Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Richo83]

It’s like Hawthorn haven’t defeated Cats, Pies or Giants and didn’t lose to Eagles by a kick and Lions due to conversion....without Mitchell.

I mean, if that’s the reality you live in your post makes complete sense, but otherwise it just reads as silly, considering the actual formline against the sides who have been in the top 4 for the majority of the year with O’meara and a 20yr old as the key mids.

And yet, in finals, this grouping was found wanting last year. The finals becomes more contested, and, as the game becomes more of an Auskick seconds rolling maul, Clarkson's high marking-kicking possession doesn't work as well in important matches when the pressure increases. I wish it did, the 2013-2015 Hawthorn was a great team to watch. But in 2016 and 2018, that gameplan didn't work and I don't think it will work in 2019 even if you did make the finals.

And what's the point of beating top four teams if you don't end up making finals anyway?

 

[cryptor]

2

Who are trying to prove that Sicily, a 187cm player, can play on big, powerful 195+cm key-forwards on a consistent basis. Naturally, being supporters of the club, you're inclined to believe the more favorable outlook.

It's a moot point either way, random match highlights don't prove anything in the context of a whole game. I know what I saw and nothing you say is going to change that.

Lol whatever you say mate. Enjoy your delusions.

Also even if Sicily didn't play on Hawkins, it would mean he played on Ratugolea who is also a big forward (197cm, 102kg) and he was held goalless. So point still stands.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

And yet, in finals, this grouping was found wanting last year.

So we’re looking back to 2018 now, instead of the actual output this year. Fantastic.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Jeez i remember when this thread was calling us the worst list in the comp, now we are just getting canned for not beating the 2nd (now equal first) best team in the comp the week after beating the best team in the comp. We were also in it for most of the day and probably could have won if we were not so wasteful.

Couldn't back it up after last weeks Grand Final

 

[MinerBoy]

Alright, now I'm 100% sure you're lying. I watched that game live can very clearly recall several aerial contests between Hawkins and Frawley, most of which were won by the latter.

It's pretty sad when you're so determined to make your point that you have to lie about your best defender going to Geelong's worst forward for most of the game. I'd move on if I were you.

I was at the game too and I recall Sicily being Hawkins main opponent for the day, with the knowledge that like all teams, players rotate throughout the day.

I also agree that despite that, Sicily isn’t our usual KPD and isn’t one in the Josh Gibson mould who would play the peel off 3rd defender and interceptor or genuine KPD.




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[Scotland]

So we’re looking back to 2018 now, instead of the actual output this year. Fantastic.

Have Hawthorn performed better in 2019 than 2018?

 

[Hawk Dork]

Have Hawthorn performed better in 2019 than 2018?

Its about 2020 and beyond
If you arent winning the cup your not performing well

 

[TonaldDrump]

Imagine trading out one of your best young players and first round draft picks for Wingard.

Still waiting to see why the Hawks paid so much for him.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Have Hawthorn performed better in 2019 than 2018?

2018 is irrelevant.

In 2019 we've beaten Top 4 sides with O'meara, Worpel and Shiels as our starting mids, so how does adding Mitchell not improve Hawthorn?

 

[Scotland]

2018 is irrelevant.

In 2019 we've beaten Top 4 sides with O'meara, Worpel and Shiels as our starting mids, so how does adding Mitchell not improve Hawthorn?

Who said you wouldn't improve in 2020?

Richo83 simply said that you were found wanting last year with Mitchell, which is true. Those other guys played last year.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Who said you wouldn't improve in 2020?

Richo83 simply said that you were found wanting last year with Mitchell, which is true. Those other guys played last year.

No, Richo argued that Hawthorn were not going to worry any top 4 sides. We already have.

"Eh, I'm not seeing what Hawthorn fans are seeing. A midfield of O'Meara, Mitchell, Shiels and... a bunch of outside runners still doesn't scare many teams in the top four."


I didn't even bother reading the stuff about 2018. It's irrelevant.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Imagine trading out one of your best young players and first round draft picks for Wingard.

Still waiting to see why the Hawks paid so much for him.

