Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[Strapping Young Lad]

Love reading our board that I was banned from 18 months ago because “I’m a Geelong troll”...every single post I’ve made on this thread for the past two years has legitimately happened and gets written about now on a weekly basis...

It’s time to reflect a little.

You were removed from our board because you were the eternal pessimist even in our better years(most boards have one, and they eventually get removed), constantly carrying on about how nothing was going to work, every player trade was wrong and how wrong everyone else was, which made every thread just a cluster**** of people arguing with you and telling you that you weren’t really a Hawk supporter.

You gave us no choice but to remove you when you consistently needled the board and agitated for arguments in every thread.

Now all this gloating and dredging up of posts from years ago about how you were right all along, and glossing over so many of the details and reasons for the decisions that were made to harvest opposition posters’ likes just makes it even more obvious as to why that decision had to be made.

 

[Vindicater]

Hi Vindicater!!

 

[BIGHAWK23]

It’s time to reflect a little.

You were removed from our board because you were the eternal pessimist even in our better years(most boards have one, and they eventually get removed), constantly carrying on about how nothing was going to work, every player trade was wrong and how wrong everyone else was, which made every thread just a cluster* of people arguing with you and telling you that you weren’t really a Hawk supporter.

You gave us no choice but to remove you when you consistently needled the board and agitated for arguments in every thread.

Now all this gloating and dredging up of posts from years ago about how you were right all along, and glossing over so many of the details and reasons for the decisions that were made to harvest opposition posters’ likes just makes it even more obvious as to why that decision had to be made.

His platform is wasted on him, one of the reasons its being unfollowed on mass

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You’re my favourite bomber fan

 

[theiaofseed]

October 22, 2020

Our key position players heading into 2021:

O’Brien
Patton
Lewis
Hartley
Frost
Hartigan
Jeka
Mcevoy
Koschitzke

With a ruck division of:

Ceglar
Reeves

That is by far the worst in the AFL and arguably the worst in modern AFL/VFL history. There is not a single player on that list that would get a game for any other club next season other than maybe mitch lewis. We will have 7 or 8 of them playing round 1 next season....

If our supporters can still honestly answer “yes” with a straight face to the question in this thread they may as well stop following footy.

Whilst I believe things can change very quickly, like we have seen with the Tigers recently, I just don’t see it with our current list.

We need to cop that we will be bottom 4 or 5 for at least the next 2-3 seasons and hit the draft hard. We are no longer a destination club and Clarko and co need to finally accept that and change their strategy.

April 11, 2021

As I’ve been saying for last 3+ years...Tim O’Brien would have been delisted at just about any other club..Adelaide and north Melbourne included...he is the exact definition of where our list is at..a complete and utter list clogger

Clarkson for the past 2-3 seasons continues to pick sides that he thinks can get cheap wins, when deep down he knows how bad his team is...it’s like clockwork..

after hearing him speak pre-season, he finally admitted we couldn’t play finals this season and we are rebuilding, yet he continues to pick players like O’Brien, ceglar, Hartley, Burgoyne, Daniel Howe. There wouldn’t be a side in the league with a worse bottom 5 players that get to play just about every week. We go into every game now, knowing exactly what will happen when those players play.

It’s the same as our supporters that continue to try and justify our trading in of O'meara and wingard...straight out of the Clarko book...we are going to be a bottom 4-5 side with them for the next 2-3 years....that’s 50+ games we could have got into 4+ talented youngsters at least.


April 18, 2021

Love reading our board that I was banned from 18 months ago because “I’m a Geelong troll”...every single post I’ve made on this thread for the past two years has legitimately happened and gets written about now on a weekly basis...

incredible to think that the majority of our supporters actually thought things were not that bad...even more amazing is they probably still think we are a chance at playing finals in 3 years time...we are a lock for bottom 4-5 this season and next and a good chance in 2023...bookmark this!!

We are not improving whilst players like Tim O’Brien, Shaun Burgoyne, Daniel howe, Kyle hartigan, Connor Nash, Jonathan ceglar and Tom Phillips continue to play on a regular basis.

November 15 2020 - "so we signed Ceglar on a 4-year deal...our only other ruckman is Ned Reeves, son of our CEO Justin Reeves, who would be lucky to get a game in bush footy" In top handful young ruckmen in the league.

May 9 2021- "How’s kozi going against west coasts reserves side?? I can’t see scores. He’s 10 x the player Mitch Lewis is." - Was second in the Coleman before his injury

May 17 2021 - "If we were tanking, we would be playing the likes of Downie, brockman, reeves, Morris instead of list cloggers like Moore who Clarkson seems to think gives us the best chance at winning." - Moore was one of only two players to average 20 touches and a goal.

