Autopsy Cats lose to Port by 6 points after being down by 10 goals

[feelinfeline]

The mature ruck strategy never works because they only ever do it with late late picks.
If you want a really good ruck you need to invest capital in it.
As far as this year we knee stanley was almost cooked, we knew conway couldnt play every week, we knew blitz was 33.
Furphy hadnt played footy in years, edwards was a beanpole.
Neale is supposed to be filling FF.

None of that screams adequate coverage. They needed to get rid of one of the above and get in someone ready to play now.
And they should have done it last offseason.

'Get rid of one of the above' - good in theory. Name one.

Get rid of Stanley? Big call if you have to bring in someone else to automatically play first ruck.

Are you saying they shouldn't have recruited Furphy or Edwards? Furphy was a purely speculative pick that cost nothing.

They tried for Goldstein a few years ago and that failed. They weren't going to try for him again.

They might have tried for Grundy but, regardless, he wanted to go to Sydney.

Soldo or Naismith? I think I'd prefer Edwards and Furphy for the (possible) long term.

 

[AlcoaCat]

And what if Rozee, and Soldo played tonight?

Bloodbath. That rozee is a rare talent. Have to say that I admired Butters last night - cheeky little bugger, really got in our heads.

 

[CHAWKTS]

The boys got the start time wrong, and didn't turn up until the 3rd quarter.

Wish I had done the same

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I would think Dempsey gets his week off too - I am suprised they haven’t done it yet as he is getting into rare territory in terms of number of games in a row ever..including junior…

But it may depend on how many are out before him and how much change do they really want to do game to game without it looking like a panic? Above you mention 3 ins (Bowes, tanner and 2e) plus they will bring in Neale (despite the hot mess) - otherwise it shatters his confidence? - and probably Toby for Stanley. So that is 5 potential ins from the “core squad”. (Outs hawk, Stanley, Duncan, dempsey and maybe another sore player).

I would like a mannagh or Hardie also in but that would mean 6 changes - most of them managed - very rare for what is now a must win game

I would think dempsey was planned to rest but does dropping 2 games change the plan.
Also if hawkins and possibly cameron are out we might have to play him as i agree 5 or 6 changes already is enough.

Bruhn and bowes have to come back or rowell will kill us.
I think tuohy is a swap for duncan (id pick neither personally) and surely mannagh and hardie play in darwin.
Clark and dempsey possibles to sit out.
Id also get ruthless on rhys now.
They will probably insist on taking parfitt to darwin though i wouldnt. I also wouldnt pick cuthrie but they will.

For me stanley hawkins duncan clark parfitt and dempsey should come out.
And bruhn bowes mannagh hardie conway and maybe tuohy in.
But we shall see.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

.

Cameron - very good chance he’s got concussion. Club will be fined - he refused to come off when the doctor grabbed him to go to the bench for assessment. Vision is damning

The Cameron one is interesting. When he landed he looked like he was completely knocked out (not too dissimilar from last year when he was knocked out)
Then he bounced up like nothing happened. The vision was pretty bad though and he needed to go to the bench for a proper assessment.
Very poor look.

 

[CHAWKTS]

Bloodbath. That rozee is a rare talent. Have to say that I admired Butters last night - cheeky little bugger, really got in our heads.

Yes, the “younger me” would have got suspended playing against him last night….but I would have admired him whilst giving him a clip

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Stanley was poor, but the mids were beaten up badly. Reactive, fumbly and on their heels. Port's were the complete opposite early, they were sharp, always in motion and attacked with speed.

Stewart was basically tagged out by that scrub McEntee, who had no intention of ever trying to win the ball and just scragged Stewart out of the contest at every opportunity. Has been a tactic they've used in the past, Port.

