Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[WWSD]

Fair enough. My point is as a collective Puopolo, Hartley, Minchington, Smith, Burgoyne, Henderson and Brooksby is a sh*t load of list spots wasted on going for a 2020 flag

Apart from Hartley who’s contracted until next year, the rest of those players won’t be on the list next year. The list reductions will force Hawthorn to move on more than half of the players over 30 year old.

IN: Pick 3, 19, 42 and 44

OUT: Burgoyne, Stratton, Puopolo, Henderson, Brooksby, Minchington

 

[WWSD]

If their picks are 5, 25, 45 etc. give or take then players like Breust and Gunston are the sort of guys you want to trade in, not out. Not really worth getting rid of some of your best players if they are only going to get picks in the 20s, unless they are taking up huge salary cap space. Peak value has passed, better off just moving on players outside the best 22 to bring new blood in.

Ed Langdon, Hugh Greenwood, Callum Ah Chee, Josh Bruce, Alex Keath, Zak Jones etc. all went for 2nd and 3rd round picks last year. There is usually good value to be had from 20-50.

It’s currently 3 and 19. It could be pick 2 if North Melbourne win next week. lol

 

[Scotland]

It’s currently 3 and 19. It could be pick 2 if North Melbourne win next week. lol

Better not trade them for magic beans, then.

 

[WWSD]

Better not trade them for magic beans, then.

This years free agency list is lacking quality. I just can’t see Hawthorn trading out picks. It was fun while it lasted. Now it’s back to the draft.

 

[La Dispute]

Fair call but they need some elite talent under 21.

There’s not much elite talent at all in the competition, let alone elite talent under 21.

They should be looking to trade in young players who can slot in straight away and contribute as well as draft guys who can start in the best 22 as early as round 1 next year.

It will be interesting to see if Clarkson changes his methodology in between, and starts shaking up this year. They won’t make finals and can’t even play for pride, so may as well see what any of their draft picks can do.

 

[WillHayward]

When was the last time the Hawks used a top 10 pick in the draft?

Over 15 years?

 

[Scotland]

When was the last time the Hawks used a top 10 pick in the draft?

Over 15 years?

2006

 

[WillHayward]

There’s not much elite talent at all in the competition, let alone elite talent under 21.

They should be looking to trade in young players who can slot in straight away and contribute as well as draft guys who can start in the best 22 as early as round 1 next year.

It will be interesting to see if Clarkson changes his methodology in between, and starts shaking up this year. They won’t make finals and can’t even play for pride, so may as well see what any of their draft picks can do.

Elite for their age i meant obviously.

And there is a fair bit

King brothers
Rowell, Rankine, Lukocius
Mcluggage, Raynor
Smith, Naughton
Coffield, Thomas, Rozee, Ash.

 

[TylerDurden]

2006

Thorp.

 

[WillHayward]

2006

Thanks.

Had to google that.

Mitch Thorp.

Wow.

Maybe that explains why Clarko doesnt trust the draft. He is still scarred...

 

[WillHayward]

Thorp.

Explains a lot.....

 

[Foucault1989]

Oh mate... Sleep easy this week you have absolutely nothing to worry about

Heaps to worry about. Hawthorn will comfortably beat Carlton this week. Smashed in the media again. Will turn out a big performance

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Heaps to worry about. Hawthorn will comfortably beat Carlton this week. Smashed in the media again. Will turn out a big performance

Have been for 2 or 3 weeks and we are still yet to see a rise from the players

 

[WillHayward]

Heaps to worry about. Hawthorn will comfortably beat Carlton this week. Smashed in the media again. Will turn out a big performance

Have been for 2 or 3 weeks and we are still yet to see a rise from the players

I see what u guys are doing.

Tying to put the moz on.

The old reverse double moz

 

[HairyO]

Thanks.

Had to google that.

Mitch Thorp.

Wow.

Maybe that explains why Clarko doesnt trust the draft. He is still scarred...

Well, he didnt sleep much from 2007 onwards. He spent all his time working out how to win flags.

Not a bad job of it.

 

[RUNVS]

Well, he didnt sleep much from 2007 onwards. He spent all his time working out how to win flags.

Not a bad job of it.

Not that I am knocking Clarkson or anything as I firmly believe he is the best coach in the league but the last Hawthorn flag was almost 5 years ago now, and it is great that your fans want to continue thinking about it, I would in your situation but at a certain point those flags are no longer relevant to the discussion as the 2020 Hawthorn team is very different to the one that won the flag in 2015. Everything has moved on in that time and Hawthorn fans and Clarkson himself trying to hold onto the past, or trying to extend the era with makeshift solutions is not going to do Hawthorn any good in the long run.

