Brisbane needs help

[Rod Stroker]

But it's not like they were near the top when they started the COLA. Unlike now with Sydney. Who did Brisbane recruit utilising the cola?
They recruited and developed well

It's not who they recruited, it's that they were given extra money to help retain their good players. It was still an advantage.

 

[Roylion]

If Brisbane has 90% of their list from interstate, it means the game is not mature enough in its area to be able to source local players.

That may be so.

I still find it quite remarkable that the other three clubs in developing markets have salary cap bonuses to deal with player retention (under various names such as "COLA") and Brisbane does not.

Telling really, about the artificial success and situation the AFL has created.

In the short term, most probably.

My point is that Brisbane operate under certain restricted circumstances that other clubs have the ability to circumvent or alleviate.

 

[leeo]

So what? It's a sporting competition, shit happens. Why should one club have ridiculous advantages that other clubs don't have access to? Where else in the world does this take place?

So when other club are disadvantaged, 'shit happens' but when the club gets advantages to attempt to make up for the inequity you put on this whole song and dance, right...

 

[Crawb]

It's not who they recruited, it's that they were given extra money to help retain their good players. It was still an advantage.

The extra money was help to re-address an inequality (which was caused by our geographical location relative to where AFL-level talent is traditionally found). We had extra money to give us a level playing field, not give us an advantage. Fact, Indisputable fact.

 

[leeo]

The go home factor is such a wank.

Look at the star players we've lost in recent years. Ball, Dal Santo & Goodard (all from Vic) left and Lenny (NSW) & Roo (Qld) stayed.

I'm sure there would be plenty of Qld kids who'd love the opportunity in Melbourne. Likewise I'm sure there's plenty of kids in Vic who'd be happy to be drafted to a team in SEQ.

Probably should of considered at where Ball (collingwood), Dal Santo (Kangaroos) and Goodard (essendon) ending up resettling before using that argument.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Perhaps it's time to bring the Lions home before they become a sporting Roanoke.

 

[Rod Stroker]

The extra money was help to re-address an inequality (which was caused by our geographical location relative to where AFL-level talent is traditionally found). We had extra money to give us a level playing field, not give us an advantage. Fact, Indisputable fact.

Brisbane crap
Retention money given
Nek Minnit - 4 GF's for 3 consecutive flags
Retention money gone
Brisbane crap

Yep, indisputable fact

 

[pulpdriver]

We need to get back to a position where we can stand on our own feet. The things preventing us from that are

1) Clueless, self serving administration apathetic about the interests of the club
2) Financially barren
3) Inadequate training facilities that annually cost us a fortune
4) Lack of on field success in the last decade

We should've been afforded the right to remove Angus and any affiliates from SLC last year. When June 30 passes and the Lions at Springfield begins to look increasingly impossible hopefully Sharpless and co piss off. Bringing in Swann will help. He's had no experience with frontier clubs but can't deny he's been able to turn around clubs.

With a new CEO and board next phase will be to get us financially stable. First step has to be get us out of the Gabba contract and into satisfactory League standard facilities. No idea where this will be. The club hasn't explored options outside Springfield due to the financial interests of the board. Burpengary was raised but rejected. If these facilities could actually be in Brisbane it would be great but as the thread on the Lions board reveals there are numerous factors as to why this may not be feasible.

When we have an admin working for best interests of the club, stop bleeding money and provide our players with a better environment and get more games into kids the last problem should start to be rectified. I don't think we're in as bad a state on field as some have suggested. No doubt we lack depth, need a key forward and another A grade midfield but it's likely we get the forward this year in the draft, create depth with more experienced youngsters and can actually attract another A grade mid when we start winning games and aren't a mess off field.

When we start winning games again and don't have debt hanging over our head membership should rise (something which will always be difficult to maintain in the fickle QLD market) and we can move towards stability. We've been poorly run for years. If the AFL is to help us they should help us get the wrong people out, the right people in and perhaps some additional short term funding to aid us in doing that.

 

[brisbane13]

Our admin is terrible, all our fans have known it for years. Instead of properly resolving it last year, the AFL forced us with Sharpless and we're no better off. We don't have have a CEO either.

