silky skilful player who was great to watch, I see some similarities in Usman Khawaja. Really punished bowlers who got their length wrong, great array of shots.

 

[Shane Sheridan]

He was a silky skilful player who was great to watch, I see some similarities in Usman Khawaja. Really punished bowlers who got their length wrong, great array of shots.

You wearing beer goggles?

 

[Shiv]

He was a silky skilful player who was great to watch, I see some similarities in Usman Khawaja. Really punished bowlers who got their length wrong, great array of shots.

Please don't ever mention Khawaja and Lara in the same sentence...

 

[franjon]

Lara - had the highest peak of the 3; on his day, he was just beautiful to watch.

And unstoppable once he got going. Similar to Sobers - as Adelaide Hawk mentioned breaking his record. I'd still have Garry as the better cricketer. McGrath got him a number of times as fantastic bowlers often do, but on his day, he couldn't be removed. I think his off days were more upstairs than his ability.

 

[franjon]

Do people think the teams Lara played with were that bad? I mean, obviously it was nowhere near as good as what Punter and Sachin had, but the Windies had some decent batsman.

Chanderpaul was a gun. We all know what Gayle was like (I think he is pretty underrated as a test batsman), Sarwan was pretty mint for a while. They were all around for the second part of his career. Nothing special, but he wasn't carrying around a batting lineup like the Windies currently have.

In a way, I agree. When Lara started you still had Richards, Greenidge, Dujon, Logie, Haynes, Ambrose, Walsh, Patterson, Marshall, Richardson but they were coming to the end of it, minus Ambrose and Walsh. Chanderpaul I'll give you, Sarwan not in the same league.

 

[Doss]

Lara never played a Test with Richards, and only played a couple with Greenidge and Dujon.

There was actually a very neat pattern of the quad of bats the Windies had that could be considered truly great in terms of their careers just missing out on intersecting properly:

George Headley finished in 1954 (really a few years prior, but he did play one Test in 1954), just as Sobers was appearing.
Sobers finished in 1974, just a tick before Richards appeared.
Richards finished in 1991, just as Lara was appearing.
Lara finished in 2007...seceded by no one in the same class.

 

[Shane Sheridan]

Lara never played a Test with Richards, and only played a couple with Greenidge and Dujon.

There was actually a very neat pattern of the quad of bats the Windies had that could be considered truly great in terms of their careers just missing out on intersecting properly:

George Headley finished in 1954 (really a few years prior, but he did play one Test in 1954), just as Sobers was appearing.
Sobers finished in 1974, just a tick before Richards appeared.
Richards finished in 1991, just as Lara was appearing.
Lara finished in 2007...seceded by no one in the same class.

Re the Headley era, do you not consider Weeekes and Walcott as greats?

 

[Doss]

Re the Headley era, do you not consider Weeekes and Walcott as greats?

They're certainly in the conversation as far as that goes, yes.

If you include them as greats, then just eliminate the Headley/Sobers bit at the start.

 

[franjon]

Lara never played a Test with Richards, and only played a couple with Greenidge and Dujon.

There was actually a very neat pattern of the quad of bats the Windies had that could be considered truly great in terms of their careers just missing out on intersecting properly:

George Headley finished in 1954 (really a few years prior, but he did play one Test in 1954), just as Sobers was appearing.
Sobers finished in 1974, just a tick before Richards appeared.
Richards finished in 1991, just as Lara was appearing.
Lara finished in 2007...seceded by no one in the same class.

Yeah I wasn't talking about who played with you, just that those guys were still around.