Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[Foucault1989]

Hawthorn will start by doing that in this years draft. Pick 3 and 19 is a good start and they can build from there. Hawthorn can even stockpile on more draft picks either this year or next, if they choose to go the full rebuild path.

All it takes is one good draft haul and things can change quickly. Port Adelaide are a good example. They nailed three quality young players in the 2018 draft. Who’s to say Hawthorn can’t replicate something similar with this years high draft picks?

Port Adelaide have more existing talent on their list for the young players to slot into. In two years, most of your senior guys will be retired.

 

[HairyO]

Dogs also drafted in elite talent. Notice a pattern?

Except they werent considered elite in 2016.

Media and BF were wrong then. And the next year. And the following year with "no Nic Nat, no West Coast.".

Notice a pattern ?

 

[Foucault1989]

Except they werent considered elite in 2016.

Media and BF were wrong then. And the next year. And the following year with "no Nic Nat, no West Coast.".

Notice a pattern ?

God you are delusional. Do you really expect a one draft turnaround with your list? It. Is. Cooked. Top to tail. Needs a full clean out. Start again from scratch.

 

[JayJ20]

What destroys a club is essentially trading Burton and Duursma for Wingard. It was ridiculous then and even more ridiculous in hindsight.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

What destroys a club is essentially trading Burton and Duursma for Wingard. It was ridiculous then and even more ridiculous in hindsight.

Nah it was an overpay but it really doesn't.

 

[Bradkli]

What destroys a club is essentially trading Burton and Duursma for Wingard. It was ridiculous then and even more ridiculous in hindsight.

Yes we paid way overs...but hindsight is a wonderful thing...Clarko and Wright clearly overrated our list and thought we could contend over the next 3 years, unfortunately they were wrong..as I have said numerous times, sometimes even the greats get things wrong...

Clarko needs to stop with his ridiculous comments after losses trying to deflect from how bad we are playing and how poor the current shape of our list is, admit he was wrong and change things up...The longer he waits, the worse it will be for us and the media will keep lapping it up...

at least if he starts playing the kids and we lose, we can say we are "rebuilding"...we are going to finish bottom 4 or 5 regardless, at least do it getting games into the kids....playing guys like Brooksby is just an embarrassment

Also, further to your comment, whilst Duursma is going to be an elite winger and the exact player we need with Henderson and Scully cooked and Smith coming to the end, we may not having taken Duursma with that pick.

 

[JayJ20]

Yes we paid way overs...but hindsight is a wonderful thing...Clarko and Wright clearly overrated our list and thought we could contend over the next 3 years, unfortunately they were wrong..as I have said numerous times, sometimes even the greats get things wrong...

Clarko needs to stop with his ridiculous comments after losses trying to deflect from how bad we are playing and how poor the current shape of our list is, admit he was wrong and change things up...The longer he waits, the worse it will be for us and the media will keep lapping it up...

at least if he starts playing the kids and we lose, we can say we are "rebuilding"...we are going to finish bottom 4 or 5 regardless, at least do it getting games into the kids....playing guys like Brooksby is just an embarrassment

Also, further to your comment, whilst Duursma is going to be an elite winger and the exact player we need with Henderson and Scully cooked and Smith coming to the end, we may not having taken Duursma with that pick.

Yep. Hawthorn don't necessary need to do a Carlton or Melbourne style rebuild, but they need to make sure they are nailing the next 3 drafts to refresh the list. Young talent is very very light.

 

[chunkylover53]

clarko getting a bit of late-career crazy Mick vibes about him atm.

 

[Bradkli]

Yep. Hawthorn don't necessary need to do a Carlton or Melbourne style rebuild, but they need to make sure they are nailing the next 3 drafts to refresh the list. Young talent is very very light.

we have 23 players on our list that are 23 and under and ONLY 2 play consistently in worpel and Hardwick...We are in for a world of pain over the next 3 years at least and I still find it incredible how some of our supporters fail to see it or still think we can challenge over the next few years..

We have a nice core of players 25-30 in impey, omera, mitchell, sicily, Wingard, Gunston and Breust..the issue is we have zero elite young talent coming through to support them. By the time our younger players play 50+ games that core of players will be over their peak and coming to the end of their careers.

In 3 years time, we will have no Frawley, McEvoy, Smith, Burgoyne, Henderson, Scully, Stratton and probably Shiels. Those players are ALL currently still "best 22". That is over 30% of our team...We currently have no one to replace Frawley (our supporters will say Jacob Kotschitzke...he is miles off playing senior football), no one to replace McEvoy..Ceglar is absolutely terrible (great decision to let Pittonet go), no one to replace Henderson, Smith and Scully as wingers.

