List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

[rog1995]

Pretty crazy that we will have Jack SOS, Ben SOS, McKay, Kerr, TDK, Curnow & Casboult all on our list next year...you really don't need 7 KPF's on your list at the one time. Especially not in today's game. And we'll have about 9 KPD's...

By my count we'll have 19 players on our list either KPP's or ruckmen. Leaving only 25 for the rest of the list. Waaaaay too many.

This is my biggest concern. I would trade the number one pick this year (if he get it) for say two first rounders. We need to Target midfielders not KPP. If we end up with three picks in the top 22 this will benefit us longer term. Need to remember Murphy's on his last legs as is Simpson. The talk about adding Lynch and another KPF with our first rounder as well as BSOS is crazy.

 

[Weiterbot23]

That's an interesting opinion. I feel that running is his great strength. He runs a 16 + beep, and at afl level will run like tom Scully. I would have thought he'd compliment Cripps and dow very well indeed.

We need speed in the midfield, Cripps and Kennedy are slow, SPS isn't lightning and atm I'm just happy if Dow can make connection between his foot and the ball.

 

[Lawrence Angwin]

I still find it amazing that Rankine is no longer being talked about in the top 5 picks. This guy had to change sides in a game last year to help even up the game.

The kid currently has the best highlights package I've ever seen at U18 level & he's still got a year to go to add to it.


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[Lawrence Angwin]

Amazing that only 3 weeks in, we're already more interested in what happens in November.

Wait til we have a couple of wins & then we'll lose some interest.........We're a fickle bunch!


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[Blue_Fusion]

So we'll have Lukosius, Ben SOS, Jack SOS, McKay, Kerr, TDK, Curnow and Casboult all on our list at the same time...no thanks. Stupid amount of KPF's.

Yep. And there's another issue with them too. We'll very unlikely be trading any of them away.

TDK is looking good so far but hasn't got any value. Neither has Kerr.

No chance any of SOS's boys get traded.

No one wants Casboult.

McKay should still be seen as part of our future and Charlie is an untouchable.

Lukosius would be a prime target if we had even a half decent midfield. But because ours is so bereft of depth, experience and skill, just can't see us not loading up on them with our first picks this draft and trade period.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

SOS will continue to draft what he perceives as best available and trade/target free agents to fill holes.

It will never be just KPP's or all out on mids. If we did end up finishing last and he rated Lukosius as the best player in the draft, he will select him

So does SOS trade out a KPF, or instead trade our draft pick for say 2 draft picks?

IMO, something has to give with our lack of midfield depth / class.

If Lukosius and the Kings are the standouts, and SOS is going all out for midfielders, perhaps he can extract a good price for our first draft pick ...

Alternatively, SOS gives up our 2019 first for another 2018 first. I think this is likely.

 

[rog1995]

So does SOS trade out a KPF, or instead trade our draft pick for say 2 draft picks?

IMO, something has to give with our lack of midfield depth / class.

If Lukosius and the Kings are the standouts, and SOS is going all out for midfielders, perhaps he can extract a good price for our first draft pick ...

Alternatively, SOS gives up our 2019 first for another 2018 first. I think this is likely.

Does any team have two first rounders this year?

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Does any team have two first rounders this year?

Just looked over at Pick Watch thread and it is the Crows (one from Demons) and the Suns (one from West Coast).

 

[rog1995]

Interesting, if Gold Coast lose Lynch they could have three 1st rounders.

 

[Blue__Balls]

By season's end i'd expect Gold Coast to be sitting on picks 8 and 10.

I'm not sure i'd want to drop that far down the draft order if we're giving away pick 1 or 2. I'd prefer something link 5 and 16. But it may well depend on how opposition preferences shape up.

Need to bring in a ball magnet. We've got plenty of young mids who can do damage with limited disposal, but they need to be complemented by someone who can rack up 30+. An Ed upgrade (love Ed, but need to develop someone to take his spot in the next few years if we're serious).



Sam Walsh or Bailey Smith would be ideal. Follow that up with a damaging pressure forward like Rozee and we're doing well.

Rankine looks great, but do we run the risk of filling our midfield with blokes who just don't find enough of the ball?

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Pretty crazy that we will have Jack SOS, Ben SOS, McKay, Kerr, TDK, Curnow & Casboult all on our list next year...you really don't need 7 KPF's on your list at the one time. Especially not in today's game. And we'll have about 9 KPD's...

By my count we'll have 19 players on our list either KPP's or ruckmen. Leaving only 25 for the rest of the list. Waaaaay too many.

Yep, it’s one of the many reasons I advocated trading Liam Jones.

Didn’t think he was that great as a defender as he doesn’t know how to defend, teams are going through his man whilst he continues to think he’s Alex Rance.

We would have received decent compensation last trade period for him, his value is diminishing all of the time.

Then you lose ASOS, Rowe to retirement.

I would certainly take lukosius this year as long as we didn’t take another KPP, we’ve some how got to get another pick around 10...

