Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[kickazz]

Tanking. Punish them with at least a decade of trips to Kardinia Park.

 

[footyfan1978]

Wingard unfortunately wouldn’t get us more than pick 30 imo, even if he has a decent 2023. He’s too injury prone. If he was able to play 50/50 fwd mid for a whole season he could be an elite player. We needed to trade him 2 years ago, like Mitchell, Gunston and O’Meara. This year was too late

Actually you needed to not trade for him initially which was where you went wrong. Was just the wrong fit at wrong time for where Hawks were.
I think they were open to trading him late in trade period last year when they finally accepted they never should have had him in first place but could not find the right fit with other clubs which probably suggests he being overpaid and other clubs did not want to take that on board and they left it all too late for clubs to make space for in their cap. If they can re-do the mix of what paid after 2023 with another club and he has a quality 2023 season a top 20 pick is not out of the question. If he only has one more season on contract it would be better. Someone like Sydney may be willing to do it if want another small forward in 2023 and they all out for premiership tilt.

 

[footyfan1978]

Tanking. Punish them with at least a decade of trips to Kardinia Park.

I'm all for that, so the league can free up Easter Monday for big clashes in coming seasons for teams in contention.

 

[Bradkli]

Is Sicilly captain?

Sicily will be captain. We don’t have many others. Blake Hardwick would be a great choice as well, but I would be surprised if Sicily didn’t get the nod.

 

[HairyO]

Tanking. Punish them with at least a decade of trips to Kardinia Park.

Ive been twice and we won both games by 2 points.

Id be okay with that.

 

[nelk boys]

Sicily will be captain. We don’t have many others. Blake Hardwick would be a great choice as well, but I would be surprised if Sicily didn’t get the nod.

If you had been to training, you would know Hardwick isn't really a leader.

Sure, may lead by his actions. But has never embraced or encouraged any leadership skills.

That's not the sort of person he is. Very quiet. Just get's his own role done.

 

[hawkman]

So are Hawthorn now younger than Essendon. I know before trade period We were touted as having the youngest list but Hawthorn now are damn young.

We are 0.6 years younger than anyone else according to here

AFL Club Lists for 2023 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[Bradkli]

If you had been to training, you would know Hardwick isn't really a leader.

Sure, may lead by his actions. But has never embraced or encouraged any leadership skills.

That's not the sort of person he is. Very quiet. Just get's his own role done.

Sometimes the best leaders lead by actions not with words.

With the group we have, we need someone that can do both. Whilst Sicily can be hot headed at times, he’s the right person for the job.

I think josh ward and will day have the potential to be future captains once Sicily hangs up the boots in 4-5 years time.

 

[nelk boys]

Sometimes the best leaders lead by actions not with words.

With the group we have, we need someone that can do both. Whilst Sicily can be hot headed at times, he’s the right person for the job.

I think josh ward and will day have the potential to be future captains once Sicily hangs up the boots in 4-5 years time.

You just proved my point. Cheers

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If you had been to training, you would know Hardwick isn't really a leader.

Sure, may lead by his actions. But has never embraced or encouraged any leadership skills.

That's not the sort of person he is. Very quiet. Just get's his own role done.

100%.

Sicily will be captain. Moore and Lewis would likely be vice captains if we have them, but that might not eventuate with the current leadership structure.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I'm all for that, so the league can free up Easter Monday for big clashes in coming seasons for teams in contention.

Easter Monday has been such a good game for so many years, even this year Geelong were by far the best team and won the flag & Hawthorn had upset them in an absolute thriller.

No chance.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

100%.

Sicily will be captain. Moore and Lewis would likely be vice captains if we have them, but that might not eventuate with the current leadership structure.

I've been beyond impressed with Lewis's leadership, he is def someone who is a shoe in for it, same with Moore & Morrison (to a lower extent in the leadership group), you'd suspect Wingard is in that group & Worpel would be up there in the Vice Captain race, but needs a very big pre season.

