Opinion Butcher

[RangaInTeal]

This may sound a tad wanky, but hey... Isn't all I come out with wanky crap? Butcher and all his athletic qualities reminds me of Westhoff, his strength is his speed and agility for a lad his size. His hands and clunkability are his best footballing gift, much like the Napoleon Dynamite bloke known as Breadswater!

 

[RangaInTeal]

This may sound a tad wanky, but hey... Isn't all I come out with wanky crap? Butcher and all his athletic qualities reminds me of Westhoff, his strength is his speed and agility for a lad his size. His hands and clunkability are his best footballing gift, much like the Napoleon Dynamite bloke known as Breadswater!

Or Beard... Beardswater

 

[BrockBlitz]

A team of sports scientists and bio mechanists I think. Some vision via Chad's instagram account

http://distilleryimage3.s3.amazonaws.com/d73d9d68fbe111e2b41c22000ae802cf_101.mp4

http://web.stagram.com/p/514018628179493859_238456183

Guys name is Alec Buttfield. I'm pretty sure its just him - did some similar stuff with him last year on pace bowlers.

http://www.bioalchemy.com.au/experience.html

Hopefully going to squeeze a tour out of him some time this year

 

[BrockBlitz]

Also found this - http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/lifestyle/the-power-of-science-in-sport/story-fnizi7vf-1226678586365

 

[Andre]

he is a ******* spud and wont ever amount to anything. Lets trade him now for a handful of non-magic beans cause next year he wont be worth even that.

Pfftt to Phhht. I say throw in our first round pick and get some magic beans in return.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Also found this - http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/lifestyle/the-power-of-science-in-sport/story-fnizi7vf-1226678586365

Thanks for the link Brock. I dug up the SA weekend magazine from 13 July which has the article. Will read it in full later.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Guys name is Alec Buttfield. I'm pretty sure its just him - did some similar stuff with him last year on pace bowlers.

http://www.bioalchemy.com.au/experience.html

Hopefully going to squeeze a tour out of him some time this year

Cheers BB. Happy that we are using a well qualified biomechanist to do the data analysis. next step is then to get someone like Perkins to work with him to eliminate the faults picked up from Alec's analysis.

Found this bit on his website of interest.

biomechanics - running gait​

Using an array of video and high speed cameras, we can analyse running gait from a performance enhancement and injury prevention perspective. Whether it's a quick feedback session to access some augmented feedback immediately after the effort, or a full analysis looking at where the stride is breaking down, we can provide the analysis to give you the edge.
​

biomechanics - kicking​

Can a skill like kicking in AFL be improved? It's a question we get a lot. Our answer is that learning a skill cannot happen without information. That information can come in many forms including a biomechanical analysis of where the skill is falling down, and where you can optimise your technique to suit your own body. A biomechanical analysis like this would include a remedial program to improve your performance.

 

[faquito]

Cheers BB. Happy that we are using a well qualified biomechanist to do the data analysis. next step is then to get someone like Perkins to work with him to eliminate the faults picked up from Alec's analysis.

biomechanics - kicking​

Can a skill like kicking in AFL be improved? It's a question we get a lot. Our answer is that learning a skill cannot happen without information. That information can come in many forms including a biomechanical analysis of where the skill is falling down, and where you can optimise your technique to suit your own body. A biomechanical analysis like this would include a remedial program to improve your performance.

I've always been interested in the biomechanics of kicking in the AFL. I find that the action required for the drop punt (especially at set shots) doesn't make optimal use of the hips and 'kinetic linking'. I liken it to front kicks used in say karate and kung fu compared to roundhouses and '45 degree' kicks used in Muay Thai.

You'll notice the use of the hips moreso with left footers when they launch their kicks (Trent McKenzie, Matt Suckling, Lance Franklin's angled run up, Hartlett uses his hips well and is one of the only right footers I've watched extensively to do so).

I have no scientific backup for this, but I have a feeling it has something to do with most coaches/parents/mentors of left footers being right footed. Without the advantage of being able to mimic their coaches directly they have to assess the action and adjust based on what feels best for them at a young age.

 

[Peck]

That's wrong. Then again it 'seems' you believe someone being called a ******* is copping it lightly

If you cant understand that injuries and lack of preseasons has had a major impact on him then you must be blind. Are you part of that group think that wants Moore and Lobbe shunted off?

"Justin Westhoff is a Gutless Worm" as a thread title, which was a thread that had gone on 4 pages before anyone said anything. "Kane Cornes is the worst 250 game player in the history of this club" "Daniel Stewart is a pea hearted spud". Think about the crap that Jacobs copped even while he was still at this club. Somehow I don't think "Kicks it long at goal where it goes through the ******* John Butcher's hands for a goal!!" and a thread full of people arguing over whether he will make it or not (not all unanimously saying he should be delisted like the Westhoff thread I mentioned) compares even remotely.

Woopity doo. Does it make you feel special that you respect battlers? What makes you think that I don’t respect guys for trying their hardest to make a go of being an AFL player? The fact that I defended someone being called spud/*******? Or is it that you think I should defend some of the bs performances guys like Cornes or Logan have put in simply because they 'had to work hard'?