I love Breust and Gunston, but one of them may need to be traded at the end of this season..we need to head into this draft with 3 picks in the top 25...their trade value has diminished over the past two seasons, but a team that is going to challenge in the coming years may be willing to pay overs for them. They are the only two players we have that have value as we won't be trading omera, mitchell, sicily or Wingard.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

we have 23 players on our list that are 23 and under and ONLY 2 play consistently in worpel and Hardwick...We are in for a world of pain over the next 3 years at least and I still find it incredible how some of our supporters fail to see it or still think we can challenge over the next few years..

We have a nice core of players 25-30 in impey, omera, mitchell, sicily, Wingard, Gunston and Breust..the issue is we have zero elite young talent coming through to support them. By the time our younger players play 50+ games that core of players will be over their peak and coming to the end of their careers.

In 3 years time, we will have no Frawley, McEvoy, Smith, Burgoyne, Henderson, Scully, Stratton and probably Shiels. Those players are ALL currently still "best 22". That is over 30% of our team...We currently have no one to replace Frawley (our supporters will say Jacob Kotschitzke...he is miles off playing senior football), no one to replace McEvoy..Ceglar is absolutely terrible (great decision to let Pittonet go), no one to replace Henderson, Smith and Scully as wingers.

I love Breust and Gunston, but one of them may need to be traded at the end of this season..we need to head into this draft with 3 picks in the top 25...their trade value has diminished over the past two seasons, but a team that is going to challenge in the coming years may be willing to pay overs for them. They are the only two players we have that have value as we won't be trading omera, mitchell, sicily or Wingard.

I am not trading one of our only avenues to goal for a pick in the 20's in a Draft that is likely to be a massive crap shoot.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Hard to without any trade currency or draft picks. I don’t think hawthorn have any player on their list that other clubs would pay a premium top 10 pick for.

I would for Omeara or wingard

 

[La Dispute]

I would for Omeara or wingard

They'd have currency, but how much is the question. With both out of form, no longer young and with some recent injuries another club would have to target them specifically.

The Bulldogs still seems like a reasonable fit for Wingard, maybe a club like Freo that needs another big body around the ball would be happy to take O'Meara?

 

[fnerd]

They'd have currency, but how much is the question. With both out of form, no longer young and with some recent injuries another club would have to target them specifically.

The Bulldogs still seems like a reasonable fit for Wingard, maybe a club like Freo that needs another big body around the ball would be happy to take O'Meara?

Nah that entitled flog can stay and slowly waste away at hawthorn .

Had the chance to come back to WA after GC but laughably didn’t get the memo hawks were no longer a destination club and obviously weren’t going to continue their past success.

Spouted he simply didn’t want to fly every second week but everyone Knew it was because he was hopelessly pussy whipped (Is even with that same chick?)and still had stars in his eyes with hawthorn/clarko after years with basket case suns.

Add to the fact that hes never gotten even close to pre injury levels(admittedly was looking like absolute gun) and you d be paying more for his name than actual output

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Nah that entitled flog can stay and slowly waste away at hawthorn .

Had the chance to come back to WA after GC but laughably didn’t get the memo hawks were no longer a destination club and obviously weren’t going to continue their past success.

Spouted he simply didn’t want to fly every second week but everyone Knew it was because he was hopelessly pussy whipped (Is even with that same chick?)and still had stars in his eyes with hawthorn/clarko after years with basket case suns.

Add to the fact that hes never gotten even close to pre injury levels(admittedly was looking like absolute gun) and you d be paying more for his name than actual output

Yes he is still with the same partner, imagine in an adult relationship doing something for a person you care about. 'pussy whipped' LMFAO i really hope you are young because that is just stupid.

When he came he also has people telling him his career was over and he was never going to play again, i think he would be pretty happy with how things are going so far.

Besides if he was to leave the Hawks for success not sure the Dockers would be in the top 10 clubs he would be moving to.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

What destroys a club is essentially trading Burton and Duursma for Wingard. It was ridiculous then and even more ridiculous in hindsight.

but there is more.. we also gave them a second rounder in that deal. We sold the farm for a player that Port couldn't get out of the door quick enough. Wingard is a genuine a grader but he is cream on the cake - not a player you build a side around. I got crucified for questioning this trade at the time by my fellow supporters. It was plain as day that we needed to invest in the draft that year AND keep Burton, we didn't. Kudos to Port that year, they worked us over as well as adding Rozeee and Butters

This ridiculous trade will set us back years...

 

[RUNVS]

Random question to Hawthorn fans but who is your next captain after Stratton? I mean Mitchell would seem obvious but he is going through his own injury issues at the moment. Perhaps O'Meara?

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Random question to Hawthorn fans but who is your next captain after Stratton? I mean Mitchell would seem obvious but he is going through his own injury issues at the moment. Perhaps O'Meara?

Has to be O'meara by far our best leader and i was very disappointed he wasn't given the role this year.

 

[TylerDurden]

Random question to Hawthorn fans but who is your next captain after Stratton? I mean Mitchell would seem obvious but he is going through his own injury issues at the moment. Perhaps O'Meara?

JOM

 

[MinerBoy]

Yep O'Meara will be captain IMO.