Sicily is the easiest and best choice for captain, when he did it at stages in 2022 he played better than without it, he embraces it, walks higher and makes others walk higher with it, he talks well, he leads by voice, standards and by actions.

Bring on 2023.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

We are 0.6 years younger than anyone else according to here

AFL Club Lists for 2023 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Age and experience are usually good barometers for the expected good sides.
Geelong, Richmond and Melbourne occupy 3 of the 5 oldest average age lists.

Dogs and West Coast the other two. Alarm bells if they miss finals.
I do expect an upturn from the Eagles next year. That covid shit hit them hard early. But probably not to a finals position.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Age and experience are usually good barometers for the expected good sides.
Geelong, Richmond and Melbourne occupy 3 of the 5 oldest average age lists.

Dogs and West Coast the other two. Alarm bells if they miss finals.
I do expect an upturn from the Eagles next year. That covid s**t cactus them hard early. But probably not to a finals position.

No? West Coast's list seriously sucks, especially with so many older experienced injury prone players.

They'll be a lock for the bottom 4.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

October 22, 2020

Our key position players heading into 2021:

O’Brien
Patton
Lewis
Hartley
Frost
Hartigan
Jeka
Mcevoy
Koschitzke

With a ruck division of:

Ceglar
Reeves

That is by far the worst in the AFL and arguably the worst in modern AFL/VFL history. There is not a single player on that list that would get a game for any other club next season other than maybe mitch lewis. We will have 7 or 8 of them playing round 1 next season....

If our supporters can still honestly answer “yes” with a straight face to the question in this thread they may as well stop following footy.

Whilst I believe things can change very quickly, like we have seen with the Tigers recently, I just don’t see it with our current list.

We need to cop that we will be bottom 4 or 5 for at least the next 2-3 seasons and hit the draft hard. We are no longer a destination club and Clarko and co need to finally accept that and change their strategy.

April 11, 2021

As I’ve been saying for last 3+ years...Tim O’Brien would have been delisted at just about any other club..Adelaide and north Melbourne included...he is the exact definition of where our list is at..a complete and utter list clogger

Clarkson for the past 2-3 seasons continues to pick sides that he thinks can get cheap wins, when deep down he knows how bad his team is...it’s like clockwork..

after hearing him speak pre-season, he finally admitted we couldn’t play finals this season and we are rebuilding, yet he continues to pick players like O’Brien, ceglar, Hartley, Burgoyne, Daniel Howe. There wouldn’t be a side in the league with a worse bottom 5 players that get to play just about every week. We go into every game now, knowing exactly what will happen when those players play.

It’s the same as our supporters that continue to try and justify our trading in of O'meara and wingard...straight out of the Clarko book...we are going to be a bottom 4-5 side with them for the next 2-3 years....that’s 50+ games we could have got into 4+ talented youngsters at least.


April 18, 2021

Love reading our board that I was banned from 18 months ago because “I’m a Geelong troll”...every single post I’ve made on this thread for the past two years has legitimately happened and gets written about now on a weekly basis...

incredible to think that the majority of our supporters actually thought things were not that bad...even more amazing is they probably still think we are a chance at playing finals in 3 years time...we are a lock for bottom 4-5 this season and next and a good chance in 2023...bookmark this!!

We are not improving whilst players like Tim O’Brien, Shaun Burgoyne, Daniel howe, Kyle hartigan, Connor Nash, Jonathan ceglar and Tom Phillips continue to play on a regular basis.

O'Brien is on the dogs list is he not so they must rate him. I don't disagree that he is a spud. Some of this hyperbole that your rehashing is completely over the top nonsense. Worst group of key talls on a list in history? I mean that's just a pisstake let's be honest. You never post on the Hawks board for good reason. You mix semblance of good points with absolute garbage nonsense exaggerations which rightly get mocked. And now you want to be vindicated because you predicted we were going to be shit 5 years ago like a true blue Hawthorn supporter should conduct themselves on a public forum. I'm only going to respond this one time because I'll just get " You are one of the deluded ones who thought we had a good list" in reply. Stop sprouting crap or go to the bay 13 board and go for your life.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

The irony is Bradkli wasn’t baiting anyone.

