Autopsy Cats lose to Port by 6 points after being down by 10 goals

[Hinkley29]

Do I look like I care?

Mids with immense talent, even at a young age can find the footy.
Ours are not at that level, and may never be, and we are not about to drop a veteran getting the pill more than them.

Anyone who genuinely thinks Mitch Duncan will be dropped then I have a bridge to sell them.

You’ve definitely got your panties in a bunch over Parfitt.

So yeah, you look like you care a lot

In basketball there are players who have good stats playing for bad teams because someone has to shoot the ball. It is the same in footy - even in crap teams someone has to get the possessions. Running around in games that are about as intense as nab preseason game tells you nothing about a player.

It is doing nothing for their development and teaching them nothing. So excuse me if I don’t blow my wad over a player getting 30 meaningless possession and not lay a tackle.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

You’ve definitely got your panties in a bunch over Parfitt.

So yeah, you look like you care a lot

In basketball there are players who have good stats playing for bad teams because someone has to shoot the ball. It is the same in footy - even in crap teams someone has to get the possessions. Running around in games that are about as intense as nab preseason game tells you nothing about a player.

It is doing nothing for their development and teaching them nothing. So excuse me if I don’t blow my wad over a player getting 30 meaningless possession and not lay a tackle.

I am talking about Duncan. And that apparently he should be out next Thursday.
Parfitt is just 1 of the 4-5 mids we have that Duncan on fumes can seemingly outperform.

Do you really believe Chris Scott is about to drop Duncan? I certainly don't even think it'd have crossed his mind let alone discussed at MC.

 

[CHAWKTS]

Is Conway fit enough to run out a game in Darwin conditions? I doubt it. Witts will smash whoever we throw out there it may as well be guys who are second position rucks

I hear you…and mostly aligned…but this time I am in the camp of Toby or bust for this week. Actually not that dramatic…but if Toby is right to play let’s get him to Darwin and let him get at it.

It is a tough gig but Stanley confidence low so let’s give the kid a go. Blitz and Neale can do a chop out and if needed we can sub Conway 3/4 time.

 

[Vivy]

Gee doesn't Jack Henry

38

Jack Henry

Age

25

Ht

192cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

142.6

2star

D

8.6

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.1

3star

MG

142.6

3star

D

9.6

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

4star

look like he's running in mud at the moment. Far cry from the player who was the catalyst for Jordan Clark

6

Jordan Clark

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

4.3

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

MG

172.0

3star

D

12.5

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

172.0

3star

D

12.2

3star

K

10.4

4star

HB

1.8

2star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.4

4star

's winning goal against the Hawks on Easter Monday in 2021

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Mitch Duncan is one of 4. That's right. 4. Cats that are averaging above 20 touches per game.
He is absolutely zero % chance of being dropped.

He is on fumes and accumulating the pill more times than the so called great young mids we have coming through in Bruhn, Clark and Parfitt (who gets lauded for some bizarre reason). And before we have the lot ToG% BS come out again McKercher is in year 1 and is over 80% of minutes and got his first 30 touch game today.

This idea that Duncan is close to getting dropped, or he should be is nonsense. He may be waning and he may be in his last year for all we know but some here need to get real. Our mids are woeful, we aren't going to retire someone who is accumulating the pill, albeit off halfback/wing.

You keep bringing this up and somehow miss the point every time.

The low TOG explains the disposal count. I can't believe how this keeps going over your head.

Bruhn, Dangerfield, Guthrie, & Bowes would all be getting 25-30 week on week with the adjusted TOG.

Parfitt, Atkins, & Clark I'll give you, as they're either not up to it right now, or have never shown the ability to accumulate even with a higher TOG.

The rest though? It's simple maths and adjustment.

Duncan for instance was on the ground 79% of the time, but you probably haven't bothered to check that because you don't even understand what you're arguing about.

Scott has said himself that he approaches our midfield battles as a weight of numbers, rather than flogging two players into the ground all day like the Dangerwood days.

 

[Hinkley29]

I am talking about Duncan. And that apparently he should be out next Thursday.
Parfitt is just 1 of the 4-5 mids we have that Duncan on fumes can seemingly outperform.

Do you really believe Chris Scott is about to drop Duncan? I certainly don't even think it'd have crossed his mind let alone discussed at MC.

Absolutely not. There is no way Duncan is getting dropped and there is no way that he should. He is still in our best 10-15 players and I don’t understand the grief he is copping on this board.

But, in making your point about Duncan you couldn’t help yourself in taking another shot at Parfitt. We all know your views on Parfitt, they are borderline obsessive. There is no need to repeat them ad nauseum, doing so just blows your credibility.

