Opinion Butcher

[Robbie4PM]

No I'm not suggesting 99% of the population would like it at all. I can sure as hell guarantee you that majority of people still will though. Are you suggesting only 1% would hate it? That's how companies product test. Trial on groups of people. Apologies for not going into deeper statistics about marketing.

As for your Butch. Your original statement said nothing about people you've talked to or FB. Just a comment about you thinking posters on BF aren't a representation of port supporters. Had you mentioned FB or conversations you've had with people rather than just sounding like you're a master of reading people, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I certainly didn't have anyone around me taking this piss. If I did I would of had words. One of our players is out there trying his best to contribute to a win. Don't need muppets bronx cheering him and taking the piss!

Well disagree if the data is bias but anyway, doesn't matter.

How do you explain the cheering when he field kicks then or the cheering when he misses?

I guess you could read the massive amount of talk around the stadium when he is lining up as encouragment, or discussion of how many bays either side of the point post the shot will land. That kind of talk doesn't happen for any other player.

 

[Robbie4PM]

Agree on the technique. I think the issue at the moment is there is no routine to analyse. Every run up seems to be different. Routine and rhythm are so important to set shot kicking, and he has absolutely none of it. I'm not sure if he's worked on one that goes out the window under pressure, but it just doesn't seem like he has one.

It is so weird because set shot taking is a skill which doesn't have external factors really compared to a field kick. So really you'd expect a player to field kick poorer because in reality they are under a lot more pressure physically so they go back to their bad habits and techniques. But it tends to be the players normally field kick the ball better because it is all in their head and they do weird sh*t when they have set shots. (stutters etc). The fact that he doesn't have a routine though after 6 years, questions have to be asked don't they. It is ridiculous he's shown little to no improvment and I am not sure I blame him for it.

 

[El_Scorcho]

It is so weird because set shot taking is a skill which doesn't have external factors really compared to a field kick. So really you'd expect a player to field kick poorer because in reality they are under a lot more pressure physically so they go back to their bad habits and techniques. But it tends to be the players normally field kick the ball better because it is all in their head and they do weird sh*t when they have set shots. (stutters etc). The fact that he doesn't have a routine though after 6 years, questions have to be asked don't they. It is ridiculous he's shown little to no improvment and I am not sure I blame him for it.

Yeah agree totally.

I think he's definitely partially to blame, but the coaches should be absolutely ashamed of themselves that they haven't even got him down to a set routine. As others have said, his kicking has actively gotten worse as the pressure has mounted, and the hole he has to climb out of is so much deeper than it was 3 years ago.

So many parts of our club have improved, but this is something that is a real indictment on the coaches responsible for him at the moment. You should be able to teach literally anyone physically capable of doing so to kick set shots at a reasonable level in 6 weeks, let alone 6 years.

 

[TeeKray]

The change in public opinion throughout this thread over the past month has been quite inspiring.

 

[Jason K]

Is it against AFL rules to place kick, like they do in Rugby?

 

[Stromageddon]

Butch's field kicking is good and mostly precise. As precise as any other AFL-listed player, at least. So, in my expert coaching opinion, we need to find a way to emulate his field kick in a set shot.

He should find a person in the crowd behind the goal posts, ignore the goal posts entirely, and just kick for that person. Forget the goals. Aim for that person. Heck, even if he has to have a run-up or a 'natural arc'. Whatever works.

I mean, it won't always work, of course, but surely it'd be better than his current set shot.

 

[x_les_x]

From what ken has said in his presser and from what john has showed its pretty much concluded that he will get 1 more year to show his worth. Hopefully, next year he takes a shade out of grays book (sorry had to do it) and maybe to a higher extent ah chee's year and really show that he belongs on our list. Both arch and gray were pretty muchcertain delistings on this board but fouggt tooth and nail to overcome the ones who are normally called up first; young mitchell moore etc ill back butch to do the same

 

[Malibu#27]

I know but there are some serious issues with that technique. Obviously once the technique is okay then its still a massive mental battle but gotta give yourself a chance first with the technique. If he goes away and improves, sign him up but he can't play for us kicking like that, that is all I am saying.

The mental issues is impacting the physical. He locks up and nothing flows because of the nerves. Because he gets that wound up its no longer physically driven. I expect he kicks pretty well at training.

 

[PatientMental]

Can't kick?

