News Carlton AFLW Full Scale Review - UPDATE: Harford & Blues part ways

[blueboy25]

The impression I got from that statement was that it was mainly due to Harford not being able to commit to the role full-time (I’m guessing due to his radio gig, amongst other things). Though could also be a polite way of saying he was no longer suitable for the role, who knows…

Freo also still looking for a head coach, so that makes two clubs on the hunt. Will be interesting to see how this continues to play out.

Seems a lot of the dockers players are keen on Lisa Webb who is part of the Dogs AFLW coaching set up and her husband is part of the mens program at the dogs.

She doesn't seem keen on heading back to Perth so hopefully we will be speaking to her.

 

[bigblueboy]

Would like to give mention to Brian Cook at this level too.

On many issues they share the same mindset.

Where they differ they're able to work together to identify the best interests of the club moving forward.

The times they are a changing.

Interesting observation. I would have thought what has happened with the AFLW is exactly what the men’s team went through under previous regimes … when it goes to hell, the coach is the first one punted.
Method might be different … same result: a crisis.

 

[bigblueboy]

In fairness, the model the AFL has put together has done anything but establish team ethos. They are about establishing the women’s game and don’t care much for the clubs.

100pc this

 

[Revenant1965]

Ahh, the younger generation...
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
Socrates (c. 470–399 BC)

 

[thylacine60]

they walk out of employment with "little qualms" what is a little qualm anyway? are they stealing these qualms from stationery on the way to another job?

 

[Elmer_Judd]

100pc this

The A League take their women's game and league far more serious than the AFL.

Case in point, they have now changed the name of the women's league from the W-League to A League's Women (to go along with A League's Men)

They also take their training facilities and coaching far more seriously than AFLW.

Australian Soccer Legend Patrick Kisnorbo who is the first Australian to coach in a top 5 European Football/Soccer League in the world (France/Ligue 1) started his coaching teeth at my club's women's team Melbourne City, won a few titles with them before moving on to our men's team and becoming our most successful manager in our history and taken us from being a joke to now the most dominant/powerhouse club in Australia and one of the most influential in the global/Asian football community and now he is having success in one of the most beautiful and civilised countries in the world. So proud of him and my club for giving him that pathway coaching the girls.

Not bad for a workhorse of a player who started his coaching/managerial career coaching young women.
.
Couldn't hurt for Sayers and the board to actually go on a tour of Melbourne City FC's facilities and discuss with them on how to construct a strong and decent women's program.

 

[BigFrizz36]

It's funny I have nor heard one AFLW players come out and complain about the GSW's player to not wear the Pride Rainbow Jumper.

She was happy to play in the pride round game with GWS, just not wear the rainbow pride jumper.

Quite frankly if her teammates and the rest of the AFLW players don't have a problem with it, than I don't have a problem with it.

This issue sadly has also highlighted the blatant racism and Islamaphobia in this country.

I find it disgusting and abhorrent she is being compared with Margaret Court and Israel Folau by some annoying RIght Wingers and annoying SJWs. She has never made one homophobic or inflammatory remark about the LGBT community, unfortunately it's just an excuse for some ignorant people to get on the witch hunt.

As I say, the players don't have a problem with her not wearing the jumper, neither should I or anyone else for that matter (who are straight anyway)

Well done Elmer. Not only are you all over the shop, you've gone to every point of it.

Reckon that you have a good heart though.

 

[BigFrizz36]

The A League take their women's game and league far more serious than the AFL.

Case in point, they have now changed the name of the women's league from the W-League to A League's Women (to go along with A League's Men)

They also take their training facilities and coaching far more seriously than AFLW.

Australian Soccer Legend Patrick Kisnorbo who is the first Australian to coach in a top 5 European Football/Soccer League in the world (France/Ligue 1) started his coaching teeth at my club's women's team Melbourne City, won a few titles with them before moving on to our men's team and becoming our most successful manager in our history and taken us from being a joke to now the most dominant/powerhouse club in Australia and one of the most influential in the global/Asian football community and now he is having success in one of the most beautiful and civilised countries in the world. So proud of him and my club for giving him that pathway coaching the girls.

Not bad for a workhorse of a player who started his coaching/managerial career coaching young women.
.
Couldn't hurt for Sayers and the board to actually go on a tour of Melbourne City FC's facilities and discuss with them on how to construct a strong and decent women's program.

Come on Elmer. Kisnorbo has done well to get an interim coaching job for a relegation threatened club, but with one win from eight starts his future is far from assured.

