Religion Cardinal George Pell

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#77
Heffernan accused justice Kirby of being a paedophile on the basis of what turned out to be forged documents, I’m not saying he’s wrong on his later accusations but I’d want a bit more than his word.

He claimed the documents he was in possession of (the later ones) came from the wood Royal Commission, I would think that their authenticity shouldn’t be too hard to verify if that were the case. For some reason he never pursued it further, which would be uncharacteristic of him if they were genuine.

I agree with you though, these kind of allegations should be thoroughly investigated.
It makes you wonder though, even if he was lying he was lying for a reason.

I remember once that there was this character in Parliament House who resembled a potato, and this potato-looking individual had allegedly committed some activity that could make him be referred to the High Court. Yet he then allegedly came walking into Parliament House one day with some folders, labeled with members of the opposition. For some funny reason this potato-looking individual was not referred to the High Court. Turns out he didn't actually have anything in these folders...?

That's how Parliament House, and other aspects of Australia's hierarchical system allegedly works.

Makes you wonder what we are voting for.
 
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#78
It makes you wonder though, even if he was lying he was lying for a reason.

I remember once that there was this character in Parliament House who resembled a potato, and this potato-looking individual had allegedly committed some activity that could make him be referred to the High Court. Yet he then allegedly came walking into Parliament House one day with some folders, labeled with members of the opposition. For some funny reason this potato-looking individual was not referred to the High Court. Turns out he didn't actually have anything in these folders...?

That's how Parliament House, and other aspects of Australia's hierarchical system allegedly works.

Makes you wonder what we are voting for.
You bring up an interesting point RupieDupie if Aunty Sarah were to get $35.00 on the side, on top of her family allowance, to help pay for her randomly-increased-by-20%-power-bill, and she will have a Centrelink RoboDebt collector on her, harassment and threats of garnishing of salary by the ATO, a $40.00 administration fee for the late payment of the $35.00, and various other government authorities and debt collectors trying to stick their dick into her.

Yet we are finding out some stuff about certain institutions and individuals who have been acting in an improper manner... where were the watchdogs? How come Royal Commissions and whistleblowers are more effective than the organisations paid to do this job?
 

CD Xbow

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#79
It makes you wonder though, even if he was lying he was lying for a reason.

I remember once that there was this character in Parliament House who resembled a potato, and this potato-looking individual had allegedly committed some activity that could make him be referred to the High Court. Yet he then allegedly came walking into Parliament House one day with some folders, labeled with members of the opposition. For some funny reason this potato-looking individual was not referred to the High Court. Turns out he didn't actually have anything in these folders...?

That's how Parliament House, and other aspects of Australia's hierarchical system allegedly works.

Makes you wonder what we are voting for.
Go on say it, which potato, Dutton or Clive Palmer?

BTW the Murdoch press are going full steam ahead supporting Pell, no more tough on crime for News Corp when it's a mate. Mr Abbott would seemed to have opened himself up to some legitimate attacks from his opponents by being so supportive of Pell, who now can be characterised as a convicted paedophile.
 

Pie eyed

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#80
An accusation in the early 70’s of him fondling boys at a pool.
Nothing for 20 years and then two accusations of him raping altar boys in the 90’s.
Nothing since.
Pedophiles don’t behave like that. There’s no chance that he’s a pedophile and I’ve heard multiple rumours that those present at his trial couldn’t believe the verdict.
You really are making yourself appear an ignorant fool.
 

Northalives

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#81
The easiest thing on earth is to accuse people of this that or the other thing. The accusations must be proven in a court of law and as far as the accusations against Pell, one was tested in court and evidence was submitted and in a unanimous decision, the jury found him guilty.

Cardinal George Pell is a convicted paedophile and those that try and defend him or give him glowing character references after the decision of the Court, these people are nothing more, nor nothing less, than paedophile facilitators and it is because of people like this, people in positions of high public office, that put up walls and barricades for paedophiles to hide behind.
 

tombomb

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#82
The easiest thing on earth is to accuse people of this that or the other thing. The accusations must be proven in a court of law and as far as the accusations against Pell, one was tested in court and evidence was submitted and in a unanimous decision, the jury found him guilty.

Cardinal George Pell is a convicted paedophile and those that try and defend him or give him glowing character references after the decision of the Court, these people are nothing more, nor nothing less, than paedophile facilitators and it is because of people like this, people in positions of high public office, that put up walls and barricades for paedophiles to hide behind.
So if someone is just skeptical based on the available evidence, that a case has been proven beyond reasonable doubt - they are a peadeophile facilitator - whatever that is.

So the people who fought for the innocence of Andrew Mallard, who spent 12 years in prison for a murder he didnt commit, were just murder facilitators.
 

Lebbo73

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#83
You really are making yourself appear an ignorant fool.
I agree that it was a mistake for me to say that there is next to no chance that Pell is a pedo. It is more likely that he’s a pedo enabler but I haven’t been convinced of this yet.
 

Northalives

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#84
So if someone is just skeptical based on the available evidence, that a case has been proven beyond reasonable doubt - they are a peadeophile facilitator - whatever that is.

So the people who fought for the innocence of Andrew Mallard, who spent 12 years in prison for a murder he didnt commit, were just murder facilitators.
Mallard's conviction was proved to be unsafe because of the Western Australian Police's "shoddy", to put it nicely, investigation and presentation of evidence and the conviction was later quashed and a retrial ordered but the charges against him were dropped. The Commission on Crime and Corruption recommended that two assistant police commissioners and the deputy director of public prosecution should face disciplinary action.

