Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[WWSD]

So Chad Wingard, Tom Scully and Patton have come to Hawthorn to help out elite kids that Hawthorn are yet to recruit ?

Do Sicily and Worpel not count?

 

[Draft Pick]

Do Sicily and Worpel not count?

The main point of my post is why would these guys leave clubs where they have played in finals etc to go to another club in order to help transition a list ?
Same with Mitchell.

Sicily yes elite talent, Worpel Ok

 

[WWSD]

The main point of my post is why would these guys leave clubs where they have played in finals etc to go to another club in order to help transition a list?
Same with Mitchell.

Sicily yes elite talent, Worpel Ok

Fair enough.

 

[ChappyUK]

LOL

Got absolutely pantsed by Gawn.

 

[ChappyUK]

Pop had elite talent for 20+ years, Clarko had elite talent (most of which he developed) for the best part of 15 years.

Now they both don't and now they are seemingly deferring or refusing the rebuild.

I see similarities between Tom Mitchell and Aldridge. Both are in the good but not great category. Mitchell won a Brownlow but surely the opinion always was that he's a step below the best midfielders and he's not a good kick just as Aldridge isn't a 3 point shooter.

That's really my biggest criticism of Clarko. He seems to be getting away from the list decisions and game style that his club invented!

Maybe it wasn't invented by Clarko but Fagan. Seems to have had a massive impact at the Hawks and now at Brisvegas.

 

[Pessimistic]

In these times, Brownlow medalists aren’t top line kicks. Dusty the exception

 

[ChappyUK]

In these times, Brownlow medalists aren’t top line kicks. Dusty the exception

Does Mitchell even kick?

 

[WWSD]

Thanks to Fremantle being in points deficit, Hawthorn now has pick 4. It could be pick 3 if Sydney win on Saturday.

 

[faible]

We dont want Brown mate. Rubbish rumour started here. I daresay we'll keep the pick.
Crouch is another vanilla mid. The last thing we need.

I actually think Brown would do well under Clarkson. Generally Hawthorn teams with Clarkson have been good at getting players who are good in one area, but deficient in others to be able to play to their strengths.

There's a distinct lack of talent across the park at the moment, but with a functional forward-line (e.g. Gunston, Bruest and a reliable tall target in Lewis for example) Brown would be fine.

I think Clarkson is good at getting the most out of a list, and Hawthorn have typically done well at selecting limited players who can fulfil very specific roles - e.g. Puopolo through the premiership years. Was never the most talented of the smalls, but filled an effective role for the team.

The question is whether it would be worthwhile pursuing yet another mature aged player given the state of the rest of the list.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Talk of chasing Brown while Patton has only been at the club for five minutes.... it kinda answers the thread question.

 

[Pessimistic]

I actually think Brown would do well under Clarkson. Generally Hawthorn teams with Clarkson have been good at getting players who are good in one area, but deficient in others to be able to play to their strengths.

There's a distinct lack of talent across the park at the moment, but with a functional forward-line (e.g. Gunston, Bruest and a reliable tall target in Lewis for example) Brown would be fine.

I think Clarkson is good at getting the most out of a list, and Hawthorn have typically done well at selecting limited players who can fulfil very specific roles - e.g. Puopolo through the premiership years. Was never the most talented of the smalls, but filled an effective role for the team.

The question is whether it would be worthwhile pursuing yet another mature aged player given the state of the rest of the list.

A brown type is not a clarko type. Mind you I was surprised we recruited a patton type.

 

[faible]

A brown type is not a clarko type. Mind you I was surprised we recruited a patton type.

I'm not sure how Patton fits, with his knees he was never going to be able to provide ground level pressure or relief ruck the way Roughead did.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

I'm not sure how Patton fits, with his knees he was never going to be able to provide ground level pressure or relief ruck the way Roughead did.

I supposed the idea is just to have a key forward who can actually take a mark, yet to see that though.

 

[TylerDurden]

I actually think Brown would do well under Clarkson. Generally Hawthorn teams with Clarkson have been good at getting players who are good in one area, but deficient in others to be able to play to their strengths.

There's a distinct lack of talent across the park at the moment, but with a functional forward-line (e.g. Gunston, Bruest and a reliable tall target in Lewis for example) Brown would be fine.

I think Clarkson is good at getting the most out of a list, and Hawthorn have typically done well at selecting limited players who can fulfil very specific roles - e.g. Puopolo through the premiership years. Was never the most talented of the smalls, but filled an effective role for the team.

The question is whether it would be worthwhile pursuing yet another mature aged player given the state of the rest of the list.

No doubting Brown's talent, but his form this year has been terrible. For example, McEvoy as a defender schooled him.
They'd burn the joint if he sold a first rounder for him at present. Maybe 3 years ago, but not at his age now.

 

[faible]

I supposed the idea is just to have a key forward who can actually take a mark, yet to see that though.

I thought Lewis would have been a far better option, much more mobile.

No doubting Brown's talent, but his form this year has been terrible. For example, McEvoy as a defender schooled him.
They'd burn the joint if he sold a first rounder for him at present. Maybe 3 years ago, but not at his age now.

Brown is Out Of Contract at the end of this season, I don't think anyone would bother trading a first rounder for him based off recent form.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Hawks with picks 5 and 21 at the moment. Couple of nice selections.