I think the criticism of Stanley is way over the top , he was very poor last night , maybe he went in injured , the week before against Gawn ( who is a champion ruckman and the best ruckman/ruck rover / midfielder all in one thats how good he is ) in the comp , and i thought Rhys was ok against Max . And some of the unpleasant stuff said tonight/today about Rhys a premiership player is kindergarten stuff

And he is not the only ruckman to be subbed off so early

To put a Geelong slant on it , Billy Goggin when he was coaching Footscray ,and Ian Bluey Hampshire was playing in the ruck for the Dogs in a game , they in the 1st qtr like the Cats last night , got smashed it was about 7 goals to nothing , and it was the 19th/20th man back then , so once you came off you were finished for the game .And at Qtr time Billy said to Bluey your off , 19th man came on , and i think Blueys respone to Goggin was he said you and the next 3 words started with L F and B - hah

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Graham Cornes coming out midweek saying Port were mentally fragile certainly fired them up. They looked like the best team in the comp for that first half.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Bloodbath. That rozee is a rare talent. Have to say that I admired Butters last night - cheeky little bugger, really got in our heads.

Butters is a great player but man he has a punchable face. Little arrogant s**t he is.

 

[Commando]

All the off season angst about extending Hawkins' contract- pretty sure they were hoping he would retire, as many of us did, but Demons started sniffing around, forcing us to give him this contract. I doubt that Hawkins will pull the pin now during this season, even if he is cooked, which is how it appears. He is facing the biggest hurdle of his career, one which does not have a solution- AGE. Happens to all and the best. Equalling Selwood's tally would be a nice gesture- retire now- but that will not happen. We can only hope that we are expert at managing him , and that he can get out of this rut often enough to be of value.

If we weren't contending you'd think he'd call it a day

Not sure what the solution is, hopefully he improves after a freshen up or perhaps he puts in a big training block for a tilt at the last 10 weeks
Problem is if he loses his spot in that time it's all for nothing

It's a conundrum

 

[Cataholic]

Wish I had done the same

I was spared the visual pain of the first quarter due to travelling, but listening to it on the radio wasn't pleasant either.

Very few of our names were called, as if the boys weren't even there, and the callers were both stunned by Port's start, and our complacency.

Watching the second quarter confirmed what they were saying.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

'Get rid of one of the above' - good in theory. Name one.

Get rid of Stanley? Big call if you have to bring in someone else to automatically play first ruck.

Are you saying they shouldn't have recruited Furphy or Edwards? Furphy was a purely speculative pick that cost nothing.

They tried for Goldstein a few years ago and that failed. They weren't going to try for him again.

They might have tried for Grundy but, regardless, he wanted to go to Sydney.

Soldo or Naismith? I think I'd prefer Edwards and Furphy for the (possible) long term.

Furphy is ok purely because hes a cat b not taking up a spot.
But he doesnt feature in 2024 plans.

Edwards i need 12 months to see him before i can give you an answer.

Yes stanley should have been punted and we should have brought in a ruck off another club. I dont think grundy was gettable (but i would have tried harder) but i can think of a number of other rucks that were that we should have gone for. Soldo is a classic example of this but not the only one.

 

[catempire]

Not making it any better

It’s really only academically interesting in this case. Bad kicking was certainly not why we lost it. A disgusting first half performance with some absolutely unacceptable performances from senior players and an uncompetitive midfield were squarely to blame.

 

[Hello Kitty]

His name is Mark

Wasn't he delisted?

 

[feelinfeline]

Furphy is ok purely because hes a cat b not taking up a spot.
But he doesnt feature in 2024 plans.

Edwards i need 12 months to see him before i can give you an answer.

Yes stanley should have been punted and we should have brought in a ruck off another club. I dont think grundy was gettable (but i would have tried harder) but i can think of a number of other rucks that were that we should have gone for. Soldo is a classic example of this but not the only one.

OK, your opinion and fair enough. It would have been a risk replacing Stanley with Soldo but could have been done.

But that's not the way our club does things. These days they mostly treat their players with respect, for better or worse, and only on rare occasions force players out of the club.

 

[Cataholic]

It’s really only academically interesting in this case. Bad kicking was certainly not why we lost it. A disgusting first half performance with some absolutely unacceptable performances from senior players and an uncompetitive midfield were squarely to blame.