A stack of misguided Hawks supporters took issue with his prophetic statements and couldn’t deal with his less than rosy outlook.

Now he’s been vindicated his expulsion from the Hawthorn board looks very petty.

He had a negative outlook when we were winning flags numptie that's the point. Deliberately trying to stir the pot on a regular basis. Now because he can't do it on his own teams board he is looking for like minded mates on here who don't care for the Hawthorn Football Club so he can continue to bait and gloat. He isn't a true supporter and should never claim to be.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

If you had been to training, you would know Hardwick isn't really a leader.

Sure, may lead by his actions. But has never embraced or encouraged any leadership skills.

That's not the sort of person he is. Very quiet. Just get's his own role done.

You can be a leader through your actions. Usually flys the flag on the field for his team mates and is physical when he needs to be. Will be definitely in the leadership group.

 

[HairyO]

He had a negative outlook when we were winning flags numptie that's the point. Deliberately trying to stir the pot on a regular basis. Now because he can't do it on his own teams board he is looking for like minded mates on here who don't care for the Hawthorn Football Club so he can continue to bait and gloat. He isn't a true supporter and should never claim to be.

I always figured he is a Cats fan having fun trolling.

 

[QuietB]

They were so adamant they could top up with a couple of players and everything would be OK because "premiership players". As though Ben Stratton and Matt Suckling and Taylor Duyrea are the nucleus of a great side.

Post 2015, Hawthorn's AA selections were Rioli (2016), Gunston (2018), Breust (2018) + Mitchell (2017/18) who was traded in.

Compare that to Geelong (who are the top-up benchmark) after 2011 and they had Hawkins, Taylor, Mackie, Selwood, Enright make it, then Stewart, Guthrie, Kelly, Blicavs who they drafted, Dangerfield, Cameron, Stengle who they brought in. Daylight in terms of top end talent still on the list and brought in by various means.

Mitchell was a great trade which worked out for all parties. O'Meara was OK but due to Tony Cochrane they overpaid and the only winner was St Kilda. Wasting cap space on Scully, Vickery, Patton, giving up assets for Wingard... yuck. The worst outcome came to bear, that is topping up to be a middling side going nowhere only to then fall off a cliff anyway.

Using AA’s is a bit unreliable - Geelong have a contract for 4 guaranteed AA’s a year

 

[What is a cakewalk]

Can we please close thread or at least change title? The answer was no, and now it's just people talking shit or discussing other things.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Actually you needed to not trade for him initially which was where you went wrong. Was just the wrong fit at wrong time for where Hawks were.
I think they were open to trading him late in trade period last year when they finally accepted they never should have had him in first place but could not find the right fit with other clubs which probably suggests he being overpaid and other clubs did not want to take that on board and they left it all too late for clubs to make space for in their cap. If they can re-do the mix of what paid after 2023 with another club and he has a quality 2023 season a top 20 pick is not out of the question. If he only has one more season on contract it would be better. Someone like Sydney may be willing to do it if want another small forward in 2023 and they all out for premiership tilt.

Actually, GWS offered Pick 13 for him just last year. Thing is, Wingard wanted to stay. Can't do much if the player is not interested in leaving (which he was quite public about the whole time).

 

[HairyO]

Can we please close thread or at least change title? The answer was no, and now it's just people talking s**t or discussing other things.

Since 2019...

 

[TylerDurden]

Average age of the list is now 22. The youngest in the comp by 2 years. Have we answered the question now?

 

[STPer18]

Average age of the list is now 22. The youngest in the comp by 2 years. Have we answered the question now?

Too young, should trade out early draft picks for some mature types.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Average age of the list is now 22. The youngest in the comp by 2 years. Have we answered the question now?

Not yet, it's still hard for me to imagine not being bottom 4 cellar dwellers at least next season.
Mitch Lewis and Jai Newcombe aside, I am not if Hawthorn have an A Grade young talent on their list.
But I have underestimated Hawthorn FC many times in my lifetime of supporting footy.