Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[matey]

You know it's been a good run when people are making a big deal that you lost a game.

You are right ..... Richmond’s good run of 2 premierships in 4 decades is undeniable!

l will give the Tigers and Hardwick a lot of credit. Usually when a side has a new strategy and system that delivers success it takes other sides a year to work them out. It’s taken 3 years! Will be interesting if Dimma and Tigers have a plan B.

 

[Pessimistic]

Plan B is dusty

 

[iameviljez]

So the mighty Tigers, current premiers go down in history as the team that was beaten by the oldest ever ..... add that to your stats!

And for all that, if they hadn't undergone a monumental choke in 2018, they should have won three in a row.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

And for all that, if they hadn't undergone a monumental choke in 2018, they should have won three in a row.

And if Geelong don’t throw away a half time lead maybe they only have one flag, that’s footy.

 

[matey]

And for all that, if they hadn't undergone a monumental choke in 2018, they should have won three in a row.

If Buddy kicked straight Hawks would have won 4 in a row! If’s mean nothing. And was it a choke or Collingwood/Buck’s are one of those teams that has found a way to negate the Tigers pressure, ballistic style of play?

 

[iameviljez]

If Buddy kicked straight Hawks would have won 4 in a row! If’s mean nothing. And was it a choke or Collingwood/Buck’s are one of those teams that has found a way to negate the Tigers pressure, ballistic style of play?

IMO, much like us in 2008, it was a bit of both. All the stars had to align, and they did.

The point of the "if" was to point out that for all of the poo-pooing of Richmond as not being a great side (which does happen a fair bit), in all likelihood one poor half of football cost them a spot alongside Brisbane as a three-peating great finals team.

 

[iameviljez]

And if Geelong don’t throw away a half time lead maybe they only have one flag, that’s footy.

The one key difference I'd point out there is that they were the better side all year. We didn't choke so much as that they just stepped up a gear and we could not go with them.

 

[Joao]

If Buddy kicked straight Hawks would have won 4 in a row! If’s mean nothing. And was it a choke or Collingwood/Buck’s are one of those teams that has found a way to negate the Tigers pressure, ballistic style of play?

3 in 4 because if we kicked straight we win in 2013.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

The one key difference I'd point out there is that they were the better side all year. We didn't choke so much as that they just stepped up a gear and we could not go with them.

They finished 3rd on % so not the clear best, although they did have a lot of injuries.
Again same can be said Adelaide were the clear best in 2017 but choked. Funny that similar to Hawthorn in 2012, our most dominant season was the one we didn’t win the flag in, like 2018 Richmond.

 

[iameviljez]

hey finished 3rd on % so not the clear best, although they did have a lot of injuries.

They were certainly better than us. We absolutely limped to the finish line and were only on top because we outperformed ourselves for the first half of the year.

 

[juss]

You are right ..... Richmond’s good run of 2 premierships in 4 decades is undeniable!

come on matey.....

No one's living in the past, we as Tiger fans know full well how shit we were for 30 years, its irrelevant to the great achievements of the past 3 years. 2 flags and 6 finals appearances over the last 8 years. Its been a great period. Again, you know you've had a good run when people can only bag you on how shit you used to be years ago...

 

[matey]

come on matey.....

No one's living in the past, we as Tiger fans know full well how sh*t we were for 30 years, its irrelevant to the great achievements of the past 3 years. 2 flags and 6 finals appearances over the last 8 years. Its been a great period. Again, you know you've had a good run when people can only bag you on how sh*t you used to be years ago...

Tigers were the laughing stock for decades and that memory can never be erased. However recently you have had a great period and glad to see the joy for some of my close Tiger mates ..... and it still hasn’t finished!

 

[MinerBoy]

3 in 4 because if we kicked straight we win in 2013.

Big stretch. At no stage in that game did Freo ever actually look like winning.

 

[Joao]

Big stretch. At no stage in that game did Freo ever actually look like winning.

No ****, because we kicked like peasants when we had the chance, hence the comment.

 

[MinerBoy]

No ****, because we kicked like peasants when we had the chance, hence the comment.

Which is a massive stretch to say we kick straight we win, hence the comment.

Always at arms length and never seriously threatened. Even when you challenged briefly and got close it always felt like we were just doing enough, then the Hawks went bang and game over. Few goals late made is appear closer than it was.

 

[Joao]

Which is a massive stretch to say we kick straight we win, hence the comment.

Always at arms length and never seriously threatened. Even when you challenged briefly and got close it always felt like we were just doing enough, then the Hawks went bang and game over. Few goals late made is appear closer than it was.

Are you that insecure that a simple hypothetical challenges you? Don't worry, doesn't matter what anyone on here says they are not changing the record books.

It was 16 scoring shots to 16 scoring shots at 3qt and finished 22 to 22. I don't think it takes a lot of mental effort to imagine how the result could easily have been 5 goals different IF the goal kicking accuracy was different - which was the entire point I was making.

