Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[Mr Meeseeks]

I don't think you understand what "rent free" means.

Your coach has lost the plot and it's ******* hilarious.
And seeing Hawk supporters slowly figure out their list of super-recruits like Patton and Scully is an abject failure- that sh*t is priceless.

I'll thoroughly enjoy watching your club at the bottom of the ladder for the next decade.

Rent Free my ass. I should be buying a dozen memberships for all the enjoyment I'm getting from yellow and brown stinking it up (but I'm not going to).

Sounds rent free to me.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Poster living in the same dreamworld as Clarko. Mate, your list is cooked!

Things turn around very fast in this game mate. Im not living in dreamworld, I have no influence over how Hawthorn go about it, Im just a supporter doing just that, supporting.

Sorry if it offended you.

 

[RUNVS]

Things turn around very fast in this game mate. Im not living in dreamworld, I have no influence over how Hawthorn go about it, Im just a supporter doing just that, supporting.

Sorry if it offended you.

Always thought it would be interesting if at random of the 10 most active supporters of each club on bigfooty one of those supporters each year is in charge of their teams trading and drafting for that year. Would shake things up a bit.

 

[rei154]

Yeah it's so "crazy", isn't it? Still dorks haven't competed for 5 years already, looked sh*t last year, got bundled out of finals straight sets the year before that. At least the last couple of seasons you had some older players who could still get up for a game.

Your players are old and slow and the players who aren't old and slow are average.

It's almost as if clubs can change their lists somehow in order to try and get some success hey? I know that last bit has eluded your mob for the better part of a century but maybe you'll be able to have a crack at it soon.
Would also say something about glass houses given your finals showings in the last few years.

 

[Scotland]

Purely hypothetical because I believe if he wants to leave he can trigger a clause and become a UFA but I wonder whether the Hawks would trade for a 28 year old Andrew Gaff.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Purely hypothetical because I believe if he wants to leave he can trigger a clause and become a UFA but I wonder whether the Hawks would trade for a 28 year old Andrew Gaff.

Currently? I would hope nothing.

Going to be very interesting to see how we address this coming off season.

 

[WWSD]

I dont care if Hawks are able to succeed but can they be sh*t for one more week please!!

Hawthorn won’t get close to beating Carlton this week at all. I haven’t said anything along those lines since 2005.

Carlton to finish in the top eight and beat Essendon in Elimination final again.

 

[Scotland]

Currently? I would hope nothing.

Going to be very interesting to see how we address this coming off season.

There's a natural trade off. If you finish bottom 4 then you would have rocks in your head to trade a top 4 pick for a player that age. If you win a few and end up with pick 8-10 it becomes a maybe. If you were top 4 (mathematically impossible from here I'd say) different ball game again. Curious to see if the list management team double down on trading for experience, pending who is available.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Or:

IN: O'Meara, Wingard
OUT: Josh Williams (delisted), Hunter Clarke (Saints), Liam Ryan (WCE), Jordan Clark (Geelong), Bailey Williams (WCE)

Would those players be in the Hawks best 22 and provide more to the side than O'Meara and Wingard?

Quite easily I would’ve thought. Keeping in mind you’re talking about 21 year olds.

 

[giantsully]

Had all your senior players been available this year would you have gone down the same path with your youth or has injuries forced your hand?. Easy to make assumptions based on who you have out there right now. We have debuted 2 of our picks from last year's draft this year and 1 of them is looking like a gun. Also should be giving games to guys like Finn Mcguiness and Harry Jones ( young 21 ur old midfielder) very soon who are the future of the club in the midfield. We're people seem to be getting misled is the fact we are playing far too many over 30s when we don't really need to. They are contributing jack sh*t to the side bar Isaac Smith and at times Mcevoy. If they weren't in the side would we be better off? Absolutely and our list wouldn't suffer as much as people realise. The issue is Clarko and his game plan stifling the talents of the rest of the team ATM. The list is good enough if we play the right players and have the right style in place.

Absolutely we would have, and indeed have been doing for a number of years - that's how we've been able to get a lot of games into Hayward. Florent, McCartin, Rowbottam, Mills, Blakey etc - we've clearly gone the the 180 degrees approach to Hawthorn over the last few years (per the title of the thread). And right now, it looks convincingly the better strategy.

 

[WWSD]

If North Melbourne win next week and Hawthorn lose which is all but certain to happen, then Hawthorn’s picks would be 2,19,42 and 44 if the ladder stayed as it is.

If Smith leaves as a free agent, it would net the Hawks a pick in the 30s which could come in handy.

Conor Downie as the NGA player will be bid on inside the top 25.

If Hawthorn can nail this draft haul and find 3-4 good young players then who’s to say they won’t be able to rebound quickly?

 

[Ambrosia]

Nothing wrong with him, but a rebuild is not going to hinge on Pitt. He competes okay in the ruck but hasn't got a lot of other strings to his bow.

I love his physicality and he is a great team guy but he is just a decent player nothing more.

Rebuilds never hinge on one player. Pittonet has much more future value than Ceglar and McEvoy.