When every single post is negative don't act like a prophet for "predicting" poor list decisions

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Would have thought the question pondered had long ago been answered, so now it should be will they get back to the top with the group of youth they're building. That takes a lot of good list management decisions, good coaching, the right attitude from players and a game plan that stands up. Still so much left to be answered as the years unfold.

Suspect 2023 will be a very tough one though.

 

[La Dispute]

It’s time to reflect a little.

You were removed from our board because you were the eternal pessimist even in our better years(most boards have one, and they eventually get removed), constantly carrying on about how nothing was going to work, every player trade was wrong and how wrong everyone else was, which made every thread just a cluster* of people arguing with you and telling you that you weren’t really a Hawk supporter.

You gave us no choice but to remove you when you consistently needled the board and agitated for arguments in every thread.

Now all this gloating and dredging up of posts from years ago about how you were right all along, and glossing over so many of the details and reasons for the decisions that were made to harvest opposition posters’ likes just makes it even more obvious as to why that decision had to be made.

Bradkli spoke truth to power and copped years of vitriol from delusional Hawks supporters. He’s now within his rights to highlight his correct predictions.

You absolutely did have a choice not to remove him, but couldn’t hack him upsetting the apple cart so you exiled him.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Bradkli spoke truth to power and copped years of vitriol from delusional Hawks supporters. He’s now within his rights to highlight his correct predictions.

You absolutely did have a choice not to remove him, but couldn’t hack him upsetting the apple cart so you exiled him.

“Truth to power”?

We certainly did have a choice to remove him and when those who didn’t already have him on ignore continually got baited into arguing as to why not everything we were doing was doomed to fail, the decision was very easy.

 

[La Dispute]

Yep
Turn it off

Nah this thread is canonical and needs to be ferried along.

 

[La Dispute]

“Truth to power”?

We certainly did have a choice to remove him and when those who didn’t already have him on ignore continually got baited into arguing as to why not everything we were doing was doomed to fail, the decision was very easy.

The irony is Bradkli wasn’t baiting anyone.

A stack of misguided Hawks supporters took issue with his prophetic statements and couldn’t deal with his less than rosy outlook.

Now he’s been vindicated his expulsion from the Hawthorn board looks very petty.

 

[nelk boys]

Nah this thread is canonical and needs to be ferried along.

Will Carlton ever make good of its 27 year rebuild?

That's the real question.

 

[La Dispute]

Will Carlton ever make good of its 27 year rebuild?

That's the real question.

This thread is about Hawthorn and their dire list situation.

Keep it on topic.

 

[HairyO]

The irony is Bradkli wasn’t baiting anyone.

A stack of misguided Hawks supporters took issue with his prophetic statements and couldn’t deal with his less than rosy outlook.

Now he’s been vindicated his expulsion from the Hawthorn board looks very petty.

He makes 100 negative comments and 20 end up true. So... he is the equivalent of a footy journo.

 

[Bradkli]

He makes 100 negative comments and 20 end up true. So... he is the equivalent of a footy journo.

Not even the best journos are this good:

July 25, 2021
Gavin Excell said:
Are there any whispers of trade targets this year or is it all about the draft


All about the draft moving forward…Better late than never. Should have happened three years ago…


We need to get as many early picks as possible..we need to look at trading two of Tom mitchell, jaeger O’Meara, Chad Wingard and Luke breust…we needed to trade Gunston last season…with his back injury, he’s not worth more than a top 40 pick now.

I really feel for Wingard…he was sold a dream by Clarko but has been delivered a nightmare and it shows with how he plays and his demeanour. By all reports he really loves the club, but he isn’t playing a final with us. He should request a trade…imagine choosing us over the dogs who will be in premiership contention for the next 5 years..he would be the perfect player for them.

May 31, 2021
hk89 said:
He chased a competent medical team who could keep him on the park (which is largely what we've done after it took us nearly a year to undo what GC had done during their mismanagement). Sure, he's not the most durable player around, and thus needs to be managed from time to time, but I imagine he'd be largely happy with his medical management at Hawthorn, especially after that first year on our list. He probably also left because he was sick of playing in front of home crowds with a handful of supporters. Hawthorn doesn't get the biggest home crowds of the Vic sides, but they are a good deal bigger than what he'd be getting if he stayed at GC, and I don't see that changing any time soon.