I think standing up for the little guy is what this country is about, but please go on to tell me how the rich are taxed too much, and we are in a debt crisis because we are helping the poor too much. I know your type, you are the kind of guy whose kids are the captain and vice captain of the cricket team, and open the bowling and batting every game.

I also want to repeat that why I respect them is strongly related to them playing better through intelligence rather than physical ability. Not just hard work. Its obvious you prefer it the other way, but I won't insult you for that.

Lol…so please explain to me where Butcher has been given more time and money than say Justin Westhoff or Jay Schulz. Is Butcher taller than Westhoff, faster? Is he taller or faster than Daniel Stewart. Has he been given more time than Daniel Stewart? Has he been given more time than Schulzy? Is he being payed more than Kornes? Your assertion that Butcher has been given some sort of preferential treatment is BULLSHIT.

I don't know about Jay Schulz who was also a first round draft pick, but compared to Justin Weshoff who was a 3rd round draft pick at 20 years old? I daresay John Butcher has had more resources given to him.

Anyway, I'll leave it there. I just wanted to point out how little Butcher has copped it compared to others, and the larger number of people defending him when compared to others. Have a nice day.

PS: I'll add no one has said "delist John Butcher" or complained we should have picked someone else at pick 8.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I've always been interested in the biomechanics of kicking in the AFL. I find that the action required for the drop punt (especially at set shots) doesn't make optimal use of the hips and 'kinetic linking'. I liken it to front kicks used in say karate and kung fu compared to roundhouses and '45 degree' kicks used in Muay Thai.

You'll notice the use of the hips moreso with left footers when they launch their kicks (Trent McKenzie, Matt Suckling, Lance Franklin's angled run up, Hartlett uses his hips well and is one of the only right footers I've watched extensively to do so).

I have no scientific backup for this, but I have a feeling it has something to do with most coaches/parents/mentors of left footers being right footed. Without the advantage of being able to mimic their coaches directly they have to assess the action and adjust based on what feels best for them at a young age.

I'm a left footer and I am stuffed if I know why I, like most left footers at all levels, run in on a arc for a set shots as well around the ground but right footers don't. Lloyd is about the only leftie who I can think of who ran in on a straight line when shooting for goal.

The rugby code guys who have set shots for goal from a penalty, both right and left footers, run in on an arc. Not sure if that has anything with wanting to get a great surface area of their foot under the ball rather than just the front toe area.

 

[faquito]

I'm a left footer and I am stuffed if I know why I, like most left footers at all levels, run in on a arc for a set shots as well around the ground but right footers don't. Lloyd is about the only leftie who I can think of who ran in on a straight line when shooting for goal.

The rugby code guys who have set shots for goal from a penalty, both right and left footers, run in on an arc. Not sure if that has anything with wanting to get a great surface area of their foot under the ball rather than just the front toe area.

I'm a right footer, but I do my run up in an arc/angle as I grew up playing soccer where you open up prior to a kick. Ha, I wonder if my theory could be worked in reverse, with left footed kicking coaches

Would be interested to see Butch's field kicking action/run up. If he pulls some big goal tallies in the AFL, the umpires might give him the Buddy leeway and allow him to run in his natural arc.

MODS, please move this conversation if you feel it is derailing the Butcher thread.

 

[RossFC]

I don't know what it is but Butcher needs to get angry/mad and show some passion and act like a 197cm beast.

 

[Phhht]

"Justin Westhoff is a Gutless Worm" as a thread title, which was a thread that had gone on 4 pages before anyone said anything. "Kane Cornes is the worst 250 game player in the history of this club" "Daniel Stewart is a pea hearted spud..

So what have those threads got to do with me defending Butcher? Are you seriously trying to have a go at me because I didn’t run in and defend someone quickly enough for your liking compared to me defending someone being called a *******? Are you really that sanctimonious?

Think about the crap that Jacobs copped even while he was still at this club.

I thought plenty about a guy that showed virtually nothing despite being given plenty of opportunity. I don’t remember Jacobs missing every preseason and being injured constantly. I do remember him taking the option of returning home at his first chance when times at our club were tough. But hey, that’s okay, I remember that you respect the guys that have to work their arses off for everything they get, that’s the type of person you are.

I think standing up for the little guy is what this country is about, but please go on to tell me how the rich are taxed too much, and we are in a debt crisis because we are helping the poor too much. I know your type, you are the kind of guy whose kids are the captain and vice captain of the cricket team, and open the bowling and batting every game..

Pmsl….Lurk3r, the Robin Hood of the Port BF board. You are now the quintessential Australian, defending the rights of the downtrodden, championing the fight against the rich, correcting the ills of the country’s debt crisis. Perhaps you should stand for parliament, being a sanctimonious arse-wipe is a pre-requisite and it looks at this stage as though you qualify. I am not sure you have it fully covered but you sure are making a decent fist of it..

I know your type, you are the kind of guy whose kids are the captain and vice captain of the cricket team, and open the bowling and batting every game..