Well he has spent most of the season injured so of course you are... Like we all are.

Patience.

 

[Scotland]

No, Richo argued that Hawthorn were not going to worry any top 4 sides. We already have.

I didn't even bother reading the stuff about 2018. It's irrelevant.

Well you're not going to worry anyone in September which is when ladder positions matter. After 18 games you haven't beaten 3 of the top 4.

2019 will be irrelevant in a couple of weeks.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Well you're not going to worry anyone in September which is when ladder positions matter. After 18 games you haven't beaten 3 of the top 4.

2019 will be irrelevant in a couple of weeks.

 

[The Chad and I]

And yet, in finals, this grouping was found wanting last year. The finals becomes more contested, and, as the game becomes more of an Auskick seconds rolling maul, Clarkson's high marking-kicking possession doesn't work as well in important matches when the pressure increases. I wish it did, the 2013-2015 Hawthorn was a great team to watch. But in 2016 and 2018, that gameplan didn't work and I don't think it will work in 2019 even if you did make the finals.

And what's the point of beating top four teams if you don't end up making finals anyway?

Please tell us more.
As Hawthorn supporters we don't know much about finals football.

 

[its free real estate]

No, Richo argued that Hawthorn were not going to worry any top 4 sides. We already have.

I’m looking at a 1-5 win-loss record against the top four for Hawthorn this year. What do you mean by “worry”?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I’m looking at a 1-5 win-loss record against the top four for Hawthorn this year. What do you mean by “worry”?

Hawthorn lost by a kick to the Eagles after kicking 9.17.

On the weekend they kicked 7.18 and were in control for the majority of the day.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Hawthorn lost by a kick to the Eagles after kicking 9.17.

On the weekend they kicked 7.18 and were in control for the majority of the day.

Looks like Hawthorn lost the lead before half time and never regained it. Of course, 'in control for the majority of the day' probably means something different to Hawthorn supporters.

 

[its free real estate]

Hawthorn lost by a kick to the Eagles after kicking 9.17.

On the weekend they kicked 7.18 and were in control for the majority of the day.

That’s nice, I guess we could say we kicked 2.19 and had more inside 50s against West Coast a few weeks back and therefore “worried” them.

 

[its free real estate]

Just looked at Hawthorn’s side on the weekend. Average age of 27, but a median age of 28! Far from it being the case that Burgoyne is an outlier lifting the average, instead its their 20 year olds skewing the average down.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Looks like Hawthorn lost the lead before half time and never regained it. Of course, 'in control for the majority of the day' probably means something different to Hawthorn supporters.

Did you watch the game at all?

Every commentator said that Hawthorn had controlled the game but couldn’t score. It was plain to see.

Hawthorn were winning pretty much every key stat, apart from conversion.

Halfway through the third.

 

[its free real estate]

Did you watch the game at all?

Every commentator said that Hawthorn had controlled the game but couldn’t score. It was plain to see.

Hawthorn were winning pretty much every key stat, apart from conversion.

Halfway through the third.

View attachment 717272

I like this game



Freo moral premiers 2019

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Did you watch the game at all?

Every commentator said that Hawthorn had controlled the game but couldn’t score. It was plain to see.

Hawthorn were winning pretty much every key stat, apart from conversion.

Halfway through the third.

View attachment 717272

Yeah, I was supporting Hawthorn but they were pretty disappointing (as has been the case for most of 2019, if we're honest).

I also thought most people who watched footy in 2019 realised that inside 50s weren't really indicative of a dominant performance anymore. To me, those stats could easily indicate Hawthorn were bombing it aimlessly and generating poor shots while Brisbane were doing the opposite.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yeah, I was supporting Hawthorn but they were pretty disappointing (as has been the case for most of 2019, if we're honest).

I also thought most people who watched footy in 2019 realised that inside 50s weren't really indicative of a dominant performance anymore. To me, those stats could easily indicate Hawthorn were bombing it aimlessly and generating poor shots while Brisbane were doing the opposite.

This only tells me that you didn’t watch the game at all.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I like this game

View attachment 717273

Freo moral premiers 2019