Then what the shit is this?

 

[*PAF]

I actually think his kicking for goal has regressed which is an indictment on many at the club.

Yep. Have to agree.

 

[Chachi]

Butch's field kicking is good and mostly precise. As precise as any other AFL-listed player, at least. So, in my expert coaching opinion, we need to find a way to emulate his field kick in a set shot.

He should find a person in the crowd behind the goal posts, ignore the goal posts entirely, and just kick for that person. Forget the goals. Aim for that person. Heck, even if he has to have a run-up or a 'natural arc'. Whatever works.

I mean, it won't always work, of course, but surely it'd be better than his current set shot.

I haven't been in Butch's corner but I agree with you, fix his set shots and he's a valuable player. Took some terrific marks yesterday and had a really strong impact on the game.
I agree with your philosophy, except he just need to kick on the goal umpires head and forget the big sticks are there. Or we get Paul Northeast to be his kicking coach!

 

[chiwigi]

Is it against AFL rules to place kick, like they do in Rugby?

I kicked one 8 years ago!

 

[*PAF]

Maybe it is just the younger generation doing it then. Since i made this post I have seen many of port supporters on my facebook post photos of butcher taking the piss. I guess I come from a different world to the average poster on here

And yes 30 people is not a big enough sample size for a population of what 300'000 port supporters?

Additionally the people that post on the forum are more your fanatical type supporters and not really a true representation of your average port supporter. So lets say you had a new chocolate type with popping candy jelly beans, and some sour shit in it. You give that to 100 children, 99 like it. So you are saying that 99% of the whole world are going to love it.

On Butch if we take my sample of people I know who'm I have discussed butcher with only 1 out of about 20 have said he is worth keeping. And that 1 is actually a poster on here, who is a butcher fan. So what I have said is maybe some of these supporters may be taking the piss, and maybe its a larger percentage than you think. I don't think I am out of line at all.

Edit: I don't work in the marketing world but I hope you don't either considering you have no concept of bias data or basically statistics at all

No offence intended as most supporters of all clubs are casual type supporters, however they are also the type that would say yes to questions such as 'Should we play Wanganeen as soon as he has recovered from injury?'

All they would know about Butcher is how shit his kicking for goal is. Nothing about his struggles with hip injuries etc.

Yeah good sized sample, but good sized sample for what?

 

[Contested Marx]

The same dickheads who are "No alf in the salf" and "AWWW MANNN UPPPP" and "GAWWW KICK THE BLOODY THING"

I was shouting KICK IT TO BUTCH every time we were going forward. Even when he was on the bench

 

[Powerstufff]

At the AO post-match KT made happy pro-Butch comments which, in combination with the recent 4 straight games, makes me think the club is going to offer him sort of contract extension.

 

[b0ydman]

He doesn't have to be taught anything. He knows how to kick and he does Kick and he can kick it 55 metres cleanly albeit with a bit of a jilted right foot action prior to kicking.

This is a really simple issue and it is in the head

and the inability to rectify this suggests that our in the head department at the club is a fail.

Does he have any kids? maybe if he had a kid in a wife and painting to do at home and real shit like to do with that mattered rather than can you kick a ball 50 metres between 2 pieces of wood maybe then his mind would be on the spot?

 

[Weez]

Being a professional AFL footballer and not being able to kick is like a carpenter not being able to hammer nails. He practices several times a week and gets paid thousands of dollars a year to kick goals. Its his JOB!!

The only way people are going to get off his back or to stop the crowd jeers is to start putting them through. Plain and simple.

 

[StrappingTape]

As ken said it is 90% above his neck.

 

[Interstater]

Happy for him to hit Dixon on the chest 100 times next year.

 

[*PAF]

He doesn't have to be taught anything. He knows how to kick and he does Kick and he can kick it 55 metres cleanly albeit with a bit of a jilted right foot action prior to kicking.

This is a really simple issue and it is in the head

and the inability to rectify this suggests that our in the head department at the club is a fail.

Does he have any kids? maybe if he had a kid in a wife and painting to do at home and real shit like to do with that mattered rather than can you kick a ball 50 metres between 2 pieces of wood maybe then his mind would be on the spot?

Funny thing about coaching books and videos is that they concentrate so much on technique that they omit part one, balance yourself before you start.

