Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Since 2001]

Proper pre-season for wingard and Scully. Mitchell comes back, Jaeger gets another pre-season, Patton has said he is ready to go for pre-season and could've played this year. Frost shaws up our defence. Hopefully Impey comes back strong aswell

Hope Finn is bid on after pick 11 allowing us to get two first round talents into our club. Development from TOB, Lewis, Worpel and scrimshaw.

Next year I think we can make the top 8 and win a final.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Frost shaws up our defence.

Frosty is more Matt than Heath.

 

[Hawkk]

38 is a very specific number to pick

Sure,

Take your pick...

Since 1908 (17 years before Hawthorn entered the VFL and 6 years before it entered the VFA)

13 Haw v 12 Rich

Since 1925 (when Hawthorn entered the VFL)

13 Haw v 10 Rich

Since 1967 (the start of Richmond’s golden era)

12 Haw v 7 Rich

Since 1982 (when the Swans moved to Sydney and the VFL went national)

9 Haw v 2 Rich

Since 1987 (when the Bears and Eagles were added to the VFL)

7 Haw v 2 Rich

Since 1990 (when the VFL became the AFL)

5 Haw v 2 Rich

Hawthorn did Richmond a service by training Damien Hardwick up which has directly led to the 2017 and 2019 drought breaking premierships. Richmond almost Richmond'ed themselves with the ‘focus on footy’ board ticket who I’m sure you probably would have voted for if given the chance...

 

[Hawkk]

FWIW both clubs have extremely good premiership strike rates especially since 1908, 1925 (1 and 2) and 1967 (1 and 3) so I’m not having a go at Richmond above per say...

 

[blaisee]

I’ll give you a better stat between our clubs .... last 38 years NINE premierships to TWO. You have got absolutely nothing on the Hawks. Tigers fans have such short memories they have been a rabble, a comical act for decades. Three years doesn’t change for me they can and will fall as quick as they rose from 2016 when they were close to sacking their coach.

What has the fact that I go for richmond have to do with my opinion ?

It is one of the most bizarre things on bigfooty that ever since richmond have been successful , Richmond supporters opinions now have have less weight ?

And now that hawthorn are a middle of the road battling team with an old list , their supporters opinions are less insightful

Both scenarios are just bizarre

 

[Pessimistic]

At least hawks strategy is clear and can be discussed.

I cant for the life of me work out what st kildas and port adelaides strategy is at all, seems all over the place

 

[Wojcinski]

What has the fact that I go for richmond have to do with my opinion ?

It is one of the most bizarre things on bigfooty that ever since richmond have been successful , Richmond supporters opinions now have have less weight ?

And now that hawthorn are a middle of the road battling team with an old list , their supporters opinions are less insightful

Both scenarios are just bizarre

Doesn't matter who you support, I tried to add my 2 cents at some stage but the majority of the responses were regarding 2008 with little to address the aging list/lack of finals wins for years. This is one of the weirder mainboard threads

 

[Pessimistic]

Doesn't matter who you support, I tried to add my 2 cents at some stage but the majority of the responses were regarding 2008 with little to address the aging list/lack of finals wins for years. This is one of the weirder mainboard threads

Its also 'weird' because no detractors can really suggest what the hawks should have been doing, or give examples of clubs which had had success in the way they suggest.

Geelong is perhaps the best recruiter, and is three years advanced on the hawks if you count since last flag. the strategies aren't that different either

 

[matey]

What has the fact that I go for richmond have to do with my opinion ?

It is one of the most bizarre things on bigfooty that ever since richmond have been successful , Richmond supporters opinions now have have less weight ?

And now that hawthorn are a middle of the road battling team with an old list , their supporters opinions are less insightful

Both scenarios are just bizarre

Do you know what’s more bizarre BF buffoons who think they know more than one of the best AFL coaches ever in the game regarding how to put together a premiership team. Clarko’s happy on how the Hawks are building and transitioning from its recent three peat and so are most Hawthorn supporters!

 

[KermitJagger]

this team is about to fall off a cliff

7 players turn 30 or more in 2020
4 more in 2021

2 of the 22 didn't play a game in 2019

thats more than half the 22, and the team peaked at finishing 9th

This is so over

This is just a baffling line of criticism to go down considering you have a core of players in Cotchin, Rance, Riewoldt, Houli and Edwards who will all be 30+ next season. Joining them is Astbury, Martin, Grimes in 2021.

I might be a bit silly but I'd consider it more worrying for Richmond to lose that list of 8 players than it will be for the Hawks to lose theirs.

 

[HeHateMe]

Dont bother they rate Jack Graham higher then Tim Taranto.
With that level of confirmation bias I'm sure they think they will 3 peat.

 

[blaisee]

Do you know what’s more bizarre BF buffoons who think they know more than one of the best AFL coaches ever in the game regarding how to put together a premiership team. Clarko’s happy on how the Hawks are building and transitioning from its recent three peat and so are most Hawthorn supporters!

when did I say I know more than Clarkson?

You think Clarkson doesn't know that you are middle of the road?

 

[blaisee]

This is just a baffling line of criticism to go down considering you have a core of players in Cotchin, Rance, Riewoldt, Houli and Edwards who will all be 30+ next season. Joining them is Astbury, Martin, Grimes in 2021.

I might be a bit silly but I'd consider it more worrying for Richmond to lose that list of 8 players than it will be for the Hawks to lose theirs.

