Can CC be sacked??

[Freo Shark]

I agree. And the man that could do wonders for this list would be one D. Pagan.

What alot of you supporters are missing is there isnt a Pagan, a Sheedy, a Matthews, a Wallace or Eade available they're all on contract for next year or dont have any interest in coming to WA.

Who do you want to try another assistant - they're pretty much a lottery.

 

[pav_is_god]

What alot of you supporters are missing is there isnt a Pagan, a Sheedy, a Matthews, a Wallace or Eade available they're all on contract for next year or dont have any interest in coming to WA.

Who do you want to try another assistant - they're pretty much a lottery.

I wouldn't be happy hiring an untried person as senior coach, because as you said you could get end up with the next Sheedy or the next Drum. If Pagan isn't available, then there's always Blight...

 

[jarman]

Forget about any new coach or dreams of Freo being a power in the comp. The board want CC to be there until 2007/2008 regardless of where Freo finish.

 

[tico]

geez i hope not even though its a possibilty , how long do us members have to suffer. we have had it hard for a long time

 

[Ripper]

geez i hope not even though its a possibilty , how long do us members have to suffer. we have had it hard for a long time

10 years worth hey! None of which can be blamed on the current Playing group/Admin/Coaching staff.

Instead of dwelling on the negatives focus on how far we have come in the last 3 1/2 years and how much the bar has been raised (The bar has been raised a bit too far IMO by our jagging 14 wins in the 2003 season).

 

[tico]

granted ripper but its been 10 years all the same , i think we have paid our dues in a weird sort of way as supporters, we do deserve success. although i hope we don't have to wait as long as other teams

 

[Ripper]

i think we have paid our dues in a weird sort of way as supporters, we do deserve success.

Don't I know it. But if you sit back and look at it objectively You can see what he is up to.

2002 brought in a couple of "stars" in Croad & Farmer plus a few GOP's.
Picked up a squad with an all time low confidence level enough to win some home games (including a couple of big scalps) but it was enough to get the ball rolling and start getting us out of debt.

2003 Helped by a good draw we won all our home games and a few away against non contenders (although the win against the Roos at the MCG was ahighlight to me).

This continued putting us back in the black financially.
At the same time Swabby & CC were pensioning off players who would play no part in the long term future and getting the Salary Cap back in order.

At the end of 2003 we invested heavily in youth (Dunn . Murphy , Mundy , Campbell Peake & Johnson) that would have no imediate input and could be left to develop in the WAFL unlike Pav , Hase , JLo Etc who I beleive are still a bit shellshocked through being thrown in the deep end to early and too often.

We are just seeing the very start of some of that 2003 talent for the future coming good.

2004 We recruited a couple of hard nosed premiership players (Schofield was a bit of a mystery to me ) and Heath Black back to help give some more guidence to the young fellows.

We then had a concentrated effort to turn our pathetic away record around which finished up in the top 3 (only just behind Port & Brisbane) in the AFL.

All the time we have been investing heavily in the Rookie draft turn some rough diamonds into good players to bolster the depth of our list which for the first time in our history we actually have some depth.

What sort of state would we have been in even last year missing the amount of players that we have been so far this year?

When you consider where we have come from & where we are now He has done a remarkable job especially since we have been bottom four in the football department stakes down with the Roo's & Bulldogs.

It would be a hell shame to shoot ourselves in the foot by being frustrated (and I get as frustrated as anyone) at the lack of instant gratification.

As a footnote I doubt if any experienced Coach would take the job as it is without doubt the worst Coaching job in the AFL.

 

[wehavethepassion]

.

As a footnote I doubt if any experienced Coach would take the job as it is without doubt the worst Coaching job in the AFL.

Why? we have supposedly a great list, in the black financially and second to none facilities.

Also ripper the coach has admitted we lack pace in the midfield after he instigated along with his best mate the recruiting of josh, blacky and I too wonder why we got schofield.

 

[Jetau]

I remember in the early days of CC at Freo, he said he had the most exciting job in football. Well he hasn't being saying that lately. I don't really know who should get the job, I just think CC has had his chance and it should be someone else's turn.