In Pell's case, the witnesses gave evidence supporting the accusations against Pell and the Jury unanimously found him guilty, in other words, they believed the witnesses and the case against pell was not reliant on forensically obtained evidence as in Mallard's case.

It seems that if the "mates" club had it their way, Pell along with Nestor and others would still be held up as paragons of virtue and those that still commit paedophilia and other heinous crimes, would feel comfortable that they will be protected if they know the right people and had friends in high places, that is, the likes of Abbott, Howard and a shit load of Murdoch press flunkeys would, in effect, be facilitating there paedophilia by setting up those barricades I spoke of earlier.

It maybe hard for some to fathom, but there are people who would rather turn a blind eye to child abuse being committed upon their own children or relatives in order for there not to be a scandal! Most child abuse victims are abused by their relatives or a person in authority known to them, people in a position of trust.

In our judicial system, if your are found guilty, then you are guilty and unlike the Mallard case which you reference, the intended appeal by Pell is not based on new evidence or evidence not disclosed or tampered with, Pell is intending to appeal on procedural grounds; nothing to do with the evidence.

Pell is a convicted paedophile and Howard, Abbott, the old boys network with the support of the Murdoch flunkies, by their public utterances, leave one in no doubt that they do not give a rat's arse about the victims and if they had it there way, all of these grotesque crimes committed by their mates, would not see the light of day. They facilitate heinous crimes, paedophilia and don't worry tombomb, those of us in South Australia know what the f*** we are talking about; nudge nudge, wink wink!
 

Northalives

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#86
Yeah. They are damning but just accusations nevertheless. The question is, will they be investigated?

The third part of his appeal, "defence lawyer should not have been stopped from using a “moving visual representation” as part of its closing argument." reeks of what Howard, Abbott et al are trying to do: paint him as a "saint" that couldn't possibly commit the things he is accused of doing.
 

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#87
The naked in the surf club instance while creepy isn't substantive. There's always one dude rocking around naked in a change room, or the kind of guy who takes a piss next to you at work and wants to talk, I wouldn't call either sex pests.
 

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#88
The naked in the surf club instance while creepy isn't substantive. There's always one dude rocking around naked in a change room, or the kind of guy who takes a piss next to you at work and wants to talk, I wouldn't call either sex pests.
In fairness, the allegation was a bit more than that.
 

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#93
Then why did 2 separate witnesses give very similar statements & 1 warned Pell not to come back or he would report him to Police if there wasn't much in it.

What grown man hangs around naked in change rooms staring at naked young boys? The same type of man who then fondles the genitals & anus of kids in a pool... then took it even further...
 

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#94
Then why did 2 separate witnesses give very similar statements & 1 warned Pell not to come back or he would report him to Police if there wasn't much in it.

What grown man hangs around naked in change rooms staring at naked young boys? The same type of man who then fondles the genitals & anus of kids in a pool... then took it even further...
Yeah you're reading it in the context of other events. The event itself is nothing special.
 

PP34

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#95
I just don't get how anyone can still be defending Pell.

All these accusations. Years apart from each other. In completely different areas of Victoria with people who would never have even met each other. It's not like they all could have just taken a disliking to Pell and decided to stitch him up.

And what do any of them have to gain by lying? Why would multiple lying people want to go through the stress of a court case and being put under the microscope in the court?

The only reason they all came out like this is because Pell became a public figure. If they truly did get molested by Pell it would have been sickening seeing this guy in the media for years and years, presented as Australia's most important Catholic.

Pell was just lucky he worked for such a powerful institution and molesting of young boys years ago isn't exactly the easiest thing to prosecute.
 

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#96
Yeah you're reading it in the context of other events. The event itself is nothing special.
So why did the guy threaten to go to the Police if he came back.

Do you think it's normal behaviour for an adult male to hang around naked whilst staring at naked young kids? How is this nothing special?
 

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#97
So why did the guy threaten to go to the Police if he came back.

Do you think it's normal behaviour for an adult male to hang around naked whilst staring at young kids? How is this nothing special?
There are tonnes of overreactions towards single men around young kids where the situation is innocuous. Even fathers get questioned by concerned onlookers taking their own children to changing rooms / toilets / etc. Unless there was an observation of abuse, an accuser's paranoid suspicion is not sufficient.
 

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#98
So why did the guy threaten to go to the Police if he came back.

Do you think it's normal behaviour for an adult male to hang around naked whilst staring at naked young kids? How is this nothing special?
It's not normal behaviour at all.

“He was just standing there, naked, in full view of the three boys and just staring at the boys,” he later told the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse."

Does certainly not equate to:

There's always one dude rocking around naked in a change room, or the kind of guy who takes a piss next to you at work and wants to talk.
 

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#99
There are tonnes of overreactions towards single men around young kids where the situation is innocuous. Even fathers get questioned by concerned onlookers taking their own children to changing rooms / toilets / etc. Unless there was an observation of abuse, an accuser's paranoid suspicion is not sufficient.
Yet if we are complacent like you, this behaviour if not stopped can turn into something much worse... like child abuse.

I went to a church kids CEBS group when I was less than 10 which was run by a guy called Rob Brandenburg. Apparently told my Dad after 1 session that he creeped me out & didn't want to go back. I don't recall telling Dad that, but he reminded me when Brandeburg was convicted decades later for multiple crimes... so I was lucky that I was a strong willed kid unlike others who were abused.

We must be vigilant if our gut feel is something is not right.
 

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It's not normal behaviour at all.

“He was just standing there, naked, in full view of the three boys and just staring at the boys,” he later told the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse."

Does certainly not equate to:
Tyack's perception does not necessarily equate to abuse. There are always shrill over-reactors - do you remember Rudd's reaction to Bill Henson's art?
 
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