We've made one finals series in the last 10 years and we don't look going vaguely close any time soon. Even Melbourne have made more in this period of time. The AFL left us out in the cold for years not realising the challenges we have to face compared to every other club. To their credit the lads at AFL House in the last few months have gone - "oh shit" and started to realise the extent they left us out in the cold. But despite this the AFL have only ever seemed bothered with GC/GWS/Sydney and they won't bother helping us out until GC/GWS win a flag sadly.

do the members have any powers to vote sharpless off the board.

 

[scoman]

It's not who they recruited, it's that they were given extra money to help retain their good players. It was still an advantage.

I see

Now I know why Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn haven't been able to retain their players during their glory years.

 

[pulpdriver]

do the members have any powers to vote sharpless off the board.

Theoretically, yes. Last year we raised all the necessary votes to call an EGM to select a new chairman. Then the AFL stepped in and threatened to withhold funding if that happened. A compromise was met between the existing faction and the contending and we ended up with Angus Johnson's business partner and virtually no change.

 

[Roylion]

It's not who they recruited, it's that they were given extra money to help retain their good players. It was still an advantage.

The money was paid out of Brisbane's own coffers. And it was to redress a disadvantage.

To retain a proportion of good players and therefore be competitive, Brisbane had to pay over the odds to a greater proportion of their list than other clubs. This was because of the club's location in a developing market (a non football state). There was an inability of the local leagues to produce enough AFL standard players to maintain competitiveness with those located in football states.

Brisbane and Sydney had to recruit a far greater proportion of interstate players to be competitive. As such retaining them was always going to be more difficult than clubs that had 60-70% of their list from their home state. Hence the allowance. At its height, Brisbane received an extra $800,000. Sydney received an extra $1.2 million (15% of the salary cap).

Currently the Swans receive a $900,000 bonus (9.8%) of the salary cap and that is being paid by the AFL, not the Sydney Swans.

Source

 

[MacMum]

As I posted a page or two back, the members rights were shafted.......we wanted an EGM.....a lot of people worked hard to get the process going, it was all organized, then the AFL stepped in and stopped it..

..as a result nothing has changed..

We as a club, are being ran by incompetent self serving individuals.....until that changes, nothing will change for the Lions.

A stable administration goes a long way to building a strong club......we don't have that unfortunately.

The AFL refused to listen to the members.........and without members, no club.

It becomes a vicious circle.

 

[brisbane13]

It's not who they recruited, it's that they were given extra money to help retain their good players. It was still an advantage.

what the lions recieved was totaly the same as what the swans are getting currently but under a different name. whilst sydney cost of living is more expensive, if you want to live in a house/ apartment with beach front views, but for every one else it isn't much more expensive living out in the suburbs like rest of the 98% of the population living in Sydney.

the lions problem is only a small percentage of their players are from the local areas, being as far out at the gold coast or sunny coasts, let alone from the state of QLD. so the biggest problem will always be for the lions will be holding on to players, being away from family. the city of brisbane isn't the most flash of places either with many players choosing to live up on the sunshine coast or Gold coast out of the city.
COLA for the swans needs to be scrapped like the lions allowance was, because it has shown that it does create a gap in teams favoring the teams that have the extra money in their salary cap. But another system put in place, that would be regulated by the AFL extra money payed to kids, or lower payed players earning x amount, with a cut off level.

 

[GumbyRules]

We also need all third party deals to be included in the cap. This would make the competition more even.

 

[Crawb]

Brisbane crap
Retention money given
Nek Minnit - 4 GF's for 3 consecutive flags
Retention money gone
Brisbane crap

Yep, indisputable fact

Yep, those initial years after the glory had nothing to do with an attempted rebuilding phase or anything.

 

[master bate]

The money was paid out of Brisbane's own coffers. And it was to redress a disadvantage.

To retain a proportion of good players and therefore be competitive, Brisbane had to pay over the odds to a greater proportion of their list than other clubs. This was because of the club's location in a developing market (a non football state). There was an inability of the local leagues to produce enough AFL standard players to maintain competitiveness with those located in football states.

Brisbane and Sydney had to recruit a far greater proportion of interstate players to be competitive. As such retaining them was always going to be more difficult than clubs that had 60-70% of their list from their home state. Hence the allowance. At its height, Brisbane received an extra $800,000. Sydney received an extra $1.2 million (15% of the salary cap).

Currently the Swans receive a $900,000 bonus (9.8%) of the salary cap and that is being paid by the AFL, not the Sydney Swans.

