Opinion Butcher

[Hellgood]

And in addition, the Magpies kicked two goals for the entire game on the weekened with Johncock the only goal scorer. Where do you think Butcher is more likely to build confidence? It's best for him and best for the team that he stays in so he's not going anywhere.

 

[StrappingTape]

If anything just look at Taylor Walker. Did Cwaigy leaving him languish in the SANFL help his development one iota? No, he came on much quicker once he was left in the AFL team to figure it out.

 

[Jonts]

Full Forward?
I thought CHF was supposed to be the toughest?

i was of the opinion it was CHB

 

[tribey]

i was of the opinion it was CHB

Struggling forwards are often moved there so they can run straight at the ball and beat their opponent negatively by stopping them as opposed to having to double back, lead and take the initiative of beating their opponent positively by making things happen.

As a rule it's easier to niggle, block and spoil than it is to get clear, mark and kick for goal.

 

[klem22]

If anything just look at Taylor Walker. Did Cwaigy leaving him languish in the SANFL help his development one iota? No, he came on much quicker once he was left in the AFL team to figure it out.

I could not compare Butcher with T Walker i think Walker is a much better player than Butcher will be. {I hope i am wrong here though}

One of the biggest differences is their body shape and movement i have real concern for Butchers physique to me it does not lend itself readily to define itself in AFL quality football . In comparison T Walker is very much built to AFL football.

I think Butcher has some serious questions hanging over his career. Port need to snare the best talent it can find and unless Butcher improves markedly he may go by the way side.

 

[Powerstufff]

..... He isnt a contested one on one mark, never has been and never will be ....

Butch is a special talent who is getting game time to develop. Just because a skinny kid with 19 games to his credit isn't pulling down marks like Tredrea is no reason to bag him. His ability to move when the ball is down is magical in its own way, what he did when he caused Talia to spill the mark early in the game is an example. Look at the time it took Tom Hawkins and Jarryd Roughead to get where they are. I do know every dud has their apologists but Butch is no dud. Hinkley and co know who to try and who to discard.

 

[itisnt2hard]

Butch is a special talent who is getting game time to develop. Just because a skinny kid with 19 games to his credit isn't pulling down marks like Tredrea is no reason to bag him. His ability to move when the ball is down is magical in its own way, what he did when he caused Talia to spill the mark early in the game is an example. Look at the time it took Tom Hawkins and Jarryd Roughead to get where they are. I do know every dud has their apologists but Butch is no dud. Hinkley and co know who to try and who to discard.

Never bagged him. I know this kid can play. But NOT as our main tall target. He can get his own ball and would be more advantageous playing up the ground. Poor bugger looked like a dressed up scarecrow the last few weeks with someone pushing the remote to get his legs off the ground every time the ball came near him. Seriously even Butch wouldnt defend his own efforts lately. Get him up the ground.

 

[edgie]

I'm not convinced playing Butcher is doing our structure the world of good and freeing up Schulz as I'm still seeing Sarge double or triple teamed more than once a game, but I am convinced he has to stay in the AFL as long as he is contributing, providing an option, and making a contest. He has shown he has the hands and the legs to make it, and the nous to lead in to the right places, it's just our forward structure is the one area I would be critical this year as the opposition seem to be really nullifying our talls ability to impact the scoreboard since Westhoff's drop off midway through the year and always seem to know where to drop their loose players.

Also, his physical issues. He will be better with a full pre-season

It's like he is starting behind the 8-ball from the get go (which could explain his confidence), we need to give him a break.

 

[faquito]

I could not compare Butcher with T Walker i think Walker is a much better player than Butcher will be. {I hope i am wrong here though}

One of the biggest differences is their body shape and movement i have real concern for Butchers physique to me it does not lend itself readily to define itself in AFL quality football . In comparison T Walker is very much built to AFL football.

I think Butcher has some serious questions hanging over his career. Port need to snare the best talent it can find and unless Butcher improves markedly he may go by the way side.

Butcher's injury history - Stress fractures in the back, Hamstrings, both hips operated on etc.
Best exercises to build size/power - variations of Squat, Deadlift, Cleans etc.

Do you see the correlation in Butcher's injury history and his lack of size?

Conversely, T. Walker never had an issue with size or ability, it was always him being a lazy but flashy player who wasn't given a chance under the Crowbot regime. Being lazy** has its advantages in gaining size funnily enough.

**lazy as in, no second or defensive efforts. i.e. not putting enough kms into his legs.

My hope is that he stays injury free for the rest of the year to have a full preseason. Meaning full 3 months of match simulations, running around with Schulz & Westhoff and full weights program.

 

[Jonts]

Struggling forwards are often moved there so they can run straight at the ball and beat their opponent negatively by stopping them as opposed to having to double back, lead and take the initiative of beating their opponent positively by making things happen.

As a rule it's easier to niggle, block and spoil than it is to get clear, mark and kick for goal.

I've played both, talked to enough footballers

i would prefer CHF compared to CHB any day

 

[Phhht]

I've played both, talked to enough footballers

i would prefer CHF compared to CHB any day

Jonts it may be a personal preference for you but its universally accepted that CHF is the toughest position on the ground.

