Brisbane needs help

[Vankri]

In this regard grass roots level in SEQ is quite big, for ex across Brisbane and the GC there are 30+ under 18 teams, and that is top of the pryamid at junior football, the support is there, just needs the AFL team ( Lions) at the top of the pyramid to get its act together.

I know, I actually have friends and the partner's family there. They've been telling me for years that there is a true support for the game in SEQ. GC makes sense as a new club but the team they are building on the back of concessions is looking scary. We'll see how it plays out once they've got their token flag(s) and the concessions are stripped, but I would back them to actually maintain a healthy supporter base and profit.

 

[Inspector Malceski]

Only Sydney, GWS and Gold Coast face the same problems as Brisbane in that regard. Sydney, GWS and Gold Coast all have salary cap bonuses and have had such for some years.

Brisbane is the only club in a developing market not to have any such bonus.

In order to get the allowance, you have to be not to good otherwise you will challenge the order of "Melbourne" club

in 2 of the 3 Lions premierships, the lions was outsiders in betting

Swans v Hawks in 2012, the swans was paying $3.30 rank outsiders, yet we won & "Melbourne" club chocked on their weeties!!

 

[Ron The Bear]

If you're not growing, you're going backwards.

It can't grow indefinitely. The AFL's cycle of spiralling costs is funded in large part by Melbourne crowds. It's simply not sustainable.

 

[Vankri]

I'd argue you have the short term view.

If the AFL isn't national, revenues will decrease. The other codes won't stand still, their revenues will grow. Player salaries in the AFL will decrease, while salaries in other codes will increase. The other codes will poach players from the AFL, and will establish grass roots support in AFL states. Over time, the AFL will be a local, parochial comp.

If you're not growing, you're going backwards.

50 years to build support? Until the Swans went to Sydney, you'd had 100 years, and as i said, there was zero grass roots support. You want the AFL to spend millions and millions trying to build a school age comp in the northern states over 50 years? It'll simply never work.

You're wrong. If the other codes don't expand into AFL territory, the AFL will have no issue maintaining their revenue, regardless of whether they conquer new market themselves or not. And the AFL IS a local, parochial comp on the international market, with close to zero chance of ever expanding into other countries. Is that such a bad thing? I don't think so.

Probably another debate, but the doctrine of constant growth is very questionable, and current trends in economics indicate the thinking around sustainable growth is changing.

 

[Inspector Malceski]

At no point in Brisbane's history has the club had anymore than 21% of its list from Queensland. In 2014 10% of the Lions' list is from Queensland.

we currently have 21% 8 out of 39 senior players from NSW

Also 3/6 rookie players

 

[JeffDunne]

In order to get the allowance, you have to be not to good otherwise you will challenge the order of "Melbourne" club

Well in fairness, I'm sure you'd be pissed too if people earning 7 figures & living with Harbour views were still receiving welfare?

 

[Demonheart]

Eddie yesterday has his targets set on the academies of Sydney and Brisbane i truly believe he doesn't want a interstate competition to succeed at all.

No, just because people want a competition that is fair and equal in terms of what is allowed to all clubs doesn't mean that they want clubs from the northern states to not succeed. That's the thing you lot don't understand.

 

[Roylion]

So?

I thought it would have been self explanatory.

Who has the easier job dealing with a 'go home factor'?

Carlton with 40% of its 2013 list from interstate? West Coast with 40% of its' 2013 list from interstate? Or Brisbane with 90% of its 2013 list from interstate?

 

[JeffDunne]

we currently have 21% 8 out of 39 senior players from NSW

Also 3/6 rookie players

The go home factor is such a wank.

Look at the star players we've lost in recent years. Ball, Dal Santo & Goodard (all from Vic) left and Lenny (NSW) & Roo (Qld) stayed.

I'm sure there would be plenty of Qld kids who'd love the opportunity in Melbourne. Likewise I'm sure there's plenty of kids in Vic who'd be happy to be drafted to a team in SEQ.

 

[Demonheart]

I'd argue you have the short term view.

If the AFL isn't national, revenues will decrease. The other codes won't stand still, their revenues will grow. Player salaries in the AFL will decrease, while salaries in other codes will increase. The other codes will poach players from the AFL, and will establish grass roots support in AFL states. Over time, the AFL will be a local, parochial comp.

If you're not growing, you're going backwards.

50 years to build support? Until the Swans went to Sydney, you'd had 100 years, and as i said, there was zero grass roots support. You want the AFL to spend millions and millions trying to build a school age comp in the northern states over 50 years? It'll simply never work.

Your argument is flawed. You're saying that if we don't grow the game across the country then we'll fall behind the other codes. Which code has a strong national presence? NRL sure as hell doesn't. How are they going to overtake the AFL?