 

[MinerBoy]

Are you that insecure that a simple hypothetical challenges you? Don't worry, doesn't matter what anyone on here says they are not changing the record books.

It was 16 scoring shots to 16 scoring shots at 3qt and finished 22 to 22. I don't think it takes a lot of mental effort to imagine how the result could easily have been 5 goals different IF the goal kicking accuracy was different - which was the entire point I was making.

Interesting take but I am actually challenging you, not feeling challenged. You said - we kick straight we win.

A hypothetical would be "we kick straight we may have won....", which you now seem to be going with.

It's not a statement of fact as you framed it. Not even the likely outcome.

 

[Joao]

Interesting take but I am actually challenging you, not feeling challenged. You said - we kick straight we win.

A hypothetical would be "we kick straight we may have won....", which you now seem to be going with.

It's not a statement of fact as you framed it. Not even the likely outcome.

It was one frigging sentence and you have read this much into it? Again please refer my first sentence in last post.

But if you can't help yourself,

You think I was stating facts when clearly talking about a hypothetical and it clearly is, because history shows we didn't kick straight therefore I couldn't possibly have thought I was stating a fact because I know it not to be the case. In order for it to be a fact, I would have to know what happens in that alternate universe and thought I was relaying that information. Which, I think we can all agree, is not what I was doing.

Not only that, we objectively had more shots on goal than you did as we kicked at least 2 OOB and if memory serves several more shots that didn't score.

Also, to issue the challenge, you felt the challenge. If you just recognised it for what it was you would just let it go like most would.

 

[MinerBoy]

Lol Jesus


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[Furn2]

Are you that insecure that a simple hypothetical challenges you? Don't worry, doesn't matter what anyone on here says they are not changing the record books.

It was 16 scoring shots to 16 scoring shots at 3qt and finished 22 to 22. I don't think it takes a lot of mental effort to imagine how the result could easily have been 5 goals different IF the goal kicking accuracy was different - which was the entire point I was making.

You could argue 6 of those scoring shots were in junk time when the game was over.

 

[hk89]

Don't want to hijack this into a Richmond thread, but really?
Is losing one match from your last 14 or so now considered being "worked out" or "back to the pack"?

Hasn't every other side been "worked out" this year then? And fallen back to said pack?

It was a terrific win by the Hawks, but I think you've gone early writing off the Tiges....

Possibly. You're right, 2 poor games in a row with only 5 goals scored in each - one without your best player, and the other you didn't actually lose - isn't a big sample size. It is more about how those games unfolded. Seems your usual game plan had been thwarted. Perhaps just a side effect of having a high intensity game plan and the unusual circumstances leaving you underdone and so unable to execute. Obviously if it keeps happening as the season progresses, tigers fans will have more reason for concern.

 

[satadaynitefeva]

Can Hawthorn succeed while Essendon are ignoring the elite end of covid 19 Restrictions??

 

[hk89]

It was 16 scoring shots to 16 scoring shots at 3qt and finished 22 to 22. I don't think it takes a lot of mental effort to imagine how the result could easily have been 5 goals different IF the goal kicking accuracy was different - which was the entire point I was making.

It doesn't take much mental effort to work out including rushed behinds in scoring shots and saying scoring shots were even is a stupid thing to do.

You had 3 rushed behinds to our 1. This means that if every behind you kicked was a goal, and every behind we kicked was a goal, we still win. Stupid theory ends here.

BTW the same is true in 2008. A lot of talk of Geelong's inaccuracy, but at the end of the day if both sides kick all their points as goals in that game, Hawthorn still win that one too.

After 2012 hawthorn put a lot of effort into improving their goal accuracy in pressure situations. We also had a game plan that tried to put a lot of pressure on opposition, which tended to produce inaccuracy for our opponents. So even if you were right about equal scoring shots, which you are not, you are basically saying, if Hawthorn were worse at two things they worked hard at being really good at - accuracy in front of goals and putting pressure on opposition forwards - you might have had a chance. The best you can take out of that game is that you held us to our worst grand final performance of the 3-peat. While you did look nervous in front of goals, I'd suggest we were fairly nervous too. Losing a GF as favourite and going into another a year later as favourite probably contributed to that. Our best grand finals from 2008-2015 were when we went in against highly rated opponents. Some people use that as a slight on the site "Often not even the best side of the year" is a common criticism, in my book, the mindset to come out and dismantled highly favoured opposition is one of the things that made that side great.

 

[hk89]

Can Hawthorn succeed while Essendon are ignoring the elite end of covid 19 Restrictions??

Essendon first club to experiment with Trump's controversial 'inject disinfectant' treatment method. Records of whether they were using pine-o-clean or white king mysteriously misplaced.

 

[WWSD]

Can Hawthorn succeed while Essendon are ignoring the elite end of covid 19 Restrictions??

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