Medical would have been a key factor in getting O’meara, however the main reason would have been success...

Our master coach in Clarko sold him a dream of coming to play for a finals powerhouse. The same as Tom Mitchell and the same as Chad Wingard...The issue is he sold all of them an absolute lemon. Our midfield both talent wise and statistically is the worst in the AFL and will be for another 2-3 years whilst O’meara should be in his prime years. With his injury history he needs to be in a strong midfield that can support him...imagine how he feels each week having to play alongside Tom Mitchell, James Worpel, Liam Shiels, James cousins, Tom Phillips, Harry Morrison and Daniel Howe

 

[Vindicater]

So are Hawthorn now younger than Essendon. I know before trade period We were touted as having the youngest list but Hawthorn now are damn young.

 

[RUNVS]

So are Hawthorn now younger than Essendon. I know before trade period We were touted as having the youngest list but Hawthorn now are damn young.

I think their midfield is too young. Not a lot of leadership there or players to help protect the younger mids.

 

[HairyO]

So are Hawthorn now younger than Essendon. I know before trade period We were touted as having the youngest list but Hawthorn now are damn young.

We could end up the youngest team by about a year. Which is enormous.

Fewest games too. Which isnt surprising.

 

[Bradkli]

I think their midfield is too young. Not a lot of leadership there or players to help protect the younger mids.

James Worpel is our most experienced midfielder..he’s played 79 games and is borderline best 22. Our midfield mix next season will be made up of Newcombe, Ward, Worpel, moore, Stephens and nash with a mix of Amon, Morrison and Bramble on the wings. It’s the worst unit midfield in the league. It’s going to be a tough 2023 and 2024. All about getting games into the youngsters.

 

[footyfan1978]

Just change the title to "Where are Hawthorn at?" and be done with it, I reckon.

Nah, I think it should be closed and titled "Hawks ignored the elite end of the draft for too long and finally realise they have to invest in quality draft picks again"

 

[gbatman]

Hawthorn have some problems, they will need to bring in senior bodies as salary dumps to manage the salaries of the players who are their future. I haven't seen that happen. They need draft picks and plenty of them, they need to hit the draft hard and they are going to get the opportunity to do so over the coming seasons. It's pretty clear at one stage they tried to do what Geelong did and just build up again but failed badly. Despite the bit of talent they have, they have some issues here. They needed to keep some of the older guys to help get through the next few years.

 

[footyfan1978]

James Worpel is our most experienced midfielder..he’s played 79 games and is borderline best 22. Our midfield mix next season will be made up of Newcombe, Ward, Worpel, moore, Stephens and nash with a mix of Amon, Morrison and Bramble on the wings. It’s the worst unit midfield in the league. It’s going to be a tough 2023 and 2024. All about getting games into the youngsters.

I think Will Day will be in there too. He might turn into your best player in time. Ward looks like a lot of upside too.
Sam Mitchell looks like he has his head screwed on well and in for the long haul. Hopefully the 2023 draft he has four or five picks in top 20 to re-build in areas you still lack which a trade of Wingard out will probably add one more pick in top 20 if he plays a quality season next year before leaving. Think he will be hoping to contend 2026 and beyond if everything goes right.

 

[RUNVS]

Nah, I think it should be closed and titled "Hawks ignored the elite end of the draft for too long and finally realise they have to invest in quality draft picks again"

Harry Potter and the Hawthorn List Management Discussion of Doom.

 

[Bradkli]

I think Will Day will be in there too. He might turn into your best player in time. Ward looks like a lot of upside too.
Sam Mitchell looks like he has his head screwed on well and in for the long haul. Hopefully the 2023 draft he has four or five picks in top 20 to re-build in areas you still lack which a trade of Wingard out will probably add one more pick in top 20 if he plays a quality season next year before leaving. Think he will be hoping to contend 2026 and beyond if everything goes right.

Love will day, but he doesn’t have the build yet to play as a midfielder. He needs to spend the next two years in the gym. He’s only 3 years into his career but already missing too many games through injury. He will play a bit of wing, but he’s class will be needed across half back.

Wingard unfortunately wouldn’t get us more than pick 30 imo, even if he has a decent 2023. He’s too injury prone. If he was able to play 50/50 fwd mid for a whole season he could be an elite player. We needed to trade him 2 years ago, like Mitchell, Gunston and O’Meara. This year was too late

 

[footyfan1978]

Harry Potter and the Hawthorn List Management Discussion of Doom.

Not bad at all.

 

[Sky]

Is Sicilly captain?