Clearly women's soccer players get great international opportunities, but as it currently stands AFLW players earn more than women's A league players with the minimum payment bring more and rising to be significantly more.

We have excellent state of the art facilities. We have indicated that we have let our woman's program just drift along, and Sayers and Cook and co (that we think are pretty good at their job) have indicated that they will do whatever it takes to fix.

I think that you need to take off you slavish fandom of Melbourne city and their petrodollars glasses. I'm not sure that they have anything to offer here.

 

[katmanblue]

the past 5000 years.

We'll have to take your first hand account of this.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

Gold

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jeremias]

What consequence should Haneen suffer because she refused to wear the jumper?

No play, no match fee.

The embarrassment of having her name dragged through the issue is enough.

That's freedom of belief, not freedom of speech.

Come on Elmer. Freedom of speech goes beyond the spoken word.

Don’t try and get into technicalities here.

She didn't play that week and I assume didn't get her match payment, that's a pretty hefty consequence.

A hefty consequence? It’s the bare minimum of what would be expected.

Her teammates have accepted her and her reasons for not playing, we may not have to like or agree with it, but we should respect it.

How do you know they’ve accepted her?

She can choose to do whatever she likes. That doesn’t mean she’s immune from the backlash.

There should be room for more flexibility and understanding when it comes to contentious issues like Pride Jumpers, otherwise this issue will continue to stir the pot and cause needless divides in the sporting community (Cairns Taipans NBL team being the latest controversy)

Yes let’s all spare a thought for the oppressed. Oh wait.

The issue will continue to stir the pot because there’s a right and wrong here.

This is not a black and white issue, it's just too complex for that.

It is exactly black and white.

Only those who try and weasel their way out of progress and existence in a modern society go looking for grey.

 

[CJMB]

Wrong.

Never in recent history has a generation been so willing to jump from one job/employer to the next with little qualms about it

Maybe ‘the ladder’ ain’t what it used to be?

Maybe the job market ain’t what it used to be?

Maybe the career options ain’t what they used to be?

Maybe previous generations hadn’t clicked that it’s sometimes easier to actually get market rate (or above) by moving somewhere new?

Maybe employers ain’t what they used to be? and why stay in an environment that’s not ideal - be it uninspiring, poorly managed, boring or just flat out toxic - when you can move and actually enjoy your life?

Or maybe there will always be an old man yelling at the clouds?

 

[CJMB]

The A League take their women's game and league far more serious than the AFL.

Case in point, they have now changed the name of the women's league from the W-League to A League's Women (to go along with A League's Men)

They also take their training facilities and coaching far more seriously than AFLW.

Australian Soccer Legend Patrick Kisnorbo who is the first Australian to coach in a top 5 European Football/Soccer League in the world (France/Ligue 1) started his coaching teeth at my club's women's team Melbourne City, won a few titles with them before moving on to our men's team and becoming our most successful manager in our history and taken us from being a joke to now the most dominant/powerhouse club in Australia and one of the most influential in the global/Asian football community and now he is having success in one of the most beautiful and civilised countries in the world. So proud of him and my club for giving him that pathway coaching the girls.

Not bad for a workhorse of a player who started his coaching/managerial career coaching young women.
.
Couldn't hurt for Sayers and the board to actually go on a tour of Melbourne City FC's facilities and discuss with them on how to construct a strong and decent women's program.

FWIW the Australian Rugby 7s were the first team globally to take it as far as pay equality for the men & women.

To be fair, the ladies are f****** fantastic and completely s*** on the men’s in terms of success, but none the less a fair achievement.

 

[David Sylvian]

The A League take their women's game and league far more serious than the AFL.

Case in point, they have now changed the name of the women's league from the W-League to A League's Women (to go along with A League's Men)

They also take their training facilities and coaching far more seriously than AFLW.

Australian Soccer Legend Patrick Kisnorbo who is the first Australian to coach in a top 5 European Football/Soccer League in the world (France/Ligue 1) started his coaching teeth at my club's women's team Melbourne City, won a few titles with them before moving on to our men's team and becoming our most successful manager in our history and taken us from being a joke to now the most dominant/powerhouse club in Australia and one of the most influential in the global/Asian football community and now he is having success in one of the most beautiful and civilised countries in the world. So proud of him and my club for giving him that pathway coaching the girls.

Not bad for a workhorse of a player who started his coaching/managerial career coaching young women.
.
Couldn't hurt for Sayers and the board to actually go on a tour of Melbourne City FC's facilities and discuss with them on how to construct a strong and decent women's program.

Just on that last bit, who’s to say they didn’t?

