Opinion Butcher

[*PAF]

Give him a chance. People used to have a go at Hartlett until he finally managed to play a couple of full seasons with a decent pre season in between. Butcher is yet to do that.
#kpfsdonotgrowontrees

 

[n4nirvana]

1)
People forget he's only 22 yo

There is a dearth of actual (and accessible) KPF in the league to the point where a 25 yo, 35 games over 7 seasons Scott Gumbleton was considered worthwhile trading for last year.

2)
According to the Port website

http://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/player-profile/john-butcher

Butch is 197 cm, 94 kg

I can see two ways of developing him the next season or 2:

1. For him to continue as he is, a 197 cm/94 kg running/chasing mobile tall and hope he gets somewhere with this style

or

2. Ask him to pack on another 5-10 kg muscle and be a stay at home forward in the mould of a Tom Hawkins. The weight would prob affect point 1 but it would help with hip strength (remembering he had a season or 2 ruined by hip surgery)/not getting pushed in a contest

If he learns to keep his feet in a contest from Robbie Gray and kicking technique from Schulz he'd be well on his way on holding our forward line together when Schulz (29 yo now) finishes.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Definitely needs to put on some muscle, maybe not as big as Tom Hawkins but his current frame makes him easy to outbody.

 

[faquito]

But that's the thing, guys with hip/back/hamstring injuries hardly ever do well with the extra weight.

I reckon he may be able to gain an extra 2kg or so, but I doubt he'll ever become a big forward.

 

[ROBBBO]

he hasn't thickened out just yet, he will end up a big boy.

we have arguably the best kick in the league out our club in Schultz, needs work with him on his set shot

today he was just so lazy with that set shot on goal, otherwise he was pretty awesome I thought

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

1)

Butch is 197 cm, 94 kg

I can see two ways of developing him the next season or 2:

1. For him to continue as he is, a 197 cm/94 kg running/chasing mobile tall and hope he gets somewhere with this style

or

2. Ask him to pack on another 5-10 kg muscle and be a stay at home forward in the mould of a Tom Hawkins. The weight would prob affect point 1 but it would help with hip strength (remembering he had a season or 2 ruined by hip surgery)/not getting pushed in a contest
..

Butcher will never put on big muscle bulk because of his genetic hip issues. I had a good to chat to him about it at the 2012 B&F when I introduce myself as one of the guys form big footy, who was his player sponsor but he never met anyone as it was a combo Captains club + player sponsorship so he chated to Ford and I for about 15 minutes. He missed the CC dinner because he was ill.

If he bulks up too much in the upper body it will put an abnormal amount of stress in his hips. He said his old man and brother has the same issue.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

If the set shot yips continue how long till they see what he's like down back, he does over run the ball in flight quite a bit for a forward I'd just be interested see what he's like in defence ie. tracking his man & being drawn to the contest by his opponent. He's quick for his size & his kicking in general play isn't too bad, Don't shoot me for wondering lol

 

[Ford Fairlane]

If the set shot yips continue how long till they see what he's like down back, he does over run the ball in flight quite a bit for a forward I'd just be interested see what he's like in defence ie. tracking his man & being drawn to the contest by his opponent. He's quick for his size & his kicking in general play isn't too bad, Don't shoot me for wondering lol

With Mason Shaw back soon and Renouf returning to the B's, there will be some shuffling to do with the talls at SANFL level. I've wondered aloud about playing Butch down back as a tall defender like a Mitch Johnson. But then he clunks a couple of big grabs up forward and you're back to thinking if only he could kick. It's a rare talent to be able to take those marks up forward.

You really think his kicking could have been sorted by now. Listening to Jay Schulz last week talk about his goal kicking with Pythagorean complexity, surely he could take Butch aside and just teach him the mechanics of a sound ball drop and kicking action. At the moment it's almost drop the ball, close your eyes and hope for the best.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

im trying my hardest to change my opinions on butcher, but unfortunately he isnt doing anywhere near enough. there has to be that tipping point where people start to realise that he simply cant kick the footy, and to be a top line footballer, you NEED to be able to kick the footy. wont be long before Shaw and Harvey make you people forget all about butcher.

 

[PJ Power]

For those who get to the Sanfl games, is he busting his guts out there and working hard enough? His stats suggest otherwise, although I note he had five tackles.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

For those who get to the Sanfl games, is he busting his guts out there and working hard enough? His stats suggest otherwise, although I note he had five tackles.

It's really hard to tell unless you went to a game like a professional recruiter and decided to just watch Butcher all day.

When he is in a contest no one works harder. If he overruns a ball or spills a mark he is straight back into it like a pit bull after a kid on a bike. If he is close enough to effect some sort of pressure he will be in there. He never quits.

The trouble is he can utterly disappear from a game and you quite literally forget he is out there. Where is he during these times? Abducted by aliens, having burgers with Elvis? I don't know, hence the need for a specialised Butcher-watch.

As JimmyBeerCans and Macca19 previously have acknowledged he leads himself under the ball way too much, like he has the depth perception of a 90 year old. Then he's taking himself out of contests.

In the Magpies he might have Harvey with him up forward, Bruggemann, Shaw to come and he could be trying to do the team thing and not get in the way of the other tall forwards. It can be a frustrating life as the tall forward, offering leads that are basically decoys. He might actually be working too hard to give space to team mates and dragging himself out of the contest.