It's hard to ignore the idea that they believed they'd win simply by showing up.

 

[feelinfeline]

I think the criticism of Stanley is way over the top , he was very poor last night , maybe he went in injured , the week before against Gawn ( who is a champion ruckman and the best ruckman/ruck rover / midfielder all in one thats how good he is ) in the comp , and i thought Rhys was ok against Max . And some of the unpleasant stuff said tonight/today about Rhys a premiership player is kindergarten stuff

And he is not the only ruckman to be subbed off so early

To put a Geelong slant on it , Billy Goggin when he was coaching Footscray ,and Ian Bluey Hampshire was playing in the ruck for the Dogs in a game , they in the 1st qtr like the Cats last night , got smashed it was about 7 goals to nothing , and it was the 19th/20th man back then , so once you came off you were finished for the game .And at Qtr time Billy said to Bluey your off , 19th man came on , and i think Blueys respone to Goggin was he said you and the next 3 words started with L F and B - hah

He was OK against Gawn but has been terrible in two of his last three games and questions have to be asked.

Is it an injury, his eyesight or just confidence?

By all means speak about him with respect but questions have to be asked about his place in the team, and I'm sure the inner sanctum of the club will be doing that.

 

[gogeelongcats]

It's hard to ignore the idea that they believed they'd win simply by showing up.

As a supporter, thats what I believed.
I settled in for the night expecting a solid win.

Be honest how many other supporters felt the same way?

 

[Wish Wellingtons]

That is a flat out wrong call on Atkins and Parfitt. Atkins is an exceptional hard nosed no nonsense midfielder, he was loved and lauded and a key player in our premiership year.

It’s about team balance and a player can live and die by the players around them. Look how much better Wines looked last night without Rozee.

People tend to write off players for not doing what they think they should be doing, rather than accepting what they are. Which is how people seem to analyze (unfairly) Rhys Stanley, who also was a key in our premiership year, just think his eyes have stuffed him and it is affecting his playing.

Short memories on this forum.

Do you honestly think Atkins would get a game for Carlton, GWS, Brisbane, Sydney, Collingwood?

He is a great tackler, but on the flip side is constantly caught holding the ball. He is a decent ball winner but a very average ball user. He is also too small.

He averages 15 touches a game. This is fine when he is the fourth or fifth midfielder with a defensive role, but last night he was asked to be the main man and was completely exposed. Mullin looked better. Anyway, I never wanted to be the driver of the Atkins is not that great bandwagon but here we are I guess.

 

[SoYouThink90]

I noticed that it was Cameron’s choice last night. Dempsey came on in third qtr and ran to his wing where Cameron was. Signaled to Cameron to go to forward line (assume was a coach instruction) and was waved off by Cameron and Dempsey went forward. Cameron stayed wing entire second half I think

I don’t mind it but as you say it robs our forward line a bit and I don’t think Cameron does the defensive zoning stuff a younger wing would do

Because we have Hawkins, Rohan and O Henry as forward marking targets they would prefer Cameron in a more mobile role.

 

[maxy87]

Disappointing to fall just short after such a comeback but not unexpected given the first half.

I think the concerns about our midfield profile that many held over the summer are starting to surface now. Ruck issues aside, we were absolutely obliterated in the first half and the lack of pressure and clearances directly fed Port’s outside spread. They looked a million bucks and had players swarming everywhere but that’s the result of being so soundly beaten in the middle. I suspect this is why some of the senior players like Duncan looked so slow as well. There will be weeks where Bruhn, Holmes et al step up and play well but given their age and experience there will also be down weeks and it’s becoming increasingly unsustainable to rely on Danger and Guthrie as the experienced mids. I feel there is a pretty firm ceiling on Parfitt and Atkins - they can work well supporting a midfield system with the likes of Danger leading the way but cannot be relied upon to drive the bus. The midfield issue will dog us for the rest of the year and probably until the younger players grow up and/or we trade in a Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

type. That said, the rest of the field is strong and the coaching staff have been able to put together a plan/style that masks the midfield deficiencies - but do not be surprised if it comes back to bite should we make finals.