This is a sporting competition where the clubs are meant to compete on an equal footing, that's what it's meant to be anyway. It stopped when the AFL manufactured Brisbane's success and they've been addicted to it ever since.

 

[Demonheart]

I thought it would have been self explanatory.

Who has the easier job dealing with a 'go home factor'?

Carlton with 40% of its 2013 list from interstate? West Coast with 40% of its' 2013 list from interstate? Or Brisbane with 90% of its 2013 list from interstate?

So what? It's a sporting competition, shit happens. Why should one club have ridiculous advantages that other clubs don't have access to? Where else in the world does this take place?

 

[Defacto]

This.

Better throw "COLA" allowances at St Kilda, Western Bulldogs etc because they haven't won a flag in decades.

Look at the team on top of the ladder FFS & where they were 3 years ago.

They're going through a rebuilding stage after Voss' moneyball team. Their team is young, they'll find the balance of who wants to stay there, gain experience, the wins will follow & the crowd return. Its all cyclical.

One of the biggest problems in the AFL is making rash decisions on the fly, just let it be and everything will be sweet.

the problem with the COLA stuff is that we couldnt afford to pay it. same with the doggies. were in a hole financially. i'd much rather have greater support from equalisation measures than receive an advantage in terms of salary cap

 

[Inspector Malceski]

The go home factor is such a wank.

Look at the star players we've lost in recent years. Ball, Dal Santo & Goodard (all from Vic) left and Lenny (NSW) & Roo (Qld) stayed.

they left for life boats as the titanic was sinking

 

[Roylion]

Why should one club have ridiculous advantages that other clubs don't have access to?

Redressing a disadvantage.

As I said Brisbane is the ONLY club in a developing market, that does not have any sort of salary cap bonus to retain players. Unlike Sydney, GWS and the Gold Coast who all do. So not only does Brisbane have 90% of their list from interstate, they have a reduced capacity to retain those players compared to their direct competitor, the Gold Coast Suns. Sydney and GWS also suffer from the same problem of retaining interstate players, being in a non-football state, but have increased capacity to deal with the problem. The Lions do not.

Five Lions players (four of them first round draft picks) returned to their home state from Brisbane last year. Two of those went to the club they supported as a kid. Four nominated a particular club, reducing Brisbane's capacity to gain what they considered to be adequate compensation for them.

 

[JasRulz63]

This is a sporting competition where the clubs are meant to compete on an equal footing, that's what it's meant to be anyway. It stopped when the AFL manufactured Brisbane's success and they've been addicted to it ever since.

Even if you remove the "advantages" that NSW and Queensland clubs have, there's still the fact that the fixture is unfair and based around blockbusters so that the stronger teams get stronger and also that 8 out of the 10 teams in the competition need to travel basically every second week while some other clubs travel 5 times a season.

 

[Demonheart]

Redressing a disadvantage.

As I said Brisbane is the ONLY club in a developing market, that does not have any sort of salary cap bonus to retain players. Unlike Sydney, GWS and the Gold Coast who all do. So not only does Brisbane have 90% of their list from interstate, they have a reduced capacity to retain those players compared to their direct competitor, the Gold Coast Suns, but also Sydney and GWS, who also suffer from the same problem of being in a non-football state.

Five Lions players (four of them first round draft picks) returned to their home state from Brisbane last year. Two of those went to the club they supported as a kid. Four nominated a particular club, reducing Brisbane's capacity to gain what they considered to be adequate compensation for them.

I didn't see any Brisbane fans complaining about how unfair it was when Moloney decided to join Brisbane, and the answer was it wasn't unfair. Moloney left because Melbourne were ordinary. Those five Lions players left because of a poor culture. Melbourne has lost many players over the last five years, so what? Should we have a COLA because of it?

This is a national sporting competition, no where else in the world has unfair advantages been given to a team over and above the rest of the competition like what Brisbane has received in the past.

Brisbane is addicted to AFL concessions, they can't compete without them. Now it's time they did.

 

[Vankri]

Even if you remove the "advantages" that NSW and Queensland clubs have, there's still the fact that the fixture is unfair and based around blockbusters so that the stronger teams get stronger and also that 8 out of the 10 teams in the competition need to travel basically every second week while some other clubs travel 5 times a season.

I'm sure all the smaller Victorian clubs (and many supporters from larger clubs) would be happy with a fair and equal fixture. But the travelling factor is a non-argument, it is just a product of the league's situation, which has so many Melbourne teams. What you lose in travel time, you gain in home ground advantage. Or you should be.

 

[Demonheart]

Even if you remove the "advantages" that NSW and Queensland clubs have, there's still the fact that the fixture is unfair and based around blockbusters so that the stronger teams get stronger and also that 8 out of the 10 teams in the competition need to travel basically every second week while some other clubs travel 5 times a season.

Yeah, no shit. Clubs like Melbourne, Doggies and North have been battling this crap for years.