 

[OldBlueFan]

Maybe expansion and more money and not enough talent to go around has favoured certain Clubs more than others - I wouldn't be trying to build a better performing team around excuses about why they haven't been performing though - that was the excuse death cycle that the AFL team went through after the penalties imposed on the club after salary cap 'cheating'. Exccuses which people drew on to justify 20 years of embarrassment and incompetence.

I think it's patently obvious that the club isn't using any of that as an "excuse", else why did they call the review?

But to suggest that there was "no serious mentoring or development" is clearly hyperbole when quite a few players were indeed able to improve and develop their game during the period in question.

Can we just try to be a little more rational and balanced in this discussion?

 

[JustaBattler]

I think it's patently obvious that the club isn't using any of that as an "excuse", else why did they call the review?

But to suggest that there was "no serious mentoring or development" is clearly hyperbole when quite a few players were indeed able to improve and develop their game during the period in question.

Can we just try to be a little more rational and balanced in this discussion?

If you don't approve of the phrase 'no serious' - that is fine by me.

 

[OldBlueFan]

If you don't approve of the phrase 'no serious' - that is fine by me.

You said "sans serious mentoring or development", meaning that there was none at all. Obviously that's an extreme take, and is refuted by the simple fact that there have been players who have improved and developed in the last few years.

Comments like that are no better than "Harf was always a sh*t coach", despite the fact that he got the team into a GF and well on their way to a second.

I get that everyone's disappointed with the trajectory the team has been on over the last two seasons, but the hyperbole does nothing to add to the discussion.

 

[JustaBattler]

You said "sans serious mentoring or development", meaning that there was none at all. Obviously that's an extreme take, and is refuted by the simple fact that there have been players who have improved and developed in the last few years.

Comments like that are no better than "Harf was always a sh*t coach", despite the fact that he got the team into a GF and well on their way to a second.

I get that everyone's disappointed with the trajectory the team has been on over the last two seasons, but the hyperbole does nothing to add to the discussion.

FYI this is the trail of what I wrote in response to what the club published...

The coach thought that his coaching at Carlton was a "side hussle and a passion project...." seemed relieved to have been asked to leave tbh - what a wasted few years it has been for all concerned - and yes - the Club seems to have bene happy for him to run his own show - until it wasnt.

This is what I wrote in conversation with Thy - note that it references what Hartford (and the Club said themselves) and note that I stated " I feel sorry for a lot of young women ..." YOU decided to shorten that to suit YOUR POV and exclude a lot and also miss the point entirely- which was that the the Club and the coaches who are responsible for player mentoring and development - by their own words were not performing

for me things went off the rails at the time of the Tayla drama....then teams started to be fitter faster and play with more skill....
clearly a combination of coaching/mentoring and lack of investment by teh Club in terms of oversight - as Hartford mentioned himself - the focus was on fixing the men's team...

IMO womens comp is pretty much wide open every year and things can improve pretty fast over the next couple of years if they get some basics right.

I feel sorry for a lot of the young women having to play sans serious mentoring and development - no reason for that state of affairs to have gone on for one year - let alone 2-3.

here is my response to you

Maybe expansion and more money and not enough talent to go around has favoured certain Clubs more than others - I wouldn't be trying to build a better performing team around excuses about why they haven't been performing though - that was the excuse death cycle that the AFL team went through after the penalties imposed on the club after salary cap 'cheating'. Exccuses which people drew on to justify 20 years of embarrassment and incompetence.

here is my response to another poster's comment

Reeks of "how did he get the job in the first place?" questions requiring answers to me. Anyone who describes his coaching stint as a 'side hussle' and 'passion project' should never have been hired in the first place - but I guess that was also done under different regimes. First chance Sayers and Cook got as decision makers- and he was 'bye bye'd'.

I think you have misquoted and misrepresented what I actually wrote and characterized it as "adding nothing to the discussion"

Clearly your agenda for whatever reason is some defense of Hartford - you are welcome to defend him but try and do so without selective (and misleading) quotation and inflammatory accusations

If you think Hartford isn't central to the women's team decline in performance- and that the Club has erred in letting him go - despite having another year left on his contract - put an argument on the table.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

You said "sans serious mentoring or development", meaning that there was none at all. Obviously that's an extreme take, and is refuted by the simple fact that there have been players who have improved and developed in the last few years.

Comments like that are no better than "Harf was always a sh*t coach", despite the fact that he got the team into a GF and well on their way to a second.

I get that everyone's disappointed with the trajectory the team has been on over the last two seasons, but the hyperbole does nothing to add to the discussion.