 

[Janus]

Remember earlier in the year when there were a few people who ragged on Lobbe and Moore for not being up to AFL standard? Some people just take a little while to click into gear. I don't think Butcher is ever going to be the type of KPF that will kick you bags of 5 goals every week. What he will do, and what he's good at doing, is create a contest and create space for guys like Wingard, Gray and Monfries to carve up the opposition due to them being worried about where he is in the forward 50.

Sometimes structure is more important than individual production, and a great team is one that has multiple avenues of attack. As our midfield develops, it will be up to John to provide the scoreboard pressure against those teams that try to clog up space in the center of the ground and leave him one out. I have faith that when that time comes, Butcher will stand up.

 

[charcolechaddy]

This thread is now about...play jackson in the ruck...discuss...

And after last week Broardbent is the best spoiling back pocket in the league .

 

[charcolechaddy]

How much better is Schulzs form with Butch in the side?

Reminds me of this football myth called structure.

 

[Wargreymon90]

Remember what Hooker did to us without butcher to contest?

Now imagine Harry Taylor without butcher.

 

[King_Tredrea]

Jackson Trengove is a better forward than butcher..id swap them next week and see how they go.

There is absolutely no evidence of this what so ever.

 

[Jonts]

Jonts it may be a personal preference for you but its universally accepted that CHF is the toughest position on the ground.

half of my post was saying i've talked to others

maybe its just at local level but myself and lots of others i know prefer CHF to CHB anyday of the week

but each to their own

 

[BornPort]

Looks like we're getting serious about improving his kicking.

Darren Burgess ‏@darrenburgess25 55m
Some 3D analysis of @JButcher_11 kicking with @alecbuttfield. Great kit with some great info. pic.twitter.com/qdn4232BfR

 

[Peck]

I think Butcher has a lot of talent, but has learned everything wrong.

Doesn't know how to use his body in contests, because he never needed to.
Doesn't know when/where to lead, because he never needed to.
Doesn't have a proper set shot routine, because he never needed to.

I'm not sure how much of this stuff can be learned after you've "made" it, but hopefully he can improve his output tenfold. I don't believe he will ever be worth the pick we spent on him, but I do think he can reach Leigh Brown (in his collingwood years), and certainly Kozshitzke levels of output.

He has pace, height, and good hands. He can easily have an impact if he starts learning instead of playing (if that makes any sense?). The guy needs to start working a lot harder if he is going to be the next Tredrea, and unfortunately that simply doesn't happen very often. If we want another Tredrea we are going to have to get them elsewhere, but Butcher can be taught to fill a specific need, and have a decent impact IMO.

 

[Doctor Feel]

Also a short video on the kicking analysis on Wingards instagram.

http://web.stagram.com/p/514018628179493859_238456183

lold @ that crazy bitches comments.

 

[TheFVK]

1 goal, 1 goal assist, took heat off Jay, allowed us to use Westhoff as a chess queen all over the board.

Yeah, let's drop him for Daniel Stewart.

Highlighted for what an apt and awesome description of Westhoff that is.



Butch is developing just fine and our forwards are performing great with him in the side.

Hell, just last week he got us off to a cracker with the first two goals of the game. So long as he is performing a role (and he is) and continuing his growth he needs to stay in the side.

Just look at the list of players who, maligned for one reason or another, are one by one coming good:

Player - "Kneejerk premature BF comment"​

Boak - "not doing enough"​

Broadbent - "gold pass" (2011 comment)​

Westhoff - "one good game in 10"​

O'Shea - "w0rst player ever"​

Hartlett - "doesn't run both ways"​

Lobbe - "terrible ruck, always gets flogged"​

Trengove - "goofy and gangly, gives away too many frees"​

Moore - "not a pick 9, cant crack the 15 possession mark"​

Colquhoun - "too small, out of his league"​

Hell even Wingard was getting shit from sections of this board for trying too much, with some people questioning why Toby Greene was selected before him.

Patience people.

 

[RangaInTeal]

On that photo, he looks like his head is to far back before the ball has hit his boot!

 

[Powerstufff]

Also a short video on the kicking analysis (of Butcher) on Wingards instagram......

Were'd we get his top from, the U12s?

 

[tboak]

he is so far behind the rest of his draft due to injuries and he is a KP. Some of his draft class has only just started to show their picks worth. I cant wait for his first full preseason under burgess. once he is fitter stronger and more confident in his body, his kicking, marking and entire game will skyrocket.... then half of you will be eating your words!

or maybe i will....

 

[kaysee]

Also a short video on the kicking analysis on Wingards instagram.

http://web.stagram.com/p/514018628179493859_238456183

lold @ that crazy bitches comments.

Looks like is is auditioning for Gollum in the next Hobbit movie

On a serious note, I'm quite content with his current level of progress. Only 19 games in, continual injuries thus far, we just need to get his body used to playing week in and week out. I've seen enough passages of play to suggest he definitely has something to offer as a KF. He is definitely > Stewart and we need 3 tall forwards, because Schulz and Westy can be too easily closed down without another tall threat. Currently the only other player I would consider dropping Butcher for would be a fit Redden. I've heard people at the club rate him as one of our best natural forwards, but I prefer him in the ruck.

If Butcher can play our the season, have an uninterrupted pre-season, and continue 2014 without injury issues... I think we will see some very good things.