Source

Where is the evidence that money has any significant factor in players staying? Surely players stay due to circumstance not due to an extra 10% of money. I know you had guys leave due to money after your screwed your salary cap with Fev. But none of the 5 last year left for money did they? I seriously doubt 10% extra on the contract would've kept any of them. I'm sure you could've fit them all in under the cap on the deals they signed with their new teams.

All first and second draft picks should sign 3 year deals with the 3rd year as a club option not 2 year deals, that would be one way to help. Or even 4 year deals for first round picks.

But Brisbane should get a lot of benefits that Sydney have. It's a liveable city, it's cheaper than Melb and Sydney. It's away from the footy hype. It's warm in winter. The players aren't chased by media and hassled in the street, they can go to pubs and bars and have a meal and a drink without getting flogs approaching them every 5 minutes like guys in Victoria. Beaches. Surfing. Playing in front of pretty decent home crowds and reasonable atmosphere at a good home ground in the Gabba. The chance to become the franchise player in a whole state (tell me Jono Brown doesn't dominate Queensland media at times compared to Nick Riewoldt or Boomer Harvey - the dominant players at small Victorian clubs).

None of those advantages are ever mentioned by Brisbane supporters when discussing the disadvantages of having an interstate playing list.

It might not of helped but removing the extra salary cap money didn't turn Brisbane from a triple premiership team to a bottom side on the field and a basketcase off the field. So it certainly shouldn't be the first thing to come back. Fix the bank balance, fix the facilities, get footy administrators in who will recognise good coaching and recruiting and have the ability to stock those departments (and looks like the recruiting has been good for a while). Once that happens then let's wait for a few years and if Brisbane are still leaking players then maybe you have a point. I just don't see having an interstate playing group as an inequity that can't be overcome. I think it's a small challenge that as long as you are well run it's no problem at all.

 

[leeloo]

The question seems to be that if Brisbane had been properly managed after their successful era, would they still be in the same position they are now?

Brisbane supporters seem to think by paying players extra, they are suddenly going to have good players stay. I'm not so sure.

 

[brisbane13]

We need to get back to a position where we can stand on our own feet. The things preventing us from that are

1) Clueless, self serving administration apathetic about the interests of the club
2) Financially barren
3) Inadequate training facilities that annually cost us a fortune
4) Lack of on field success in the last decade

We should've been afforded the right to remove Angus and any affiliates from SLC last year. When June 30 passes and the Lions at Springfield begins to look increasingly impossible hopefully Sharpless and co piss off. Bringing in Swann will help. He's had no experience with frontier clubs but can't deny he's been able to turn around clubs.

With a new CEO and board next phase will be to get us financially stable. First step has to be get us out of the Gabba contract and into satisfactory League standard facilities. No idea where this will be. The club hasn't explored options outside Springfield due to the financial interests of the board. Burpengary was raised but rejected. If these facilities could actually be in Brisbane it would be great but as the thread on the Lions board reveals there are numerous factors as to why this may not be feasible.

When we have an admin working for best interests of the club, stop bleeding money and provide our players with a better environment and get more games into kids the last problem should start to be rectified. I don't think we're in as bad a state on field as some have suggested. No doubt we lack depth, need a key forward and another A grade midfield but it's likely we get the forward this year in the draft, create depth with more experienced youngsters and can actually attract another A grade mid when we start winning games and aren't a mess off field.

When we start winning games again and don't have debt hanging over our head membership should rise (something which will always be difficult to maintain in the fickle QLD market) and we can move towards stability. We've been poorly run for years. If the AFL is to help us they should help us get the wrong people out, the right people in and perhaps some additional short term funding to aid us in doing that.

is there any other areas in brisbane that could house the lions or even where the lions could build some facilities?
is leaving the GABBA a must, it is owned by the QLD government , a better agreement is a good possibility?
the Burpengary proposal was turned down by the current board, doe to personal interest of its members. but aside from being out of brisbane, the burpengary idea isn't such a bad one as most of the facilities are already there recently built. the local council is willing to put up to another 10 million in to the facilities and possibly another 5million from the AFL

yet sharpless & co, have just ignored it and still trying to gain funding for his springfield idea, which old Abbott, has put a stop to & Campbell Newman is more interested giving money to the Broncos for their up grade facilities. who are to tight to dip in to their own trust funds & spend revenue from their poke filled leagues club.
sharpless is an idiot, as he owns a large chunk of the land out in springfield that is being developed and going to be developed over the years, has a bucket load of cash 580 million according to BRW, with his construction company BMD having a revenue of over 1 billion dollars. he would much rather keep destroying the lions for his own personal interest, without spending a cent of his own money, the faster the AFL takes over the lions & kicks the current board out couldn't happen sooner