Hawks could have let Smith and Ceglar walk as free agents and gotten good compensation.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Rebuilds never hinge on one player. Pittonet has much more future value than Ceglar and McEvoy.

Hawks could have let Smith and Ceglar walk as free agents and gotten good compensation.

We were never getting good compensation for Smith or Ceglar.

 

[Ambrosia]

We were never getting good compensation for Smith or Ceglar.

Lose both and I’m sure you’d get a second rounder/end of second rounder . Drafting is such an inexact science that it’s all about getting as many bites at the apple as possible.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

If North Melbourne win next week and Hawthorn lose which is all but certain to happen, then Hawthorn’s picks would be 2,19,42 and 44 if the ladder stayed as it is.

If Smith leaves as a free agent, it would net the Hawks a pick in the 30s which could come in handy.

Conor Downie as the NGA player will be bid on inside the top 25.

If Hawthorn can nail this draft haul and find 3-4 good young players then who’s to say they won’t be able to rebound quickly?

Pick 2,19, Connor Downie and a bunch of 4th and 5th rounders isn’t going to turn it around quickly. But it would be a solid start.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Lose both and I’m sure you’d get a second rounder/end of second rounder . Drafting is such an inexact science that it’s all about getting as many bites at the apple as possible.

Giving up an important player both on and off the field in Smith as well as an okay ruck in Cegs for a potential late second. No thanks.

 

[La Dispute]

Or:

IN: O'Meara, Wingard
OUT: Josh Williams (delisted), Hunter Clarke (Saints), Liam Ryan (WCE), Jordan Clark (Geelong), Bailey Williams (WCE)

Would those players be in the Hawks best 22 and provide more to the side than O'Meara and Wingard?

I’d say at worst Ryan, Clarke and Clark would be in Hawthorn’s best 22 now and into the future. Hawthorn would be much, much better off with that combination of players and additional cap space.

Wingard is useless to Hawthorn in their present state and O’Meara has been overpaid and overrated since he arrived. Take those guys out and substitute for the young players above and their results are pretty similar, but at least they’ve got some future resource in a number of parts of the ground. Currently the cupboard is bare.

 

[Ambrosia]

Giving up an important player both on and off the field in Smith as well as an okay ruck in Cegs for a potential late second. No thanks.

Fair enough. My point is as a collective Puopolo, Hartley, Minchington, Smith, Burgoyne, Henderson and Brooksby is a shit load of list spots wasted on going for a 2020 flag

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Fair enough. My point is as a collective Puopolo, Hartley, Minchington, Smith, Burgoyne, Henderson and Brooksby is a sh*t load of list spots wasted on going for a 2020 flag

I see where you are coming from but i think it is more than that, don't get me wrong we have made some mistakes i just don't think some list spots spent on some depth is an issue. Even if we go down a full rebuild i am okay with retaining some of these types. The main concern i have is becoming noncompetitive because that is where things can fall apart massively.

 

[Ambrosia]

I see where you are coming from but i think it is more than that, don't get me wrong we have made some mistakes i just don't think some list spots spent on some depth is an issue. Even if we go down a full rebuild i am okay with retaining some of these types. The main concern i have is becoming noncompetitive because that is where things can fall apart massively.

Not suggesting you should of cut them all but given the way this season is going definitely shouldn’t have given 2 or 3 a spot imo.

 

[WillHayward]

You seriously think they are worth much?

Pick 20?

So lets say they get 3,20,21.

Something like that maybe?

 

[PAFC_1870]

Pick 20?

So lets say they get 3,20,21.

Something like that maybe?

More or less 30 year olds?

No. Not even close.

 

[FairKouta]

Hawthorn won’t get close to beating Carlton this week at all. I haven’t said anything along those lines since 2005.

Carlton to finish in the top eight and beat Essendon in Elimination final again.

Lels

 

[Scotland]

Pick 20?

So lets say they get 3,20,21.

Something like that maybe?

If their picks are 5, 25, 45 etc. give or take then players like Breust and Gunston are the sort of guys you want to trade in, not out. Not really worth getting rid of some of your best players if they are only going to get picks in the 20s, unless they are taking up huge salary cap space. Peak value has passed, better off just moving on players outside the best 22 to bring new blood in.

Ed Langdon, Hugh Greenwood, Callum Ah Chee, Josh Bruce, Alex Keath, Zak Jones etc. all went for 2nd and 3rd round picks last year. There is usually good value to be had from 20-50.

 

[WillHayward]

If their picks are 5, 25, 45 etc. give or take then players like Breust and Gunston are the sort of guys you want to trade in, not out. Not really worth getting rid of some of your best players if they are only going to get picks in the 20s, unless they are taking up huge salary cap space. Peak value has passed, better off just moving on players outside the best 22 to bring new blood in.

Ed Langdon, Hugh Greenwood, Callum Ah Chee, Josh Bruce, Alex Keath, Zak Jones etc. all went for 2nd and 3rd round picks last year. There is usually good value to be had from 20-50.

Fair call but they need some elite talent under 21.