Ripper, you are clearly the staunchest supporter going around, but CC doesn't deserve your support. He is ruining our team.

 

[Ripper]

Why? we have supposedly a great list, in the black financially and second to none facilities.

Thanks to who?
No other coach or team is under as much scrutiny as ours particularly when the mob up the road are doing well.
The Mostly WCE Media were sticking the boots in last year when we were sixth for goodness sakes.
And what annoys me is that our own supporters treat it as gospel because they heard it on the radio or read it in the paper.

Didn't hear all the doom and gloom about WCE when they were 4-7 at the break last year.

This year we have amongst the dis-appointments have genuinely beaten 2 top 4 sides on their own dunghill for the first time ever.

Don't dare to try and tell me that that is not progress.

Also ripper the coach has admitted we lack pace in the midfield after he instigated along with his best mate the recruiting of josh, blacky and I too wonder why we got schofield.

Bravo, I don't suppose the lack of Walker , Hayden , Schammer, Headland and even Macpharlin has anything to do with our lack of pace in the midfield?

Are you saying Josh Carr and Heath Black are no good?

Most teams only have a couple of speedsters.

The same midfield that even lacking that pace at the moment
goes alright on the smaller grounds in Victoria?

At the very least we are not the butt of jokes when we go east now.

You blokes can't see the wood for the tree's.

 

[Ripper]

He is ruining our team.

The same team that he built? Give me a break.

 

[Ripper]

Why? we have supposedly a great list, in the black financially and second to none facilities.

Also ripper the coach has admitted we lack pace in the midfield after he instigated along with his best mate the recruiting of josh, blacky and I too wonder why we got schofield.

Not to mention the countless Eagles supporters (and a few of our own that reckon 10 years is too long) take a corncerned interest in all things Freo and ring Talkback Radio to offer their un-informed opinions.

 

[wehavethepassion]

Ripper never said they were no good and by the way when did Mcpharlin play in the midfield? Hedland has been played up forward, Schammer is carrying an injury that needs an op, Hayden was in the back pocket and Jimmy has been making himself a name in the back half.

As for Josh & Blacky coupled with Belly, haze & cookie. All very good players Where is the speed? Also


Sam mitchell is a ball magnet that ain't super quick but he is surround by fast players.

The slime up the road have stenglein as the slow one but Cousins, Fletcher,Judd, Kerr are quick

 

[Ripper]

Ripper never said they were no good and by the way when did Mcpharlin play in the midfield? Hedland has been played up forward, Schammer is carrying an injury that needs an op, Hayden was in the back pocket and Jimmy has been making himself a name in the back half.

I think you will find that the Backlines and forward lines overlap considerably in the modern game. The midfield these days encompasses just about everywhere with defenders running through the middle and frowards working up the ground to defend.

As for Josh & Blacky coupled with Belly, haze & cookie. All very good players Where is the speed?

Agree of course, that is why we are missing the pace of Walker, & Headland & Co. Blackie is not that slow though. You look at Port last year and the only fast midfielder they had was Peter Burgoyne.

CC may have gone a bit too far in getting the mix right for Victoria.

Also
Sam mitchell is a ball magnet that ain't super quick but he is surround by fast players.

The slime up the road have stenglein as the slow one but Cousins, Fletcher,Judd, Kerr are quick

True , The Hawks are optimised for Subiaco more than we are at the moment. Add back in a couple of pacy players and with the defense bolstered so we have more rebound and things will be different.

And the Slime still have a big drop off in form when they are on smaller grounds.

 

[Exeter]

Ripper, even you would have to admit that he's getting harder to defend with every performance like that.

Anyway, you can't sack a coach that has the team hovering on the edge of the 8.

You'll have to wait for the arse to completely fall out before you make that move.

 

[big buddy38]

Tell that to Stan Alves, Ron Alexander, Allan Joyce and probably a few others, Exeter.
The big question is whether CC has lost the faith of his leading players. If he hasn't lost them then he's got a good chance to prove himself as a coach in the second half of the season.