You need to change the channel, the show is getting really boring.

 

[Play it Sam]

Our fight back this week kept our heads above water, the way the dice rolled.

Amusing AFL ladder, with Essendone sitting third with the sixth worse percentage in the comp, yet with three very winnable games to come, they might hang around.
How would it be, if the ultimate occured, a GF grand final first, Twinny Touchup, Brother Battle?

 

[Hinkley29]

You keep bringing this up and somehow miss the point every time.

The low TOG explains the disposal count. I can't believe how this keeps going over your head.

Bruhn, Dangerfield, Guthrie, & Bowes would all be getting 25-30 week on week with the adjusted TOG.

Parfitt, Atkins, & Clark I'll give you, as they're either not up to it right now, or have never shown the ability to accumulate even with a higher TOG.

The rest though? It's simple maths and adjustment.

Duncan for instance was on the ground 79% of the time, but you probably haven't bothered to check that because you don't even understand what you're arguing about.

Scott has said himself that he approaches our midfield battles as a weight of numbers, rather than flogging two players into the ground all day like the Dangerwood days.

I can’t believe they aren’t getting possession when they are on the bench.

Clearly not trying hard enough

 

[Hinkley29]

Gee doesn't Jack Henry look like he's running in mud at the moment. Far cry from the player who was the catalyst for Jordan Clark's winning goal against the Hawks on Easter Monday in 2021

Yeah, nah

 

[Vivy]

Yeah, nah

Na.

 

[Hinkley29]

Na.

Too right

 

[Play it Sam]

You keep bringing this up and somehow miss the point every time.

The low TOG explains the disposal count. I can't believe how this keeps going over your head.

Bruhn, Dangerfield, Guthrie, & Bowes would all be getting 25-30 week on week with the adjusted TOG.

Parfitt, Atkins, & Clark I'll give you, as they're either not up to it right now, or have never shown the ability to accumulate even with a higher TOG.

The rest though? It's simple maths and adjustment.

Duncan for instance was on the ground 79% of the time, but you probably haven't bothered to check that because you don't even understand what you're arguing about.

Scott has said himself that he approaches our midfield battles as a weight of numbers, rather than flogging two players into the ground all day like the Dangerwood days.

Scott is also NOT a numbers man either, he admits to that, although some MSC might be.
What he is though is a target man, with a specific role for players, both against whatever oppo turns up, and within the game plan. Nine times out of ten his side will be beaten after failing, through whatever players, and there will be several, to follow the game plan. I can tell you that Parfitt is single minded in adhering to his job wherever possible.

Twice in the past 3 pressers he has said that sometimes a player just gets beaten on the day, it's that simple. Yet we want a team of champions.
The trouble with some here is expectations, and an unwillingness to understand that the data doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[Vivy]

Too right

You're living in the land of the fairies if you think his efforts in recent weeks look anything like what he's been in the past.

Fritsch & co showing him a clean pair of heels in consecutive weeks, compared to 2021/2 Henry are night and day.

You haven't actually bothered to counter it, because you didn't have an argument other than 'Yeah, nah'

 

[Kobe Gryant]

I can’t believe they aren’t getting possession when they are on the bench.

Clearly not trying hard enough

It's just a moronic argument with such a simple explanation.

It feels like one of those arguments that's purely due to a breakdown in communication, as it doesn't make sense why we're doing it. The answer is right there.

If people want to criticize our mids with their positioning at stoppages, or the way they approached that first half, then that's fine.

If they're disappointed that the players in there now can't seem to grab the moment and burst out with a clearence when the game is on a knives edge like Danger & Selwood at their peak, then that's also fine.

To criticize their ability to accumulate, when they're literally not on the field is not fine, even if you've got a personal vendetta against the player.

And then to be so ill informed that your counter argument is "Look wHAt DUNcan Is doING, WhY CaN'T thEy aLL do thAT?" when Duncan is on the ground for 20% more of the game is hilarious.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Duncan for instance was on the ground 79% of the time, but you probably haven't bothered to check that because you don't even understand what you're arguing about.

Understand I do.
I just don't agree with or buy the reasoning being given on here for it. Think it's a load of pish tbh.

Scott has said himself that he approaches our midfield battles as a weight of numbers, rather than flogging two players into the ground all day like the Dangerwood days.

Let's look at when it worked. 2022.

Guthrie - 25 from 70%
Duncan - 23 from 84% (HBF)
Dangerfield - 22 from 75%
Selwood - 21 from 72%
Tuohy - 21 from 87% (HBF/Wing)
Smith - 21 from 84% (wing)
Parfitt - 20 from 64%
Atkins - 18 from 76%
Blicavs - 17 from 85% (also back up ruck).