Brisbane tried it, not realising where their list actually was, and it led them down a path of terrible performances for a decade.

 

[HairyO]

Not that I am knocking Clarkson or anything as I firmly believe he is the best coach in the league but the last Hawthorn flag was almost 5 years ago now, and it is great that your fans want to continue thinking about it, I would in your situation but at a certain point those flags are no longer relevant to the discussion as the 2020 Hawthorn team is very different to the one that won the flag in 2015. Everything has moved on in that time and Hawthorn fans and Clarkson himself trying to hold onto the past, or trying to extend the era with makeshift solutions is not going to do Hawthorn any good in the long run.

Brisbane tried it, not realising where their list actually was, and it led them down a path of terrible performances for a decade.

8 years for the Swans and they are 4% above us on the ladder and have St Kilda next week.

Terrible coaches caused Brisbane's issues. And an inability to hang on to talent.

GWS have how many top 20 draft picks? Carlton? Melbourne?

If there was a simple, obvious solution then 18 teams would be doing it and there would be no team rising to the top. Surely the smart move is to try things other clubs are not doing. It may work, it may not.

 

[RUNVS]

8 years for the Swans and they are 4% above us on the ladder and have St Kilda next week.

Terrible coaches caused Brisbane's issues. And an inability to hang on to talent.

GWS have how many top 20 draft picks? Carlton? Melbourne?

If there was a simple, obvious solution then 18 teams would be doing it and there would be no team rising to the top. Surely the smart move is to try things other clubs are not doing. It may work, it may not.

Yes, and the 2012 premiership has no relevance what so ever in what the Sydney team is today. I think after 3 years a premiership isn't relevant to a team, at least not in terms of personnel and game plan.

 

[blue harvest]

Thanks.

Had to google that.

Mitch Thorp.

Wow.

Maybe that explains why Clarko doesnt trust the draft. He is still scarred...

And before that it was Beau Dowler and Xavier Ellis.

 

[bluespooner]

When was the last time the Hawks used a top 10 pick in the draft?

Over 15 years?

That's because all the early draft picks were gifted to the AFL franchises. Melbourne and Carlton hoovered up the rest of those picks and come to think of it their virtually AFL franchises as well, given how dependent they are on AFL distributions.

I don't have problems with the path Hawthorn has taken, as they were never going to win another premiership if they were just dependent on the draft. If they had chosen that path they would have always fallen short in comparison to the clubs mentioned, as they were given access to monopolise all the elite talent. By now, if the draft was the path to success than GWS and the GC should have several premierships between them, and Melbourne and Carlton should have cleaned up the rest.

The problem with the O'Meara and Wingard trades was that they paid too much, despite this they are still the two most talented players on Hawthorn's list.

 

[ChappyUK]

I don't think the Hawks are as bad as they are playing. I just think they are one of the teams that aren't handling hub life.

See West Coast in the hub and them today.

The press conference when Clarko was asked about hub life he seemed almost defeatist. There was no 'We are up for the challenge'. I think this lack of positivity is seeping through the playing group.

 

[Foucault1989]

I see what u guys are doing.

Tying to put the moz on.

The old reverse double moz

I'll be going for the moz forever. I've talked a lot of shit about Hawthorn in this thread. I need some escape as my side isn't known for consistent performances

 

[TylerDurden]

Thanks.

Had to google that.

Mitch Thorp.

Wow.

Maybe that explains why Clarko doesnt trust the draft. He is still scarred...

We did pick up Rioli with pick 12 the next year though

 

[TylerDurden]

And before that it was Beau Dowler and Xavier Ellis.

Same draft netted 4 timer Birchall.
Ellis and Bailey were premiership players also from that draft. Not a bad return.

Losing J Kennedy in that era was our biggest mistake. Mind you, the pick we got for him got us Stratton, another 3 timer.

 

[WillHayward]

8 years for the Swans and they are 4% above us on the ladder and have St Kilda next week.

Terrible coaches caused Brisbane's issues. And an inability to hang on to talent.

GWS have how many top 20 draft picks? Carlton? Melbourne?

If there was a simple, obvious solution then 18 teams would be doing it and there would be no team rising to the top. Surely the smart move is to try things other clubs are not doing. It may work, it may not.

We made the gf in 2016.

We realised we needed a full rebuild in 2018.