And SOS needs to land a FA or two this year and next.

 

[Arr0w]

So we'll have Lukosius, Ben SOS, Jack SOS, McKay, Kerr, TDK, Curnow and Casboult all on our list at the same time...no thanks. Stupid amount of KPF's.

So does SOS trade out a KPF, or instead trade our draft pick for say 2 draft picks?

IMO, something has to give with our lack of midfield depth / class.

If Lukosius and the Kings are the standouts, and SOS is going all out for midfielders, perhaps he can extract a good price for our first draft pick ...

Alternatively, SOS gives up our 2019 first for another 2018 first. I think this is likely.

Easier to respond to both posts.

Firstly, despite what people think, I complete agree that we need more quality midfielders, but no one could categorically state that all other areas of our list has been ticked off. People suggest that we have enough KPF's, yet only Charlie has shown that he will make it at this level. The others, who I still have confidence in, McKay, Kerr, TDK are still young and raw, as Ben will be once we draft him. Yet our midfielders seem to be viewed in a different light, SPS, Polson, Cuningham, Fisher, Kennedy, Cripps, Fisher, Dow, Lang, Willo

Perhaps what people are really suggesting, is the list is unbalanced, I know HARKER is strong on this point and I don't disagree. But as boring as it sounds, "Talls take longer" to develop.

Maybe consider the following

Casboult may only have another year at best, which he could see out at NB level, if and when the kids come on
TDK, McKay, Kerr still very raw. With TDK being viewed as a Kreuzer
Ben hasn't even been drafted yet
Jack, should not be in the list of KPP's, he is a 3rd tall.

GapInIkonPark , SOS has shown that he will manipulate our current draft standings, with trading of players and or picks. I also believe this year, he will start dipping his toe into free agancy

 

[HARKER]

I agree with Arr0w obviously. Talls take longer but......

If a quality key tall presents ala De Koning, take them but only if they're a forward.
Generally speaking, it's easier for a quality forward to settle into a back post than it is for a tall back-man to become a forward.
Once Rowe, JGM, ASilvagni and possibly Casboult are gone, our spread of talls will be better and development should ramp up. Playing developing players out of position is a recipe for disaster. It may work every now and for some, but it could do more damage than good, for others

Of course we take mids but let's not get drawn into trying to make a flanker into a mid, again.
It didn't work in the Hughes era....It didn't work in the Rogers era....and it won't work in the SOS era. It's largely a false economy.

Draft and recruit only the right types, even if it is only as back-up and they mostly play in the VFL.

 

[HBF]

Wait til we have a couple of wins & then we'll lose some interest.........We're a fickle bunch!

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Just the same old same old every year. Would be nice to focused on footy for a greater part of the season.

 

[Toddski]

If lukosious is a riewoldt then I'd take him.

I'd trade either Murph or Weiters and grab another first rounder. Use it on the best tough midfielder then draft our next two as mids, quick defenders or pressure small forwards.

We need 4 picks inside 30 this year.

I would then go for Gaff or Wines as well.

Rock bottom this year but we have to capitalise on this super draft. Then top up as we go like the cats and hawks do.

 

[Jeremias]

It would be an absurd decision to trade Weitering.

Just about the worst thing we could do right now.

 

[Arr0w]

I agree with Arr0w obviously. Talls take longer but......

If a quality key tall presents ala De Koning, take them but only if they're a forward.
Generally speaking, it's easier for a quality forward to settle into a back post than it is for a tall back-man to become a forward.
Once Rowe, JGM, ASilvagni and possibly Casboult are gone, our spread of talls will be better and development should ramp up. Playing developing players out of position is a recipe for disaster. It may work every now and for some, but it could do more damage than good, for others

Of course we take mids but let's not get drawn into trying to make a flanker into a mid, again.
It didn't work in the Hughes era....It didn't work in the Rogers era....and it won't work in the SOS era. It's largely a false economy.

Draft and recruit only the right types, even if it is only as back-up and they mostly play in the VFL.

This

You should never draft a flanker from junior level UNLESS, they are viewed as being able to play in other areas.

Generally the best flankers in the current game, have either been ex midfielders at junior level or reinventing themselves later in their careers

 

[Blue Baggers]

It would be an absurd decision to trade Weitering.

Just about the worst thing we could do right now.

Completely agree, people forget alex rance the so called “best defender” at the same age as Weiters wasn’t even playing in the 1’s. In fact he played in the coburg reserves so wasnt even good enough for the vfl. He couldn’t hit a target and was the Tigers whipping boy, let’s get behind Weiters

 

[Aphrodite]

If lukosious is a riewoldt then I'd take him.

I'd trade either Murph or Weiters and grab another first rounder. Use it on the best tough midfielder then draft our next two as mids, quick defenders or pressure small forwards.

We need 4 picks inside 30 this year.

I would then go for Gaff or Wines as well.

Rock bottom this year but we have to capitalise on this super draft. Then top up as we go like the cats and hawks do.

There it is.

