Opinion Cam Guthrie - out of form? (and tangential Supercoach as guide to form discussion)

[Art Vandelay_]

It's hard to take you serious when you've indicated that supercoach price is a valid measure of a players output... no offence.

SuperCoach prices.

Lonergan: 306.7k
Murdoch: 306.3k

 

[Eddynukes]

SuperCoach prices.

Lonergan: 306.7k
Murdoch: 306.3k

Think Murdoch is more expensive than Menegola - bring him back

 

[you pick one]

How to fix Guthrie's form:

Play.him.in.defense

Shift caddy to the inside mid role, play Guthrie off the hbf for 70% of the game on a lockdown and attacking role. It defines his role better, focuses his attention in the basics, gets him easier ball, caddy/scooter/menegola cover him well, and he can be released for fresh legs into the middle and more do towards the end of games for fresh legs.

Seems mind blowingly simple to me.

Do Scott and the MC see it? Doubtful.

Might have been simpler had Caddy been available. Lets see what they do when he's back.

 

[Rockford]

Guthrie being out of form is simply a fallacy.

I've got no issue with Guthrie being in the side still, he needs to be there personally. But surely you thought his early season form was better than his game at the moment? He'd have been in AA talks on his early season form. If he can replicate that during the Finals series then I think we're a much more dangerous prospect.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Might have been simpler had Caddy been available. Lets see what they do when he's back.

Guthrie won't play back with both Ruggles and Bews in the side, Caddy or no Caddy.

 

[Seeds]

He's had time to improve his form, multiple weeks, yet he's still struggling.

I'm not saying don't play him in finals, I'm saying put him back to the VFL to get the hunger back, the desire. That's what he's lost above all else, as well as confidence. If you're happy with what he's putting out there, you're an idiot. I count 6 games now in a row that have been below par. When does it end?

I don't worship players like many on here (including yourself seemingly), I want what's best for the team. A premiership! You see Guthrie being dropped as insulting to suggest, I see it as helping him and the team.

So, apart from the obvious (I realise Scott won't drop him, it's not his style - accepts mediocrity from certain players) are you going to explain why it's such a "laughable" suggestion? You really think we're going to get anywhere in finals with him in the midfield, or in the form he's in currently??

Why are you content to see him remain in the team in current form? Are you happy that we remain so reliant on Dangerfield and Selwood? What happens when they're unable to 'star'? We just keep carrying your boyfriend because you like the look of him?

Now, are you going to contribute, or just continue with similar off topic crap?

You put players into the vfl if they aren't good enough to be in the top 22 in a particular round. You don't put players in the vfl to get hunger back. If anything it's just as likely to make them less hungry and despondent due to the lack of faith placed in them.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I've got no issue with Guthrie being in the side still, he needs to be there personally. But surely you thought his early season form was better than his game at the moment? He'd have been in AA talks on his early season form. If he can replicate that during the Finals series then I think we're a much more dangerous prospect.

Barring last week his games against both the Dockers and Crows were better than solid.

His great games earlier in the season coincided with Dangerfield spending marginally less time in the midfield. He's form isn't as bad as we're being led to believe, but that's my opinion.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Laughable because he's improved on the previous season. Has nearly 40 coaches votes as a mid.

Everything you've just said btw reeks of "I've got nothing". been asking for weeks and you are yet to mount a compelling case.

Go back and look at my posts, there's a heap of material. Nice story though.

So by your definition, no matter how he plays other than his 7 games (less than 1/3 of a season) gathering coached votes, he's locked into the side? Stupid.

Again, I don't care. I'd be happier to see the guy perform well, I've said this again, and again, and again, and now again. But he's not. If he continues in bad form (6 games and running), why does it make sense to keep playing him? Because he did well in the first third of the year? I want YOU to justify that!

I've put down stats for weeks that suggest he's not performing. C.Scott said himself on 360 he's not performing - named him.

I think it's counter productive for team culture too. I'd rather see any player not pulling their weight dropped. We even have players knocking on the door right now, do you think it's good for them to see players not performing week after week? In Guthrie's case, he's been awful in recent weeks, not just bad... Mistake after mistake, is soft, getting frustrated, no confidence... list goes on.

Ride the #guthintheguts BS... You all got it wrong, that's right.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Go back and look at my posts, there's a heap of material. Nice story though.