 

[Exeter]

The big question is whether CC has lost the faith of his leading players. If he hasn't lost them then he's got a good chance to prove himself as a coach in the second half of the season.

On the money.

And if he has lost their attention and respect, then he's a lame duck.

 

[Ripper]

On the money.

And if he has lost their attention and respect, then he's a lame duck.

If that was the case we would be consistantly crap. It has probably more to do with the injury list ATM.

How well would WCE be going if they had had Glass for only one and a bit games this year and not had Wirrapunda at all?

 

[dominguez]

Contracts don't mean anything any more whether there is an out clause or not. Judge had a year to run on his contract when he left both hawthorn and wet toast, as did Wallace when he left the dogs and Malthouse when he left the egos. Our problem if the second half of our season does go pear shaped is that the board will really want to give CC another chance since he was so recently reappointed. If there is no out clause then Schwabb and Rick Hart will have to go if CC does because their haste in extending his contract will cost the club $600,000+. Because of this I think if we get 10 or more wins CC will be our coach next year.

If we are looking for a new coach in 3 months time I think we will have to go for an inexperienced coach. All 15 other coaches are currently contracted for 2006 and I can't see any of them performing so poorly that they will be sacked, and there aren't any experienced coaches out there who IMHO could come in and do the job. I don't think Gary Ayres is a good option and the rest are too old and too far removed from modern football. Of the assistants whose names have been thrown about I don't like Sumich, I don't rate McKenna, and I don't think Carey would be interested (which is a good thing). Michael Broadbridge came to the club with a big reputation and has handled himself well so should be considered. I don't rate any of our other assisstants especially Malaxos who looks way too relaxed. I agree with big buddy 38 about Mark Harvey. He comes across as a real goose in his weekly spot on foxtel and I can understand why nobody has given him an opportunity. Buddha Hocking hasn't been an assistant at AFL level so isn't ready. A dark horse would be Libba. Whatever you thought of him as a footballer he always put the team first and would do anything to win. And the odd squirrel grip would keep the media onside.

It's currently too early to write off 2005 and start shopping for a new coach but the signs haven't been good. The fact that we are so up and down and only perform when our backs are against the wall suggests that the players have to motivate themselves and CC isn't doing his job. There are far too many early draft picks on our list, many of them now above the 100 game mark, to be wallowing in the bottom half of the table. While Connolly deserves to be congratulated for improving membership and merchandise sales I think the improved performance onfield had more to do with that than his personality. Hopefully I'm proven wrong and CC still has the belief of the players, and the second half of our season is much better than the first half. After 10 years of grief I know we certainly deserve it!

 

[dominguez]

If that was the case we would be consistantly crap. It has probably more to do with the injury list ATM.

How well would WCE be going if they had had Glass for only one and a bit games this year and not had Wirrapunda at all?

Ripper- While your loyalty is commendable and as recently as the lead up to the hawthorn game I shared your optimism, I think our up and down form is more of a concern than if we were consistently crap. Obviously we have some quality players out (as do all teams) but why would that affect us against the hawks and lions but not against geelong? To me this suggests that the message from Connolly isn't getting through and the players have to get themselves up mentally. Our problem is between the ears. You can tell within the first 10 minutes of a Freo game whether we are going to have a red hot go or put in a performance not worthy of WAFL reserves.

Hopefully your faith is rewarded Ripper, as your loyalty and football knowledge can't be questioned, and we start seeing the best of the Fremantle Football Club on a consistent basis.

 

[Ripper]

Ripper- While your loyalty is commendable and as recently as the lead up to the hawthorn game I shared your optimism, I think our up and down form is more of a concern than if we were consistently crap. Obviously we have some quality players out (as do all teams) but why would that affect us against the hawks and lions but not against geelong? To me this suggests that the message from Connolly isn't getting through and the players have to get themselves up mentally. Our problem is between the ears.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

The players (Senior players especially) should be able to get themselves up with little or no encouragement.