Left out Stewart as he's a defender, and is a constant.

Holmes - 24 from 83% (HBF)
Miers - 22 from 85% (HFF)
Duncan - 21 from 80%
Dangerfield - 21 from 69% (subbed off twice).
Bruhn - 19 from 60% (affected by being subbed off once).
Blicavs - 14 from 80% (back up ruck)
Parfitt - 19 from 66%
Bowes - 18 from 63%
Atkins - 15 from 62%
Tuohy - 16 from 80%

Not only does that on the surface look remarkably worse than what worked in 2022 so do other midfield metrics.
But on the above all bar Parfitt were 70% or above among mids. In 2024 none of them are above 70% although Danger would be without being subbed twice.

Clearance differential 6th (+1.4) in 2022 v 17th (-4.9) in 2024. Centre gone from 2nd to 11th and stoppage gone from 9th to 18th
Contested possession diff 4th (+7.4) v 16th (-5.5) in 2024
inside 50 diff 1st (+12.8) in 2022 v 9th (+0.1) in 2024

Bruhn, Dangerfield, Guthrie, & Bowes would all be getting 25-30 week on week with the adjusted TOG.

Parfitt, Atkins, & Clark I'll give you, as they're either not up to it right now, or have never shown the ability to accumulate even with a higher TOG.

There is no excuse for the bolded not being able to play 75-85% of minutes and achieving what seemingly 2-3 at every other club can. We aren't some visionaries bucking the trend because they're all wrong and we've stumbled across the formula to success. We spread the load going for bursts of play for a larger group because we by and large have a group that is below standard.

And we saw on Friday night what elite midfield players look like. JHF, Butters and Wines did it with ease, and made our guys look absolutely stupid.

Absolutely not. There is no way Duncan is getting dropped and there is no way that he should. He is still in our best 10-15 players and I don’t understand the grief he is copping on this board.

Then what are we arguing about. That is what I was saying.

But, in making your point about Duncan you couldn’t help yourself in taking another shot at Parfitt. We all know your views on Parfitt, they are borderline obsessive. There is no need to repeat them ad nauseum, doing so just blows your credibility.

You need to change the channel, the show is getting really boring.

I mentioned 3 midfielders and he was one of them, and was a part of a more broader point that Duncan on his last legs still gets the ball more than our midfielders, who are all much younger. Brandon included. And in doing so I referenced that he is lauded here, despite having regressed from 2022 yet Duncan who is outperforming him has had calls for being dropped. It makes no sense at all.

If you want I could also mention that Bowes, Bruhn and Clark have also been praised for doing less than what every other clubs midfielders do.

 

[witsend]

I’m gonna say this as an optimistic Cats supporter, based on us winning close to 25% of the Premierships since 2007.
GFC is playing the long game in general while keeping a very close eye on year to year flag hopes. Last year was beyond us clearly. This year there are very solid green shoots in our mf. We MUST get games into Bruhn, Bowes, Conway and Clark. And we are. But not at the expense of long term damage to immature bodies.
I think this year will be a very delicate balance of balance those long and short term goals. It feels like our window is very slightly ajar this year when we and the club maybe thought we were a year or so away. So the plan is to run an aggressive player management programme for young and old players but our hot start has thrown a nice spanner in the works.
Being brutally realistic, we could lose the next 2 games (I don’t think that will happen) and still be 7-4. Nowhere near insurmountable. And we must accept that our mf rotations are a work in progress.
Now is not the time to panic. It’s a time to enjoy the curiosity of where this group can take us this year.
Clearly there are teams structurally ahead of us. Carlton/Sydney/GWS.
But we were 3 goals away from being 9-0 and top of the ladder. Hell, we’re still 2nd!!!
Personally I think only a person even more optimistic than me would expect a Cats flag in 2024 when we didn’t even make finals last year. So let’s enjoy the ride.
We are building. We can see the replacements coming through and there’s a lot to like, even without drafting a Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

or the like.
Go Cats



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[And_ROOS]

Would the MC consider O'Sullivan into defence and running JHenry and OHenry as forwards?
Something like:
OHenry, Neale, Stengle
Miers, JHenry, Close

 

[Live in hope]

Only benefit in watching replay is that you feel better about domestic duties. My responses to your questions…

Stanley was subbed out early in the second qtr so I suppose that gives you the view of the coaches in terms of change needed. To be fair to Stanley though we didn’t have an A grade midfield - far from it. It seems to me like our best combo at the bounce is Danger, Bruhn and Bowes and we have none of them

Regarding Hawk it is getting hard to ignore. He did do some nice things though (held a couple of chest marks under pressure and gave some smart assists). But was beaten by Sav. I am not sure at this stage we have any other strategy than to rest him next week and bring him back in to give him a shot to get his form back. Don’t think we can win the flag if he isn’t contributing more

Stewart was “tagged” last night so not as effective as normal - but in my view we saw him back better than last week so I am hopeful he will be over his concussion effect pretty soon. He had some spark and attack on the ball last night.