 

[Damon_3388]

Brisbane crap
Retention money given
Nek Minnit - 4 GF's for 3 consecutive flags
Retention money gone
Brisbane crap

Yep, indisputable fact

It took about 8-10 years before they saw anything tangible like a premiership from that. Hardly "nek minute". Remember, the Lions were wooden spooners in 1998, just three years before their dynasty started.

The retention allowance was crucial, given the state of the Bears in the early '90s, and the consistent pattern of players either not wanting to go there (eg. Jarman brothers, Chris McDermott) when drafted, or wanting to leave as soon as they could (Nathan Buckley). It was considered a football wasteland, and the future of the game in QLD genuinely did depend upon their success or failure. Totally understandable that the AFL put measures in place to help them retain talent (particularly non-QLD talent), when that was one of the club's primary issues in their early years.

 

[pulpdriver]

is there any other areas in brisbane that could house the lions or even where the lions could build some facilities?
is leaving the GABBA a must, it is owned by the QLD government , a better agreement is a good possibility?
the Burpengary proposal was turned down by the current board, doe to personal interest of its members. but aside from being out of brisbane, the burpengary idea isn't such a bad one as most of the facilities are already there recently built. the local council is willing to put up to another 10 million in to the facilities and possibly another 5million from the AFL

yet sharpless & co, have just ignored it and still trying to gain funding for his springfield idea, which old Abbott, has put a stop to & Campbell Newman is more interested giving money to the Broncos for their up grade facilities. who are to tight to dip in to their own trust funds & spend revenue from their poke filled leagues club.
sharpless is an idiot, as he owns a large chunk of the land out in springfield that is being developed and going to be developed over the years, has a bucket load of cash 580 million according to BRW, with his construction company BMD having a revenue of over 1 billion dollars. he would much rather keep destroying the lions for his own personal interest, without spending a cent of his own money, the faster the AFL takes over the lions & kicks the current board out couldn't happen sooner

I don't see the problem with Burpengary but don't live in QLD so can't really comment. Seemed like a good solution to me. As for other options there is a thread on the Lions board which looks at all the current hurdles. Much more knowledgeable posters than me posting info there. But with certainty we must get out of the GABBA. Even a renegotiation is going to see us contributing towards substandard facilities.

 

[Damon_3388]

The question seems to be that if Brisbane had been properly managed after their successful era, would they still be in the same position they are now?

It does appear in hindsight that there was a lot of complacency, and a lot of poor decisions made in terms of drafting and player retention. I know there's only so much you can do without the plum draft picks, and you'd naturally try and maintain that premiership level for as long as you can, but their drafting and list management between 2001-2007 has really come back to hurt them over the past few years, because they've really had a lack of quality in that 24-29 year old range that should make up the meat of your side.

 

[ep2018]

I would happily sit through ten years of mediocrity if it meant we won three flags in a row.

 

[Rod Stroker]

It took about 8-10 years before they saw anything tangible like a premiership from that. Hardly "nek minute". Remember, the Lions were wooden spooners in 1998, just three years before their dynasty started.

The retention allowance was crucial, given the state of the Bears in the early '90s, and the consistent pattern of players either not wanting to go there (eg. Jarman brothers, Chris McDermott) when drafted, or wanting to leave as soon as they could (Nathan Buckley). It was considered a football wasteland, and the future of the game in QLD genuinely did depend upon their success or failure. Totally understandable that the AFL put measures in place to help them retain talent (particularly non-QLD talent), when that was one of the club's primary issues in their early years.

So you say that, yet they won 3 flags, but haven't made the finals in 9 years and struggle to get 20K to a game. So they were given the retention, had all the success, and now 10 years later are a basket case on and off the field. Sounds like a failure to me.

 

[Jobe]

No - This is how it all starts.
No more ****ing benefits, if you're a shit club pull yourself out the mess and earn that ****ing flag.

No more COLA - No more priority picks - No more sympathy