Gunston should have been the captain between Roughead and O'Meara.

 

[WillHayward]

That's because all the early draft picks were gifted to the AFL franchises. Melbourne and Carlton hoovered up the rest of those picks and come to think of it their virtually AFL franchises as well, given how dependent they are on AFL distributions.

I don't have problems with the path Hawthorn has taken, as they were never going to win another premiership if they were just dependent on the draft. If they had chosen that path they would have always fallen short in comparison to the clubs mentioned, as they were given access to monopolise all the elite talent. By now. if the draft was the path to success than GWS and the GC should have several premierships between them, and Melbourne and Carlton should have cleaned up the rest.

The problem with the O'Meara and WIngard trades was that they paid too much, despite this they are still the two most talented players on Hawthorn's list.

Not saying its the hawks fault. Its not.

Just saying it is what is and its now 2020 and clarko needs to re-assess.

 

[La Dispute]

Yes he is still with the same partner, imagine in an adult relationship doing something for a person you care about. 'pussy whipped' LMFAO i really hope you are young because that is just stupid.

When he came he also has people telling him his career was over and he was never going to play again, i think he would be pretty happy with how things are going so far.

Besides if he was to leave the Hawks for success not sure the Dockers would be in the top 10 clubs he would be moving to.

From a financial POV he'd be very happy. He is a B-grade player being paid an A-graders wage. He would also be happy to be playing again after such severe injuries, despite never quite reaching the heights he could have as a player.

But in terms of on field success? No way. Making one finals series which they bundled out of in straight sets wasn't the aim.

Now Hawthorn either:

1. Keep churning their list over, and stay in a holding pattern of being an OK team, but may still regress further

or

2. Invest heavily into the draft and bank games into young players, which is going to impact how competitive they are on field.

Neither option is ideal, and is far from what Jaegar was expecting when he turned up, although he is certainly one of the reasons Hawthorn haven't achieved much in his time there.

I'd much rather be at Freo at this point in time. They have the foundation of a good team, and some quality young players to build around.

 

[Toump Ass]

Nice to see you up and about mate but our list will look completely different in 5 years yet alone 10.

Who knows if it will be any good or not but the wishing for 10 years at the bottom is nothing more than a wish from you champ.

Ok mate-

You have been average for 5 years and your list might look completely different in another 5 years but it will still probably be toilet because unlike most clubs you have not got young players who are any good. "but but but Will Day's shown a bit! DAYPEDO! DAYPEDO!". No he's shown as much about any other first year player.

10 years maybe a bit "pessimistic" as they say but then Hawthorn Football Club is aka Hawthorn Retirement Home so there's a fair chance you'll still at least some of your potatos running around. They sure do stick around in yellow and brown!

 

[rei154]

Ok mate-

You have been average for 5 years and your list might look completely different in another 5 years but it will still probably be toilet because unlike most clubs you have not got young players who are any good. "but but but Will Day's shown a bit! DAYPEDO! DAYPEDO!". No he's shown as much about any other first year player.

10 years maybe a bit "pessimistic" as they say but then Hawthorn Football Club is aka Hawthorn Retirement Home so there's a fair chance you'll still at least some of your potatos running around. They sure do stick around in yellow and brown!

Amazing how there was some interesting discussion going on in this thread and you want to bring it back to a pissing contest.

From a financial POV he'd be very happy. He is a B-grade player being paid an A-graders wage. He would also be happy to be playing again after such severe injuries, despite never quite reaching the heights he could have as a player.

But in terms of on field success? No way. Making one finals series which they bundled out of in straight sets wasn't the aim.

Now Hawthorn either:

1. Keep churning their list over, and stay in a holding pattern of being an OK team, but may still regress further

or

2. Invest heavily into the draft and bank games into young players, which is going to impact how competitive they are on field.

Neither option is ideal, and is far from what Jaegar was expecting when he turned up, although he is certainly one of the reasons Hawthorn haven't achieved much in his time there.

I'd much rather be at Freo at this point in time. They have the foundation of a good team, and some quality young players to build around.

I'm really hoping for option 2 at this point- the clubs goal of achieving in 2022 is looking premature at the minute and I'd rather aim for 2023/24 at this point. JOM, Wingard, & Mitchell will all still be up and running and in the "window" of athletic prowess- especially if we manage them well.
Only issue is I'm not sure we've got much currency to buy into the top end of the draft at the minute, with any luck the "compromised" nature of this draft will allow us to net another first rounder, or another early second.

 

[Toump Ass]

Amazing how there was some interesting discussion going on in this thread and you want to bring it back to a pissing contest.

Then discuss interesting things and let me entertain hawthorn supporters who wish to engage with me.

 

[WWSD]

Then discuss interesting things and let me entertain hawthorn supporters who wish to engage with me.

And Melbourne will be bottom feeders without Max Gone. Have fun with Goodwin as head coach for another three years.