Resource - 2020 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

www.bigfooty.com

Any F/S etc in play at the Hawks?

 

[WWSD]

Hawks with picks 5 and 21 at the moment. Couple of nice selections.

Resource - 2020 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

www.bigfooty.com

Any F/S etc in play at the Hawks?

Hawthorn actually has pick 4, not 5 because of Fremantle’s points deficit, plus pick 21.

No F/S selections for Hawthorn this year, but Connor Downie (NGA) will likely be bid on inside the top 25.

FIRST-ROUND INDICATIVE DRAFT ORDER
1. Adelaide
2. North Melbourne
3. Sydney
4. Hawthorn
5. Adelaide (tied to Greater Western Sydney's pick)
6. Fremantle (down two spots due to draft-point deficit)
7. North Melbourne (tied to Melbourne's pick)
8. Carlton
9. Essendon
10. Western Bulldogs
11. Geelong (Gold Coast's on-traded mid-first round priority pick)
12. Geelong (tied to West Coast's pick)
13. Gold Coast
14. St Kilda
15. Geelong
16. Richmond
17. Collingwood
18. Brisbane
19. Brisbane (tied to Port Adelaide's pick)

How a little known clause could give Crows two top-five picks

They appear destined for their first wooden spoon. But this is how Adelaide could take two picks inside the top five

www.afl.com.au

 

[Boristown]

Do Sicily and Worpel not count?

Only at Hawthorn does a 25.5 year old count as youth

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Hawthorn actually has pick 4, not 5 because of Fremantle’s points deficit, plus pick 21.

No F/S selections for Hawthorn this year, but Connor Downie (NGA) will likely be bid on inside the top 25.

FIRST-ROUND INDICATIVE DRAFT ORDER
1. Adelaide
2. North Melbourne
3. Sydney
4. Hawthorn
5. Adelaide (tied to Greater Western Sydney's pick)
6. Fremantle (down two spots due to draft-point deficit)
7. North Melbourne (tied to Melbourne's pick)
8. Carlton
9. Essendon
10. Western Bulldogs
11. Geelong (Gold Coast's on-traded mid-first round priority pick)
12. Geelong (tied to West Coast's pick)
13. Gold Coast
14. St Kilda
15. Geelong
16. Richmond
17. Collingwood
18. Brisbane
19. Brisbane (tied to Port Adelaide's pick)

How a little known clause could give Crows two top-five picks

They appear destined for their first wooden spoon. But this is how Adelaide could take two picks inside the top five

www.afl.com.au

Well I don't understand any of that re Freo

Over to you Lore

 

[The 747]

Pick 4 should net them a decent mid age player at the trade table

 

[blockman155]

Pick 4 should net them a decent mid age player at the trade table

Should get us an elite talent like Tuohy, Rohan, Stanley, Steven, Jenkins, Henderson or Dahlhaus to help lead us to a premiership. It worked for Geelong.

 

[Lore]

Well I don't understand any of that re Freo

Over to you Lore

Fremantle matched a bid on a player last year but didn't have enough points to pay for him, so they'll have to pay it back out of whatever points are allocated to their first pick in 2020. At the end of the season once the draft order is settled (but before trade period) the deficit will be applied and the pick will move backwards in the draft order according to whatever value it has remaining.

The article supposes that the deficit has already been applied, but there are two other clubs carrying deficits into this off-season that don't appear to have been accounted for. We have a discussion on it in the draft board here; Fremantle's point deficit - What happens if they get pick 1..?

And since I'm here anyway, here's the draft order. It updates live, including during games. Deficits will be applied properly at the end of the season.
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-live-based-on-current-ladder.1229399/unread/

 

[La Dispute]

Matt Kennedy might be too young, but would be a reasonable target for the Hawks.

He’s slow with bad footskills which is a pre-requisite for getting a game in Hawthorn’s midfield, and was a former high draft pick so they would continue to not ignore the elite of the draft if they brought him in.

Pick 4 and Will Day would be a decent starting point.

 

[The 747]

Should get us an elite talent like Tuohy, Rohan, Stanley, Steven, Jenkins, Henderson or Dahlhaus to help lead us to a premiership. It worked for Geelong.

Awww what a zinger

 

[master bate]

I find the cult of Clarko a bit weird. He's a great coach but he's not a one man band. Geelong fans go on about Stephen Wells when it comes to their list management then want Chris Scott fired each September. I don't think of Adam Simpson as our list manager, he's the coach. Clarko, Ross Lyon, and a few others seem to get all the credit and all the blame when the sh*t hits the fan.

Once you've been there for so long I think it's assumed you get a great deal of power to direct the list management and recruiting. Even a coach in his first season should have an input on the type of players he wants and where the list is at, after 4 flags surely you're driving those decisions. And it's not like the Hawks failures have been in missing on a stack of draft picks, they just haven't had any. If Clarko isn't ticking off on the recruitment of experienced players then why isn't he?

Graham Wright's head of footy and has been the list manager, he's been at the Hawks for ages, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to me if he and Clarko aren't on the same page and if they weren't surely Clarko would be the one to keep.

Adam Simpson might be the List Manager but surely it wasn't a surprise that he put Brady Rawlings in that job when it opened up and I'd imagine Darren Glass isn't overruling Simpson when it comes to trades.