Check videos on kicking a free in soccer and you'll hear all about the run up, leg action etc.
Watch it again and you'll see the player do a couple of steps on the spot, a small backwards step, a bit of both or something similar to balance himself before he starts the run up, ... but even though its the most important part it's taken for granted and they fail to mention it.

IMO Butcher can kick but his action has been mucked with so much that its now possibly all about part 2, the robotic technique.

Balance yourself, go through the motions and enjoy the results, good or otherwise. Rinse and repeat.
Probably why some are great at training yet muck up under pressure. Thinking too much about technique and results but fail to do what should come before that, but do instinctively when not thinking about it.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Well disagree if the data is bias but anyway, doesn't matter.

How do you explain the cheering when he field kicks then or the cheering when he misses?

I guess you could read the massive amount of talk around the stadium when he is lining up as encouragment, or discussion of how many bays either side of the point post the shot will land. That kind of talk doesn't happen for any other player.

Shows how much the poor guy has to deal with if he does have the yips. Encouragement support rather than ridicule is the best in my opinion
I would challenge anyone around me if they were doing that. He is OUR player who shows some potential and if Ken days he is working hard to improve then I believe he is. Ken seems a pretty straight bloke to me.

 

[Byrons Firen]

That roar when he dobbed it was sensational....not a bad mark either.
Cult figure
ole ole ole ole Johnny Butcher (cheer squad chant)

 

[Powerstufff]

Butch busted his guts yesterday, up and down the ground all 4 quarters. To me this reflects the way he's been developed in the SANFL this year, the way he'd been playing in the latter part of the year. If you can't kick goals at least be doing something. A bit like the GWS game, and certainly better than the Hawthorn and Gold Coast games. Schulz-like effort without Schulz's results.
One goal from (by memory) five set shots and two snaps. Two genuine goal assists, i.e. he was in control and the goal was not going to happen without him. Particularly unfortunate about the snaps, this is actually what he can do well. Also unfortunate he didn't get the crumbing opportunities that have helped him build a goal tally in SANFL games. But then maybe he was told forget sitting back waiting for those, get into the contested marks.
Yesterday leaping into packs, taking contested marks was first-rate. Traits which people have claimed for him but have never been more than spasmodic. Yesterday he did it consistently and it looked great. Janus while I am a strong supporter of your view of the magic pixie dust of 'development at AFL level' could it be that this 4 game experiment worked, albeit he is now out of contract?
Early on burnt by a teammate (O'Shea?) not wanting to pass to him, a repeat of Karl Amon avoiding him last week. But after half-time (and his goal) there was none of that.
If still on the list come next year and with a full list to pick from I'd think he'd still be an unlikely R1 inclusion. But I thought that R19 and I thought it this round too so meh!

 

[Macca19]

There is no doubt that there is a section of the crowd that takes the piss out of Butch. No doubt. I think for the most part its genuine excitement as to what might happen.

Everytime he goes near it the crowd roars BUUUTTCCCHHH. We haven't seen that with a player for ages. Those marks he took, we haven't had a key forward do that since Tredrea retired. Again, genuine excitement.

I think for the most part, the crowd is getting behind him and willing him to succeed.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Being a professional AFL footballer and not being able to kick is like a carpenter not being able to hammer nails. He practices several times a week and gets paid thousands of dollars a year to kick goals. Its his JOB!!

The only way people are going to get off his back or to stop the crowd jeers is to start putting them through. Plain and simple.

Ok so imagine you are a medical student and you are doing a medical procedure but when you do it you stuff up..say you can't get blood from a vein. So the demons in your head start to tell you you can't do it so you get more and more nervou each time you have to try even with one or two people watching you. Well Butch has not only those demoms in his head or one or two people watching , but rather thousands of fans, many of whom are his own club's fans, ridiculing and bullying and sledging him, not to mention social media and commentators. The ones who are definitely not ridiculing him are his team mates and his coaches who behind the scenes know more than we what effort he is putting in. That is a very difficult environment to get his head right. Support him. I am always excited when he is near the footy as are those around me.
It is one thing to have a collective holding of breath or a let down sigh but If there are groups of our supporters heckling and mocking him I am ashamed of those people In my opinion decent people support, not destroy. It shows emotional immaturity in fans who abuse him and don't tell me you pay your membership so you have the right. Where is it ever accepted that anyones can pay for the right to bully?