I think the fact the club's board has (finally) launched a serious and full length investigation and hopefully improvement about out women's team operations suggests that me that Harford was clearly far from the only factor/reason why why our women's team has not performed to expectations the past couple of seasons (although granted, in these type of reviews anywhere the coach is almost the first person to go in these culls)

Financial considerations aside, it strikes me that the culture and harmony in our women's game group may not be as ideal then what it was under the first couple of years under Harf's coaching.

Been my own observations that whenever a team (in either men's or women's competitions) don't win as much as they should (especially under a brief golden period previously) than often tempers and scape goating/blaming arises and the whole club environment becomes toxic.

I suspect part of this did happen because our club's board didn't pay attention to the disenfrancement of our AFLW players sooner (which is what I suspect Harford may have alluded to)

We have to try cultivate a positive and fun playing environment for our players first and foremost, along with a new coach first.

I am no expect but I do believe it's time we appointed a female as our AFLW senior head coach, because I suspect our girls need a totally new type of perspective and mentoring, and a woman would give that to them (although I think Daisy Pearce, much as I respect her, needs a couple of years in the system as an assistant first)

We have to get our next AFLW coaching appointment absolutely spot on

 

[Aphrodite]

Forget Daisy Pearce!


From June 2022 ...

Daisy Pearce to coach at Geelong

Daisy Pearce is set to coach in Geelong.

www.geelongcats.com.au

 

[thylacine60]

the tide will soon turn at sleepy valley and all the ants who crawled down there for some honey will be lying upside down on the window sill...........

 

[OldBlueFan]

FYI this is the trail of what I wrote in response to what the club published...


This is what I wrote in conversation with Thy - note that it references what Hartford (and the Club said themselves) and note that I stated " I feel sorry for a lot of young women ..." YOU decided to shorten that to suit YOUR POV and exclude a lot and also miss the point entirely- which was that the the Club and the coaches who are responsible for player mentoring and development - by their own words were not performing

here is my response to you

here is my response to another poster's comment


I think you have misquoted and misrepresented what I actually wrote and characterized it as "adding nothing to the discussion"

Clearly your agenda for whatever reason is some defense of Hartford - you are welcome to defend him but try and do so without selective (and misleading) quotation and inflammatory accusations

You seem to have taken everything I've said out of context.

I highlighted the line that I was referring to from your original post, and I simply asked if that line was "over the top". I gave you my reasons for asking.

The only "agenda" I have here is that extreme comments don't help. They just inflame everyone's emotions and prop those who want to just rant about everything.

By the way, my last comment about Harf was not even directed specifically at you. It was a reference, again, to extreme comments labeling his entire coaching tenure as a failure, when it clearly wasn't.

If you think Hartford isn't central to the women's team decline in performance- and that the Club has erred in letting him go - despite having another year left on his contract - put an argument on the table.

Has Harford had a role to play in the team's decline in performance? Certainly. Has he been the only, or even primary factor? I'm not so sure.

Personally I think an equally significant element has been a personnel problem, particularly since the departure of Harris (which I think you mentioned yourself earlier). The loss of a tall focal point in attack has simply never been overcome; and it was pivotal to the team's method of scoring. Not so much in terms of what a tall marking target contributed themselves, but in what they enabled the smaller forwards to achieve around them. It looked like the team had something of a replacement with Courtney Jones, but then she was lost as well. So they went and drafted Mia Austin and grabbed Phoebe McWilliams, who both went down with injury. Of the other options tried, Serena Gibbs was in her first season back from a long mental-health lay-off, and Jess Good was about 8 games into her AFL career (at the start of the season).

On top of that, in the most recent season, the team lost a prime midfielder in MP to the 'stains, and then lost Maddy Guerin very early in the season. Forcing Mimi Hill into a different role.

After that, the whole thing had an air of shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

As to whether the club has erred, that obviously remains to be seen. Given what I've listed above, I don't know that there are many coaches that could have achieved a whole lot more, but maybe they are out there. Maybe converting it to a full-time role will help, maybe some additional support will help also.

But with the bullsh!t draft we've got for next season, I don't think things are set to improve dramatically, unless the club find some recruiting and development geniuses between now and then.

 

[Arr0w]

CARLTON has appointed Ash Naulty as its interim head of women's football

 

[Aphrodite]

CARLTON has appointed Ash Naulty as its interim head of women's football

AFLW Latest News - AFL.com.au/aflw

Latest breaking AFLW news from the official website of the Australian Football League.

www.womens.afl

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

 

[CJMB]

Ash is a legend. Great guy.