Captain VB

[Freomaniac]

VB never hit the heights of Pav - his best has been ok, maybe slightly above average.

He's been woeful this year - but the coaching panel need to accept some responsibility for that.

With Danger, Smith, Crouch, Douglas, Lyons, Grigg, Kerridge and a couple of others starting to look good, and with his continued indifferent form, he'll potentially be borderline 22 next year.

Hypothetically, what would you put his trade value at?

Bit hard to say...Late 1st to early 2nd round pick, so around pick 17-22. Depends where the ckub finished on the ladder that wanted him.

If it was this time last year when the crows were good Pick 14-15 would of been fair. But Again its hard to say... Tyson Stenglein went to West coast, he was 24 years old and was in his prime. Crows got pick 12 and 28, West Coasts 1st and 2nd round pick to get him and crows traded pick 12 for scott thompson. Freo traded 11 27 and 45 to get Josh Carr. Pick 11 should of been enough.

If Freo finished last with Picks 1,19,37 and 53. Pick 19 would of been just short. If Freo got top Spot, with picks 18, 36, 54 and 72, Crows would of wanted picks 18 and 36, which would be fiar as he has 5 good years left.

 

[hugecannon]

Bit hard to say...Late 1st to early 2nd round pick, so around pick 17-22. Depends where the ckub finished on the ladder that wanted him.

If it was this time last year when the crows were good Pick 14-15 would of been fair. But Again its hard to say... Tyson Stenglein went to West coast, he was 24 years old and was in his prime. Crows got pick 12 and 28, West Coasts 1st and 2nd round pick to get him and crows traded pick 12 for scott thompson. Freo traded 11 27 and 45 to get Josh Carr. Pick 11 should of been enough.

If Freo finished last with Picks 1,19,37 and 53. Pick 19 would of been just short. If Freo got top Spot, with picks 18, 36, 54 and 72, Crows would of wanted picks 18 and 36, which would be fiar as he has 5 good years left.

I would do that trade in a heart beat, but it's not going to happen.

 

[GROTTO]

That's the dumbest thing I have ever read

Essendon's Captain - Jobe Watson
Melb - Jack Trengove
Giants - Tom Scully

I'd trade any of them in a heartbeat for VB.

My hand would be trembling with excitement and nervousness signing the clearance papers, that deal would be one of the best deals ever by the AFC. Especially Jobe, ie before the drug scandal.

 

[mattymac]

The simple fact about vB is his sustained form slump means he is no longer warranted as an automatic selection. On that basis alone his position as captain is untenable.

 

[Vader]

Yes I would. Crowley is the best tagger in the comp at the moment. VB is the worst.

No.. he's not - and repeating it ad infinitum doesn't make it any more true. It's also has absolutely nothing to do with VB being Captain of our team.

 

[Vader]

The simple fact about vB is his sustained form slump means he is no longer warranted as an automatic selection. On that basis alone his position as captain is untenable.

Wrong again.. His last month has actually been pretty good and his position in the team has never been in any doubt, Captain or not. 100% wrong on all accusations. Congratulations - it takes talent to be as wrong as this post.

 

[mattymac]

Wrong again.. His last month has actually been pretty good and his position in the team has never been in any doubt, Captain or not. 100% wrong on all accusations. Congratulations - it takes talent to be as wrong as this post.

My word your propensity for fanboi cluelessness continues to amaze. You see vader dear, the captaincy doesn't run on a rolling month to month basis. captains need to be an automatic selection for at least a season at a time.

You inadvertently expose your own folly in that vB's form has, as you point out, warranted selection only over the last month our so, whereas for much of the season we've been carrying him just cos he's the captain.

That's an untenable position, A) because it's embarrassing; and B) because it leads to us keeping a better performing young mid out of the side to make room for an underperforming captain who could be dropped if he didn't hold that title.

If you are not an automatic selection you shouldn't be captain and I think most football people who have followed the crows closely this year would agree his output over the season hasn't guaranteed automatic selection for the duration of next year.

 

[Vader]

My word your propensity for fanboi cluelessness continues to amaze. You see vader dear, the captaincy doesn't run on a rolling month to month basis. captains need to be an automatic selection for at least a season at a time.

His selection has never been in doubt at any point in the season.

You inadvertently expose your own folly in that vB's form has, as you point out, warranted selection only over the last month our so, whereas for much of the season we've been carrying him just cos he's the captain.

You're misquoting me there - whether intentionally or not. I said his form has been good for the last month or so. I didn't make any comment at all about his form earlier in the season. I certainly didn't say that his form only warranted selection over the last month or so. That's complete and utter rubbish - and 100% wrong, like the rest of your previous post.

While VB's form earlier in the season was down on previous years, so was everyone else's. His position was never in any doubt, because even at his worst there were still a large number of players performing worse than him. He was never in the bottom 5 performers - and hence never in the danger zone for being dropped.

That's an untenable position, A) because it's embarrassing; and B) because it leads to us keeping a better performing young mid out of the side to make room for an underperforming captain who could be dropped if he didn't hold that title.

If you are not an automatic selection you shouldn't be captain and I think most football people who have followed the crows closely this year would agree his output over the season hasn't guaranteed automatic selection for the duration of next year.

It would be untenable, if there were even the slightest degree of truth to anything you've written. Unfortunately for you, you're continuing with your 0% average.

VB is and always has been an automatic selection. It really is that simple. He's played almost every game this year (missing R4-6 due to injury) and his selection has never been in any doubt - nor will it be in any doubt in 2014 either.

There are no "better perfoming mids" who are being left out of the team because of him.