What has that got to do with Hawthorn and this thread?

 

[blaisee]

Dont bother they rate Jack Graham higher then Tim Taranto.
With that level of confirmation bias I'm sure they think they will 3 peat.

who said that?

 

[Vindicater]

Frost and Patton were great pickups for what they paid.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Frost and Patton were great pickups for what they paid.

The rebuild is still in progress it isn't done yet in the mean time we plan to be competitive

 

[blaisee]

Sure,

Take your pick...

Since 1908 (17 years before Hawthorn entered the VFL and 6 years before it entered the VFA)

13 Haw v 12 Rich

Since 1925 (when Hawthorn entered the VFL)

13 Haw v 10 Rich

Since 1967 (the start of Richmond’s golden era)

12 Haw v 7 Rich

Since 1982 (when the Swans moved to Sydney and the VFL went national)

9 Haw v 2 Rich

Since 1987 (when the Bears and Eagles were added to the VFL)

7 Haw v 2 Rich

Since 1990 (when the VFL became the AFL)

5 Haw v 2 Rich

Hawthorn did Richmond a service by training Damien Hardwick up which has directly led to the 2017 and 2019 drought breaking premierships. Richmond almost Richmond'ed themselves with the ‘focus on footy’ board ticket who I’m sure you probably would have voted for if given the chance...

what about the last 3?

How many flags have you won in the last 3?

 

[stfan]

At least hawks strategy is clear and can be discussed.

I cant for the life of me work out what st kildas and port adelaides strategy is at all, seems all over the place

This may give you some insight on St Kilda's strategy. All bar 2 (If Brown goes)or 3 players can play 4 or more years.


Note this was made by Saint believer


The vast majority of players can now considerably more seasons. There is now a real bulge in the 21 to 26 age bracket who can now push forward together, and be added to each season improve quality.

Gaining Ryder is an outlier as we only had one ruck on our list entering the draft. So he meets short-term need. The others gained this year so far are all of benefit both immediately and long-term.

Looking to be better in 2020, and areal thread in 2022.

 

[Sully111]

Hawks are in great shape. Who knows what they're capable of next year. With Clarkson steering the ship, honestly, nothing would surprise me.

 

[Pessimistic]

I guess not everyone can have a McEvoy on the list, but hey they have savage and hill on the list now

 

[moistie]

38 is a very specific number to pick

Ok, make it a nice rounded 50 years

It's still six flags (69, 73, 74, 80, 17 & 19) to 12 (71, 76, 78, 83, 86, 88, 89, 91, 08, 13, 14 & 15).

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

[blaisee]

Ok, make it a nice rounded 50 years

It's still six flags (69, 73, 74, 80, 17 & 19) to 12 (71, 76, 78, 83, 86, 88, 89, 91, 08, 13, 14 & 15).

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

I prefer recent history. The last 3 years

It is 2 nil

 

[FairKouta]

I like what the Hawks have done.
Patton and frost for cheap and mitchell to come back could be contenders provided they get the same ouput from their mature players.

 

[Spook]

Gunston is close, and has had a better career, but he lacks the intensity to get a game for the tigers,Caddy is younger and......

About 10.5 months younger.......... but you use that mate.... “Caddy is 10 months younger than Gunston therefore more valuable”....... That’s so bloody stupid, even for you.

 

[Shadow89]

This may give you some insight on St Kilda's strategy. All bar 2 (If Brown goes)or 3 players can play 4 or more years.


Note this was made by Saint believer
View attachment 766815

The vast majority of players can now considerably more seasons. There is now a real bulge in the 21 to 26 age bracket who can now push forward together, and be added to each season improve quality.

Gaining Ryder is an outlier as we only had one ruck on our list entering the draft. So he meets short-term need. The others gained this year so far are all of benefit both immediately and long-term.

Looking to be better in 2020, and areal thread in 2022.

It's a good strategy, but realistically, probably half of that list is C grade at best. Then you have a solid contingent of B grade players, with with a smaller group of A graders.

*******************

C Grade:

Langlands, Mayo, Clavarino, Alabakis ??? (no idea who this is), Newnes, Young, Marsh, McCartin (will retire and just hasn't shown much), McKenzie, Joyce, Rice, Paton, White, Kent, Geary (used to be B grade in his earlier years, but will retire soon anyway), Phillips, Lonie, Sinclair, Austin, Dunstan, Butler, Coffield, Hind, Long (last four could be B grade based on glimpses of talent) - all the rest listed wouldn't get a game on another club's list, IMO.

********************

B Grade:

Bytel, Howard, Battle - (could become A grade) Jones, Wilkie, Brown, Ryder, Steele, Parker, Savage, Hannebery, (could get back to A grade, but unlikely IMO).

*********************

A Grade or Possible A Graders in future:

Billings, Gresham, Marshall, Carlisle, Roberton, Hill, M King, Clark, Ross

********************

Most lists that are heading in the right direction, have about two thirds B grade or better talent, and the rest C grade. Here it looks like you have around 55-45% in favour of C grade. This means your list still needs a bit of work. Will have to cull at least 15 or so of the C grade list, over the next 3 seasons. Definitely think 2022 is about where you starting getting into finals contention, based on the aforementioned.

Not trying to pot you guys, as I think you did really well this trade period. But Ross Lyon left you in a hole that you're just starting to crawl out of, so it'll take a few years yet to 'separate the wheat' from the chaff', so to speak.