Looking at other aspects of the game, I agree with other posters that said we were no clean and seemed to run past a lot of balls. A lot of things just don’t quite go our way but that could be put down to the immense pressure the team put themselves under. Despite all the issues, we still managed some pretty brutal transitions from half back resulting in scores/goals in a manner of seconds.

Z Guthrie again very good down back. And I thought Mullin did well to limit JHF in the second half. His speed will be an asset moving forward.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

He was OK against Gawn but has been terrible in two of his last three games and questions have to be asked.

Is it an injury, his eyesight or just confidence?

By all means speak about him with respect but questions have to be asked about his place in the team, and I'm sure the inner sanctum of the club will be doing that.

I dont like some of the adjectives used , like he is garbage , some one in the preview said he was Dog S and bear in mind most if not all of the posters on this forum have played 1st Grade nothing

He is a Premiership player and played alot of good games for the Cats , and last week he was more than serviceable against Max Gawn

The bottom line with Geel , is while Dangerfield is still playing the Cats can be dangerous and do something . Once he is retired ( and there will be other older players go too ) then thats when the curtain gets drawn , and unless they get fluckingly lucky drafting/selecting players then they will be like Richmond today

But ive got no angst with that , because they have stayed up for nearly 20 years which is a sensational effort - plus the 4 Flags

 

[BORIS332]

We should have gone after another mature ruckman like Grundy, Soldo, Goldstein, or a bunch of others (who were floating around in the off season) for a season or 2 at least, until guys like Conway and Edwards can step up as regulars.

Most would have been dirt cheap too, and anyone would be a improvement on the rubbish Stanley is dishing up.

As good as our list management team has been for so long, they are seemingly inept when it comes to addressing the needs of our ruck department.

Feels like it could be the year where a decent ruckman could be the difference between us winning a flag or not. Cannot believe we persisted with Stanley this year to lead our ruck division. Coming back to bite already.

We did go after Goldy, and we probably went after Grundy and Soldo too. You can go after whoever you want, doesn’t mean you’ll get them.

 

[Hello Kitty]

I want Neale in the team playing fwd /ruck. Give Hawk another rest. He can play his record breaking game back in front of the home ground fans.

Do we have any other ruck type on the list?

It's a difficult position, well, it's been awful for years.

I'm not keen on Blitz playing full time ruck. I do support Conway, despite his lack of tank, playing with Blitz rucking when Conway needs a breather. Does that mean Conway rests on the bench, or can he play forward to rest? Then there's Neale, who is a forward + according to some here, can ruck. So Neale playing, with Blitz rucking when Neale rests forward. Considering Conway + Neale, with Blitz doing some ruck work, could they be rotated? Getting games into them + resting when needed?

I have no idea, just a thought.

 

[BORIS332]

Might be an interesting interesting few weeks coming up.

Hawkins rested - can Neale perform?

Duncan surely rested for Suns. I think he’s cooked anyway. Becoming a liability - it’s a young man’s game (his role) and he’s getting burnt for leg speed.

Cameron - very good chance he’s got concussion. Club will be fined - he refused to come off when the doctor grabbed him to go to the bench for assessment. Vision is damning

Holmes looked very sore at the end of the game

How will the playing group perform after attending Stanley’s memorial service during the week and scattering his ashes?

Bruhn was passed fit to play but they managed him - Bowes managed - and we were coming up against a very good midfield. Match committee can take some heat for last night - it was either arrogant or misguided. Either way, it was absurd considering both are younger players and we were already missing Dangerfield, and Guthrie is starting a long way back.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

This “arrogant match committee” stuff is getting really tired. The club has made it clear they are managing player workloads this season. Winning 7-0 gave us that luxury. Of course the risk is we drop a few games along the way, which is what has happened in the past couple weeks. But the bigger picture is we are 7-2 and priming our players to be cherry ripe when it counts.

You call it arrogance, I call it good player management.