So.. you're still batting at 0%, care to go for a 3rd strike in a row?

 

[mattymac]

Lol he's an automatic selection this year only because he's the captain. Strip the captaincy away and he's an underperforming tagger who can't be hidden anywhere else on the ground.

 

[Vader]

Lol he's an automatic selection this year only because he's the captain. Strip the captaincy away and he's an underperforming tagger who can't be hidden anywhere else on the ground.

Wrong on both accounts. He is an automatic selection first, Captain second. He's also a performing tagger, who is quite capable of playing as an inside midfielder in his own right - but who plays the role of tagger out of need (ie we don't have anyone else filling that role). He is also an excellent leader - one of the very best in the club's history.

 

[mattymac]

Wrong on both accounts. He is an automatic selection first, Captain second. He's also a performing tagger, who is quite capable of playing as an inside midfielder in his own right - but who plays the role of tagger out of need (ie we don't have anyone else filling that role). He is also an excellent leader - one of the very best in the club's history.

Fanboi <3

 

[Vader]

Fanboi <3

Hardly. But someone has to provide a balance against all the crap that gets thrown at him these days, now that Douglas is performing at close to an AA level and Doughty is retired, stripping people of their two favourite whipping boys.

 

[mattymac]

He's probably been a better leader than mcguinness, I'll pay that.

One of the best in the club's history? Yeah nah.

 

[cmndstab]

As a leader, he'd be right up there. Mind you, we've been blessed with strong leaders for our short history.

Obviously as a player he's one of our weakest captains (probably the weakest) but suggestions that he would be dropped if not for his captainship are fanciful. He's not that fashionable but he's well and truly in the best 22.

 

[mattymac]

Obviously as a player he's one of our weakest captains (probably the weakest) but suggestions that he would be dropped if not for his captainship are fanciful. He's not that fashionable but he's well and truly in the best 22.

The suggestion is that given we have a rising battery of quality young mids we can't afford to have our hands tied at selection next season by being forced to select vB because he is captain. His form this year has far from warranted viewing him as an automatic selection for the duration of next season.

Since we can't be reasonably sure, based on this year's poor form, that he'll be an automatic selection for the duration of next year, he shouldn't be captain. We need the flexibility at the selection table to be able to drop him for a better performing midfield option if he has runs of poor form again.

 

[cmndstab]

You don't demote a captain because you're worried you might have too much performing youth in the following season.

 

[Team DJ]

You don't demote a captain because you're worried you might have too much performing youth in the following season.

But do you when that player fits into the category of players 15-25 rather then 1-15?

 

[Kizaman]

Wrong again.. His last month has actually been pretty good and his position in the team has never been in any doubt, Captain or not.

Last month? As in like half a game...

 

[Vader]

He's probably been a better leader than mcguinness, I'll pay that.

One of the best in the club's history? Yeah nah.

Differentiate leadership from playing ability. As a leader, he's one of the best. As a player, he's probably on par with McGuinness as the weakest of the Adelaide Captains.

 

[Vader]

But do you when that player fits into the category of players 15-25 rather then 1-15?

His Club Champion record over the last decade says you couldn't be further off the mark if you tried.

 

[mattymac]

You don't demote a captain because you're worried you might have too much performing youth in the following season.

You demote your captain if you're worried he won't be able to hold his position for the entirety of the next season.

 

[The Karma Bus]

Wrong on both accounts. He is an automatic selection first, Captain second. He's also a performing tagger, who is quite capable of playing as an inside midfielder in his own right - but who plays the role of tagger out of need (ie we don't have anyone else filling that role). He is also an excellent leader - one of the very best in the club's history.

Look at the jobs that Kornes, Crowley etc, even Raines do when they tag..
Again on the weekend, VB is tagging Hill - Hill is on 16 possessions at half time.. Tags Pendlebury, Pendlebury is on 19.. He beat up on a kid from West Coast though

He's been good? You criticize the absolute hell out of players you have barely (or haven't at all) seen play, yet VB has been good when he's been serving up shit sandwiches..

Hardly. But someone has to provide a balance against all the crap that gets thrown at him these days, now that Douglas is performing at close to an AA level and Doughty is retired, stripping people of their two favourite whipping boys.

You've just admitted that if a player performs (Douglas) people aren't whipping them anymore.. Which means people don't do it for the hell of it.. Douglas was very very average, this year he has been great.. If VB did similar, there would be no problem with him.. Earn the credit by performing..

 

[Vader]

You've just admitted that if a player performs (Douglas) people aren't whipping them anymore.. Which means people don't do it for the hell of it.. Douglas was very very average, this year he has been great.. If VB did similar, there would be no problem with him.. Earn the credit by performing..

People love to see flashy play. Players who aren't flashy, who just do their jobs week in week out, quickly become whipping boys - whether they deserve it or not. Doughty was one of this board's favourite whipping boys for the last few years of his career, once the "young Mick Doughty" jokes finally wore thin. He did absolutely nothing to deserve it, being one of the club's most consistent and reliable defenders in our entire history - but that didn't stop the BF lunatic society from bagging him mercilessly.

Performance and whipping boy status have nothing to do with each other. Do not confuse them.

 

[Team DJ]

His Club Champion record over the last decade says you couldn't be further off the mark if you tried.

Darren Jamans was pretty good in history too. I dont think he is still top 10 though

 

[Vader]

You demote your captain if you're worried he won't be able to hold his position for the entirety of the next season.

In which case there is no reason to demote VB. He's got 3 years left to run on his contract and I expect him to play 60+ games in that period.