So by your definition, no matter how he plays other than his 7 games (less than 1/3 of a season) gathering coached votes, he's locked into the side? Stupid.

Again, I don't care. I'd be happier to see the guy perform well, I've said this again, and again, and again, and now again. But he's not. If he continues in bad form (6 games and running), why does it make sense to keep playing him? Because he did well in the first third of the year? I want YOU to justify that!

I've put down stats for weeks that suggest he's not performing. C.Scott said himself on 360 he's not performing - named him.

I think it's counter productive for team culture too. I'd rather see any player not pulling their weight dropped. We even have players knocking on the door right now, do you think it's good for them to see players not performing week after week? In Guthrie's case, he's been awful in recent weeks, not just bad... Mistake after mistake, is soft, getting frustrated, no confidence... list goes on.

Ride the #guthintheguts BS... You all got it wrong, that's right.

Out of curiosity what's a pass mark for a typical Guthrie game?

 

[PatrickBateman]

Barring last week his games against both the Dockers and Crows were better than solid.

His great games earlier in the season coincided with Dangerfield spending marginally less time in the midfield. He's form isn't as bad as we're being led to believe, but that's my opinion.

Rubbish. His games against Sydney and the Roos were probably worse than those you've mentioned.

And my judgement is clouded? Please.

Some of you seriously just need to watch the guy around stoppages. Watch closely, watch how involved he doesn't get. I see him playing especially in at centre bounces as a complete waste. His contest possession and clearance counts are pathetic. A quality midfielder he isn't, and never will be.

Needs to be behind the ball... in more space.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Guthrie is not playing at his best but he is nowhere near being dropped.

1- there is no suitable replacement for him in the seconds.
2 - even his below par games are better than our fringe players
3 - he gives side flexibility

No doubt he needs to find form if we are going anywhere this year. But the only way he finds that form is in the firsts. Same as Motlop a month ago (who was playing much worse).

I agree with all of that.

I just think he is more likely to find that form playing in defence (and him playing that position helps the team too) but i agree dropping him isn't the solution.

 

[catempire]

Guthrie is not playing at his best but he is nowhere near being dropped.

1- there is no suitable replacement for him in the seconds.
2 - even his below par games are better than our fringe players
3 - he gives side flexibility

No doubt he needs to find form if we are going anywhere this year. But the only way he finds that form is in the firsts. Same as Motlop a month ago (who was playing much worse).

We've seen both Motlop and Hawkins come through the other side of form issues by being backed in and persisted with in the ones. How people think it will treated any differently with Blicavs and Guthrie is a mystery.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Out of curiosity what's a pass mark for a typical Guthrie game?

Think of it this way, what happens when Dangerfield and Selwood go out of the game? Who's left to win the footy? This has been our problem in nearly all our 'down' games, and is obvious to everyone now. Media finally realised too.

What was our midfield ranked last year with Guthrie playing in there full time amongst one of the best ball winners in the league (Selwood)? 18th. The worst in the AFL.

This is a genuine mistake by the club. Guthrie has been found out, and now he's lost all confidence / playing poorly. Explain how this is good?

You're all taking this as an insult because you love the player... which is your problem. Personally, winning a flag is number 1 for me. If I think we can't do it with girly Guthrie in the midfield, I'll call it out. There's only so much faith you can put in someone becoming something. The guy has had 100 games, it's time for consistency or he's out.

 

[cats_09]

You're all taking this as an insult because you love the player... which is your problem. Personally, winning a flag is number 1 for me. If I think we can't do it with girly Guthrie in the midfield, I'll call it out. There's only so much faith you can put in someone becoming something. The guy has had 100 games, it's time for consistency or he's out.

We get that you don't like Guthrie - but why start attacking him by calling him girly? Surely people in this day & age can come up with a less offensive insult than to call a male individual 'girly', which is implying that over 50% of the population have some sort of deficiency. So what makes you think it is ok to call anyone of the male sex 'girly' and not expect that you are at the same time putting down over 50% of the population?

One of the most offensive throw away lines that is used unfortunately by people of both genders is 'like a girl', implying that something is wrong with the the female population, especially with the way they participate in physical activity.