 

[Aphrodite]

Completely agree, people forget alex rance the so called “best defender” at the same age as Weiters wasn’t even playing in the 1’s. In fact he played in the coburg reserves so wasnt even good enough for the vfl. He couldn’t hit a target and was the Tigers whipping boy, let’s get behind Weiters

Has become the whipping boy for a certain few on here.

 

[CJMB]

So does SOS trade out a KPF, or instead trade our draft pick for say 2 draft picks?

IMO, something has to give with our lack of midfield depth / class.

If Lukosius and the Kings are the standouts, and SOS is going all out for midfielders, perhaps he can extract a good price for our first draft pick ...

Alternatively, SOS gives up our 2019 first for another 2018 first. I think this is likely.

Could see him potentially bundling our first and one of our later picks to try and get multiple 1sts. Also the possibility of our future 1st being involved.

As it stands we've got 1, 21, 34, 61, 73. Worst case scenario (if not then bloody close to it!) for us in terms of on field performance (and assuming no ladder change with ADE and WBD) could potentially have us with 1, 19, 22, 35, etc. That's a lot of draft currency to play with and we know SOS is happy to trade picks like what we did with the Dogs last year.

There's also the interesting component of our future picks; if we see ourselves as rising in 2019 but other clubs don't share the same view then there's potentially some value to be had, provided clubs are willing to forfeit a pick in this years much hyped draft (at least hyped in the early days).

If lukosious is a riewoldt then I'd take him.

I'd trade either Murph or Weiters and grab another first rounder. Use it on the best tough midfielder then draft our next two as mids, quick defenders or pressure small forwards.

We need 4 picks inside 30 this year.

It would be an absurd decision to trade Weitering.

Just about the worst thing we could do right now.

Murphy turns 32 next year, no one is going to shell out much for any player at that age. Plus the whole thing about him being captain, as voted in by his peers... find it pretty hard to see him getting offloaded.

I'm pretty confident Weitering will come good. It's only a month ago everyone was talking him up after his massive game in JLT2. He's a 20 year old KPP. Give him time. Then there's the whole thing with his value now probably being lower than it ever has been. I can't see any club's offering a pick that would even justify losing him.

I would then go for Gaff or Wines as well.

Rock bottom this year but we have to capitalise on this super draft. Then top up as we go like the cats and hawks do.

Gaff and Wines are opposite ends of the spectrum. It'd be great to have Ollie but he's not a free agent and considering his recent comments about wanting to become captain of Port (and their current ladder position) it's hard to see him leaving unless it's a godfather offer... Port would expect one hell of a deal to let go of him as well. I reckon they'd be looking at the Gibbs trade and thinking they'd want better.

I reckon we go for FAs, take our picks to the draft (perhaps with some trading to alter our number of picks and draft position). If we're trading it's for guys like Kennedy and Lang who are looking out for more game time or to play in their preferred position and won't cost an arm or leg but very well could be best 22.

Even if we miss every FA (Gaff, Dahlhaus, etc) I'd rather us keep the majority of our picks to take to the draft, preferably with a focus on out-and-out midfielders (exceptions made for anyone who's potentially a once in a generation tall, of course). Then next year, rinse and repeat. Go for Shiel, add more kids, cut some deadwood, onwards and upwards....

 

[Aphrodite]

Forget Wines:-



https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/04/10/port-captaincy-my-aspiration-says-wines/

Speaking on his current contract situation, Wines says it is still a matter when and not if he signs on with the Power beyond 2018, revealing that a two to three-year deal is on the brink of being finalised.

“At the moment I just need a couple of more weeks just to dot the I’s and cross the t’s and make sure I am 100 per cent comfortable. It’s going to be a two or three year thing that I am in Adelaide a bit longer"

 

[Jimmae]

That's an interesting opinion. I feel that running is his great strength. He runs a 16 + beep, and at afl level will run like tom Scully. I would have thought he'd compliment Cripps and dow very well indeed.

Running all day is great, and forms the basis of two-way run, but I'm worried about his burst in combination with that.

I'm looking for someone like Stephen Hill, or Judd, etc. That's obvious the top of the tree in terms of athletic potential, but Walsh isn't even in the running when you want the combination.

Dow has some of that about him, but he has some very obvious flaws right now too. I wanted LDU at 3, Bonar at 10 and the Hopper trade to succeed to bring some of that into the team (obviously not all three, but one or two), but we'll have to wait and see how those three turn out while they approach an AFL level of fitness.

 

[HARKER]

Draft revisionism: The problem with talls

I'll drop this here and something we've discussed already but again, it does highlight: a. Talls take longer 2. Talls are risky

Which top 3 talls over the past 8 years, would one take with the same picks again?
Boyd, Patton, McCartin, Day, Weitering, Schache? Moral: Have to be careful with talls, no matter how good they look in their junior years.

 

[HBF]

It's a good article. Only freaks like Riewoldt make an impression early in their career. Most take several years to be really ready for AFL footy.