But apparently only clubs like Brisbane have a 'disadvantage' that needs to be remedied. Go figure.

The travel thing is a furphy, you should listen to how Roos treated travelling during his time at Sydney

 

[Vankri]

Redressing a disadvantage.

As I said Brisbane is the ONLY club in a developing market, that does not have any sort of salary cap bonus to retain players. Unlike Sydney, GWS and the Gold Coast who all do. So not only does Brisbane have 90% of their list from interstate, they have a reduced capacity to retain those players compared to their direct competitor, the Gold Coast Suns. Sydney and GWS also suffer from the same problem of retaining interstate players, being in a non-football state, but have increased capacity to deal with the problem. The Lions do not.

Five Lions players (four of them first round draft picks) returned to their home state from Brisbane last year. Two of those went to the club they supported as a kid. Four nominated a particular club, reducing Brisbane's capacity to gain what they considered to be adequate compensation for them.

If Brisbane has 90% of their list from interstate, it means the game is not mature enough in its area to be able to source local players. Telling really, about the artificial success and situation the AFL has created.

 

[Crawb]

Yeah, no shit. Clubs like Melbourne, Doggies and North have been battling this crap for years.

But apparently only clubs like Brisbane have a 'disadvantage' that needs to be remedied. Go figure.

The travel thing is a furphy, you should listen to how Roos treated travelling during his time at Sydney

Small Victorian clubs have challenges, no one is denying that. But the challenges we face absolutely shit all over yours, I wish they didn't, but it's reality.

 

[Crawb]

I didn't see any Brisbane fans complaining about how unfair it was when Moloney decided to join Brisbane, and the answer was it wasn't unfair. Moloney left because Melbourne were ordinary. Those five Lions players left because of a poor culture. Melbourne has lost many players over the last five years, so what? Should we have a COLA because of it?

This is a national sporting competition, no where else in the world has unfair advantages been given to a team over and above the rest of the competition like what Brisbane has received in the past.

Brisbane is addicted to AFL concessions, they can't compete without them. Now it's time they did.

No where else in the world do teams face such inequality in a league where everyone is meant to have an equal opportunity. The advantages we should have are to re-address the inequality.


Okay then, pay the tanking 500K fine, get rid of Roos as he is being bankrolled by the AFL then. Melbourne is addicted to AFL concessions, they can't compete with out them.


I find a Melbourne fan whinging about extra help from the AFL being all very ironic. You have received appropriate help to try and recover from YOUR **** ups. So why can't we receive appropriate help to deal with our **** ups which have been heightened twofold by the large disadvantages we face?

 

[Simba Moyo]

If Brisbane has 90% of their list from interstate, it means the game is not mature enough in its area to be able to source local players. Telling really, about the artificial success and situation the AFL has created.

Which can only mean the academies are a positive thing for the league.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

If the AFL had the choice of losing Collingwood or Brisbane or Sydney or Fremantle or Adelaide then I think you'll be without a club to follow.

Simply not true. Collingwood are the biggest football club and you're having a laugh if you think the AFL would fold them before Brisbane if they had to make a choice between the two

 

[Roylion]

I didn't see any Brisbane fans complaining about how unfair it was when Moloney decided to join Brisbane, and the answer was it wasn't unfair. Moloney left because Melbourne were ordinary. Those five Lions players left because of a poor culture. Melbourne has lost many players over the last five years, so what?

Brent Moloney wanted to stay with Melbourne, the club he grew up supporting. He was best and fairest for Melbourne in 2011 and the team's vice captain. He had a falling out with coach Mark Neeld in 2012 and played only 15 matches in 2012 before joining the Lions under the AFL's new free agency rule. Melbourne under Neeld chose to restructure and rebuild their list.

Moloney therefore became a restricted free agent and any offer to Moloney by Brisbane could have been matched by Melbourne which had right of first refusal over his services. When Melbourne declined to match the offer, they received a third round pick as compensation in any case.

Should we have a COLA because of it? .

Brisbane never received a COLA (i.e Cost Of Living Allowance). Brisbane used to receive a player retention allowance, because of its disadvantage in being able to adequately retain players given that most of their list was from outside Queensland.

In 2014 about 65% of Melbourne's senior list is from the state it is located in. 10% of Brisbane's list is from the state it is located in.

This is a national sporting competition, no where else in the world has unfair advantages been given to a team over and above the rest of the competition like what Brisbane has received in the past.

Brisbane once received a 10% bonus to the salary cap to retain interstate players. At the same time Sydney Swans received a 15% bonus.

Brisbane is addicted to AFL concessions, they can't compete without them. Now it's time they did.

Brisbane hasn't received AFL concessions for close to a decade now.

 

[Rod Stroker]

And yet, a lot of players still took a pay cut.

But you were given a higher salary cap (retention), so you still had more money than other clubs to keep those players.