Utter bullshit of a line and a post - if you want to attack the player for his playing style than at least try to increase your vocabulary to using a smarter adjective and not some bullshit offensive line like that.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Think of it this way, what happens when Dangerfield and Selwood go out of the game? Who's left to win the footy? This has been our problem in nearly all our 'down' games, and is obvious to everyone now. Media finally realised too.

What was our midfield ranked last year with Guthrie playing in there full time amongst one of the best ball winners in the league (Selwood)? 18th. The worst in the AFL.

This is a genuine mistake by the club. Guthrie has been found out, and now he's lost all confidence / playing poorly. Explain how this is good?

You're all taking this as an insult because you love the player... which is your problem. Personally, winning a flag is number 1 for me. If I think we can't do it with girly Guthrie in the midfield, I'll call it out. There's only so much faith you can put in someone becoming something. The guy has had 100 games, it's time for consistency or he's out.

I asked a simple question and instead received a long-winded rant.

You think he's playing 'poorly,' you're wrong.

Whilst I agree I think his best position is playing as a defender, the notion that he's out of form or playing poorly is a fallacy.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Utter bullshit of a line and a post - if you want to attack the player for his playing style than at least try to increase your vocabulary to using a smarter adjective and not some bullshit offensive line like that.

I've spelled it out many times, feel free to peruse my posts. It's all there, stats, everything.

I'd say that the way he conducts himself is feminine. The hair, the time spent on his looks in general, his socks, boots, lack of intent, lack of hardness, lack of physicality, etc.

BTW bud, it's a footy forum. Save the social justice warrior / Waleed Aly tripe.

 

[PatrickBateman]

I asked a simple question and instead received a long-winded rant.

You think he's playing 'poorly,' you're wrong.

Whilst I agree I think his best position is playing as a defender, the notion that he's out of form or playing poorly is a fallacy.

Well, Chris Scott (he named Guthrie on 360 as out of form 2 weeks ago) and I disagree with you.

Seriously though, if you think he's not out of form atm, you don't understand the game in general.

I've responded to your questions, you have yet to answer any of mine.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Well, Chris Scott (he named Guthrie on 360 as out of form 2 weeks ago) and I disagree with you.

Seriously though, if you think he's not out of form atm, you don't understand the game in general.

I've responded to your questions, you have yet to answer any of mine.

You've ignored the question twice now so I'll ask again.

In your opinion what's a pass mark for a typical Guthrie game? What would satisfy you in terms of output?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I've spelled it out many times, feel free to peruse my posts. It's all there, stats, everything.

I'd say that the way he conducts himself is feminine. The hair, the time spent on his looks in general, his socks, boots, lack of intent, lack of hardness, lack of physicality, etc.

BTW bud, it's a footy forum. Save the social justice warrior / Waleed Aly tripe.

FFS you are a twit when it comes to Guthrie. Now you can't even apologise for being insulting to one gender.

 

[catempire]

I've spelled it out many times, feel free to peruse my posts. It's all there, stats, everything.

I'd say that the way he conducts himself is feminine. The hair, the time spent on his looks in general, his socks, boots, lack of intent, lack of hardness, lack of physicality, etc.

BTW bud, it's a footy forum. Save the social justice warrior / Waleed Aly tripe.

Nope.

In the day and age where we have a National Women's Australian Football competition, there is no place for derogatory use of female synonyms to describe male players you perceive to be soft.

Leave it out.

 

[Catastic82]

I've spelled it out many times, feel free to peruse my posts. It's all there, stats, everything.

I'd say that the way he conducts himself is feminine. The hair, the time spent on his looks in general, his socks, boots, lack of intent, lack of hardness, lack of physicality, etc.

BTW bud, it's a footy forum. Save the social justice warrior / Waleed Aly tripe.

.......Rightio lol

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

It's not just the world that's gone made.

 

[Rockford]

I think Guthrie has to play when we get Caddy back. It could be something as simple as Caddy and he having an understanding of their roles around the contest when they're both there. I think dropping Guthrie when we bring Caddy back in would be a mistake. We need both of them in there and our midfield unit working as just that, a unit, together as a team. Caddy is more important to our structure, I think, than given credit for.

 

[JUBJUB]

I'd say that the way he conducts himself is feminine. The hair, the time spent on his looks in general, his socks, boots

So you'd prefer the male model look would you ?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

So you'd prefer the male model look would you ?

Why not.....