And pray tell, how do you know ANYTHING about me that would indicate whether I have any kids in the first place? Go on, I dare you to qualify your reasoning behind ‘knowing my type’? Are you honest and brave enough to admit that you are simply guessing and think that by throwing around your preconceived misconceptions that you may be able to justify your bullshit?

I also want to repeat that why I respect them is strongly related to them playing better through intelligence rather than physical ability. Not just hard work. Its obvious you prefer it the other way, but I won't insult you for that..

How is it obvious? How? Because I defended a player that isn’t bigger, faster or paid more than guys like Westhoff or Schulz or Kane? How? Explain it in simple terms. Explain to me how Butcher has more physical ability than Westhoff or Schulz or D Stewart or even Kane? It ‘seems’ like you ‘think’ you know me but aren’t able to consider that the ONLY thing I have done is defend a young player who has had injuries from being referred to as a ******* or a spud. Oh sorry, I didn’t rush to the defence of senior, experienced, fit players when they played like crap. Sorry, point to you. You may just have won the interwebz debate.Lol.

I don't know about Jay Schulz who was also a first round draft pick, but compared to Justin Weshoff who was a 3rd round draft pick at 20 years old? I daresay John Butcher has had more resources given to him..

Your delusion knows no bounds. I’ll ask you again, in simple terms, HOW has John Butcher had more resources thrown at him than Justin Westhoff? Explain. You ‘seem’ to think that repeating your imaginations is somehow fact. Or are you trying to say that because Justin Westhoff was a 3rd round pick he has received less coaching, rehab or money than John Butcher?
Here’s news for you sunshine. Your imaginations (or daresays) are not facts. Post facts or concede the point.

Anyway, I'll leave it there. I just wanted to point out how little Butcher has copped it compared to others, and the larger number of people defending him when compared to others. Have a nice day..

No, you may have wanted to point that out but you went on some tangents about how you are superior to others because you respect battlers, defend players quicker than others, somehow know who/what type of person I am. Your points of debate have rambled on about the rich, taxes, Australia’s debt crisis, Australia’s psyche, physical attributes of players the crap goes on. As I said your ramblings go on and on, you possibly feel your bullshit justifies your point of view but you need to remember its still bullshit.

PS: I'll add no one has said "delist John Butcher" or complained we should have picked someone else at pick 8.

This probably sums it up best. We have posts of people wanting to trade Butcher now, get what we can before his value deteriorates further. We have people complaining about what a waste of pick 8 he was. And you still cant see it. Is your head up your proverbial?
And finally I'll state my position again. Butcher is a young tall player that needs to get healthy, fit and complete full preseasons before we evaluate his worth. If he cant he'll be moved on. But what I wont accept is people calling him a *******. Its poor enough people refer to him as a spud, to the point that threads that have nothing to do with John Butcher refer to him being a spud.

But again if you are comfortable with being someone that accepts players being called a *******, more power to you. After all you are that type of person.

Have a nice day

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Butch will be fine. Purely a confidence issue. He's not confident in his body and he's not confident in his ability. Once his body is right and he has confidence there, he'll transfer that confidence on to his ability because he'll be like "hey, I really CAN play this game!".

The St Kilda game this year showed signs. He's definitely an AFL player.

 

[faquito]

I feel this thread needs a bit of this.

 

[RangaInTeal]

I don't know what it is but Butcher needs to get angry/mad and show some passion and act like a 197cm beast.

Yeppp! Angry, urgency, some interest in the game at hand!!!!!!!!?,!!

 

[Powerade 08]

I like how Butchers name is thrown up in trade talks on BF as if we'd actually give him away for anything other than a top pick.

 

[itisnt2hard]

I like how Butchers name is thrown up in trade talks on BF as if we'd actually give him away for anything other than a top pick.

Could i sway you on current form for a second pick?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Could i sway you on current form for a second pick?

2nd round no

2nd overall yes

 

[itisnt2hard]

2nd round no

2nd overall yes

Thats just silly.

 

[raman]

No it's about right. Butcher for a second round pick in a dud draft would be insanity.

 

[itisnt2hard]

No it's about right. Butcher for a second round pick in a dud draft would be insanity.

its no dud draft raman. No draft ever is. It might not be the strongest but the future of every AFL club is up for grabs. Plus taking into account the opp to trade for an experienced player. Casual Kenny has already said in his presser that we will target available experience as well as quality draft picks. I like Kenny.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Thats just silly.

Throwing away a top 10 pick KPF for a speculative 2nd rounder, just as he is getting over his injuries and just before his first preseason under Burgess, when we have two other KPFs on the list, one 29 and one 19 is about as silly as it gets.

 

[raman]

I like Kenny too. I like him because, among other things, he wouldn't trade John Butcher for a second round draft pick.

 

[itisnt2hard]

Throwing away a top 10 pick KPF for a speculative 2nd rounder, just as he is getting over his injuries and just before his first preseason under Burgess, when we have two other KPFs on the list, one 29 and one 19 is about as silly as it gets.

I never said we use use the pick on speculative.