You can tell within the first 10 minutes of a Freo game whether we are going to have a red hot go or put in a performance not worthy of WAFL reserves.

Thats where they got us Saturday night. I thought we started quite well and was getting ready to celebrate.

The hawks game was a shocker but all teams generally put in at least one of those a season.

If it wasn't for the Hawks game we would not be judging them so harshly on this one which was 400% better than the Hawks game. We were after all in with a chance and starting to come strongly in the last quarter until Schoie coughed the ball up.

Hopefully your faith is rewarded Ripper, as your loyalty and football knowledge can't be questioned, and we start seeing the best of the Fremantle Football Club on a consistent basis.

I am here for the long term and I can actually see that there is a lot of work to do yet.

Unfortunately the Magic wand is in for repairs so we are going to have to do it the hard way.

 

[Exeter]

There are three possibilities for the Dockers under Connolly for the rest of this season and the next, all of them blindingly obvious:

1. they will steadily improve and become a regular top eight / top 4 team and look to challenge for a flag or

2. they will continue to do what they've been doing for most of last season and all of this season i.e. show glimpses of what they're capable of but never really stringing it together long enough to develop critical mass and momentum or

3. the arse will drop right out and they crash into the bottom 8 with a resounding thud.

Three things will determine which way they go: injuries and depth, which every club has to contend with, and:

Quality of coaching and leadership, and the ability of the coaching staff to provide the focus, discipline, self belief, strategies and tactics needed to take them all the way.

There's a time limit on the last point which may extend up to around 5 years. If a team doesn't seem to be making headway consistently or worse, goes backwards (notwithstanding injuries) then the players tend to lose faith in the coach and once that happens it's very difficult for coaches to recover. (Sheedy seems to be the modern exception to the rule).

Freo has the squad, but where are they at with their coach and how long has he got to get results?

Anything less than a top 8 finish this year would have to be unacceptable.

 

[Undertaker]

There are three possibilities for the Dockers under Connolly for the rest of this season and the next, all of them blindingly obvious:

1. they will steadily improve and become a regular top eight / top 4 team and look to challenge for a flag or

2. they will continue to do what they've been doing for most of last season and all of this season i.e. show glimpses of what they're capable of but never really stringing it together long enough to develop critical mass and momentum or

3. the arse will drop right out and they crash into the bottom 8 with a resounding thud.

Three things will determine which way they go: injuries and depth, which every club has to contend with, and:

Quality of coaching and leadership, and the ability of the coaching staff to provide the focus, discipline, self belief, strategies and tactics needed to take them all the way.

There's a time limit on the last point which may extend up to around 5 years. If a team doesn't seem to be making headway consistently or worse, goes backwards (notwithstanding injuries) then the players tend to lose faith in the coach and once that happens it's very difficult for coaches to recover. (Sheedy seems to be the modern exception to the rule).

Freo has the squad, but where are they at with their coach and how long has he got to get results?

Anything less than a top 8 finish this year would have to be unacceptable.

I agree anything less than a top 8 finish is unacceptable NO Excuses.
Thanks for the post Exeter

 

[dugrene]

Like i'v said I'm ambivalent about CC as coach.

He said when he was appointed, 5 years for succes. He has said some of theses players will be together for upwards of 8 years.

I consider him a reasonably successful coach so far.

Who gave him credit for the wins at MCG and SS. The same people who pillory him for home losses ?

we are 3.5 years of 5 gone. He is a man. I take him at his word. I have never seen anything deceptive about him. To my knowledge he doesnt lie and cheat. So I will not (yet) join the chorus to have him removed. Why should I ? In my eyes he has until this time next year.

In the mean time i'll always be a moderate.

 

[Seadog]

I would vomit if we got Walls. Lets wait till seasons end before heads roll. Who knows what could happen.

As far as i know there's a clause in CC's contract that if he's sacked he doesn't get paid out. I've still got big aspirations for this season, its still too early in the to tell how it will pan out.

A contract where you can be sacked without being paid out is not a contract at all but a device to keep the media off your back. I can't believe CC would be stupid enough to sign such a contract.