 

[1954]

But that's the thing, guys with hip/back/hamstring injuries hardly ever do well with the extra weight.

I reckon he may be able to gain an extra 2kg or so, but I doubt he'll ever become a big forward.

Agreed, Butch appears considerably lighter than last year, he looks to have lost at least 3 or 4 kilos to me, and I doubt he is anywhere near the 94 kgs he is listed as on the club site ( see REH's explanation), and with his hip problems a couple of extra kg's is probably all his frame could handle.

In the first half of yesterday's game he was jostled and moved off the ball a number of times by the south fullback, and that player's body pressure cost him at least 3 marks in the 1st qtr.

Whilst on the weight of players, Bruggeman is listed as 192 cm and 78 kg's in the footy budget, he would be at least 92 - 94 kg's, he is built like a brick shizenhausen.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Whilst on the weight of players, Bruggeman is listed as 192 cm and 78 kg's in the footy budget, he would be at least 92 - 94 kg's, he is built like a brick shizenhausen.

They took that weight before he put his right foot on the scales.

 

[1954]

For those who get to the Sanfl games, is he busting his guts out there and working hard enough? His stats suggest otherwise, although I note he had five tackles.

As Ford has explained, there are periods where Butch works his arse off, with numerous 2nd, and even 3rd efforts, but there are other periods where he just disappears.

There is definitely something to the `depth Perception ' comment, his mistimed leads are a chronic issue, ie he either goes too early and ends up too far under the ball, or too late, and a defender has blocked his run, or he is jumping 2 and 3 deep.

The game against the gay bays was a case in point, most full forwards would have comfortably had 15 - 20 shots on goal that day and scored 12 plus, Butch finished with 5, but 2 or 3 of those were from over the back scraps, and whilst any goal is handy, soccering loose balls in the goal square isn't usually a key forward's bread and butter.

 

[PJ Power]

Surely Tredrea, Hodges or Schulz could spend some time with him to bring his leading up to speed. The club should be prepared to invest the necessary resources into his development.

 

[Pedro59]

im trying my hardest to change my opinions on butcher, but unfortunately he isnt doing anywhere near enough. there has to be that tipping point where people start to realise that he simply cant kick the footy, and to be a top line footballer, you NEED to be able to kick the footy. wont be long before Shaw and Harvey make you people forget all about butcher.

Reckon it is all in the brain
Doesn't the club have access to good sport shrinks?
Cloke used to practice with recordings of hostile fans booing in his earphones
F'kn garden up Princess butch or your days are done!

 

[Pedro59]

Reckon it is all in the brain
Doesn't the club have access to good sport shrinks?
Cloke used to practice with recordings of hostile fans booing in his earphones
F'kn garden up Princess butch or your days are done!

*harden up

 

[Powerstufff]

.... he does over run the ball in flight quite a bit for a forward ...

Yeah, did it several times in the first quarter but it didn't seem so obvious on TV. Misjudged the drop of the long pass and of course unable to turn back because of a defender up his clacker. Yet in the second half consistently judged the drop perfectly and marked well.

 

[*PAF]

I dunno.
To use a term I've seen used and misused on BF lately, there are a couple of non negotiables required to have a good season. A non interrupted pre season, no lingering injuries and for consitency to show one needs to have around 50 games under their belts.
Butcher doesn't meet any of them and hasn't for a couple of years yet a number of people want him shown the door?
Kidding me right?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Interestingly, the club's website gave Butcher 4th best.

portadelaidefc.com.au’s best: Moore, Heath, Summerton, Butcher, Neade, Flynn

 

[Tibbs]

It's really hard to tell unless you went to a game like a professional recruiter and decided to just watch Butcher all day. When he is in a contest no one works harder. If he overruns a ball or spills a mark he is straight back into it like a pit bull after a kid on a bike. If he is close enough to effect some sort of pressure he will be in there. He never quits.
.......

 

[Port81]

His field kicking is fine, its when he is having set shots within the 50 he shits himself, until he sorts that routine out he needs to stay in the sanfl.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Whilst on the weight of players, Bruggeman is listed as 192 cm and 78 kg's in the footy budget, he would be at least 92 - 94 kg's, he is built like a brick shizenhausen.

I have one budget that lists him as 78kgs and another 92kgs but I wouldn't be surprised if he's closer to 95kgs.

 

[1954]

Yeah, did it several times in the first quarter but it didn't seem so obvious on TV. Misjudged the drop of the long pass and of course unable to turn back because of a defender up his clacker. Yet in the second half consistently judged the drop perfectly and marked well.

Butch doesn't appear to have any problem judging the flight of the ball when he stops and props, or when he takes a chest mark, it is when he leads for a ball above his eyes that his timing is way off.

If he has a sight issue, you would hope the club would have investigated that yonks ago.

 

[Powerstufff]

Butch doesn't appear to have any problem judging the flight of the ball when he stops and props, or when he takes a chest mark, it is when he leads for a ball above his eyes that his timing is way off.

If he has a sight issue, you would hope the club would have investigated that yonks ago.

Yeah but barring having forgotten to put contacts in early on his sight is not going to change within a game. You could distil all posts on his SANFL games into 'inconsistent', and that's for everything. Effort, marking, defensive pressure, goal-kicking.