You didn’t ask, but in the same vane as Stewart I am hopeful that Guthrie is just a build back from a long absence. I do wonder whether they should have done a Rohan (and Luke Parker from Swans) and given him 3-4 in the VFL. But now he is in I am hopeful we are seeing a slow build back to the old Guthrie.

Fulsome response - thanks CHARKTS.

Comforting comments on both Stewart and Cuthrie. With the later, with a year out, definitely need to give him time to build. Lack of A grade mids meant MC didn’t have luxury of giving him VFL games.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Sydney is like NY, London or any other truly international city - if you have the money to enjoy what it has to offer it is a great place to live, but if you are a battler stuck out in the outer burbs trying to make ends meet it is pretty bleak.

I grew up in Sydney's eastern suburbs, elite schools, universities, close to the beaches, nightclubs, great restaurants, funky cafés, fantastic shopping, a cosmopolitan area, many beautiful parks, plenty of places to play tennis, swimming training, parks for cycling, gyms + attended all sporting games. Then bought a house in beautiful, leafy quiet, heritage part of Paddington. No cars in the street, my house was in a pedestrian enclave with lovely gardens. Then developers moved in, disregarded DCP + LEP, Council did nothing. The final straw was when bookies moved into the street + there were a gun fights outside my home, not one, five! They would bring home bags of money, eventually escorted by security, after the shootings began. Then began the coverup. Bags of money emptied before the police arrived.
There were also many itinerant people, who lived in a small park. Margaret with her shopping trolley, who insisted my silver tea service + fine fine bone china tea cups + saucers. Margaret was a Swans fan, so took her to some games. Frank slept on the stone retaining wall. Refused food + coffee. But he eat it when left. Frank knew all the neighbours' + prevented many burglaries. When the new cashed up meritocracy + developers movein, all trees dividing our homes were removed. Margaret + Franck were removed. Our area lost its beautiful soul, I left.

 

[juzcat]

We thought Mannagh would come in to offer a bit of dash and evasiveness a bit further up the ground didn't we?

It makes sense to me... He has those attributes.

But for some reason unknown to me, we are playing him as an inside 50, forward pocket in the VFL.

I don't get it.

I'd be happy to see both Managh + Mullin pushing midfield minutes in the VFL and then AFL if shown good enough.

it is quite mental we are not playing any kid or mature age in the VFL who has a whiff of being a midfielder in that position. We need to mine our own goldfield

Sent from my SM-S928B using Tapatalk

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Stanley should never play another game for the club.

Don't mean to be harsh, but he's beyond cooked. He's a liability. He doesn't win hit outs, he loses his man at contests, he's not fit enough to run out games, he does nothing around the ground. He's just nothing. He's old and he won't be there next year. Put him out to pasture now. Play Conway. If he can't play every week or play out games, then use Blicavs in the ruck. Don't defend it by saying we need Blicavs elsewhere; he's already covering for Stanley now. Give Neale games as a ruck/forward swing man if we're not going to drop Hawkins to at least give him AFL exposure.

Playing the old blokes at the expense of young guys is fine when you're winning. When you start getting blown away at your home ground by a side that just looks far quicker than you everywhere, while some of those old blokes stagger around, it's perhaps a sign it's time to appraise those decisions. I can understand sticking with Hawkins, both out of respect for his stature within the club and to give him a chance to turn his form around, but Stanley? No, doesn't deserve it and has never had much form to return to.

 

[Finknottle]

Butters 34 disposals
Wines 33
Drew 27
Horne-Francis 26
-VS-
Holmes 21
Atkins 16
Parfitt 13
Clark 11

Port Adelaide 120
-VS-
Geelong 61

So by sheer weight of possessions Geelong's midfield were smashed.
Geelong's mids laid more tackles but it's pretty obvious Port's mids were getting first to the ball and our mids were chasing.

Geelong midfield doesn't necessarily have to match the opponent's midfield in disposals but it needs to do a hell of a lot better than it did against Port.

 

[Finknottle]

Would the MC consider O'Sullivan into defence and running JHenry and OHenry as forwards?
Something like:
OHenry, Neale, Stengle
Miers, JHenry, Close

Jack Henry as a forward is not the answer. Rohan is a much better option. He's quick and a great set shot. JH is a good honest medium defender but is one paced and has lost a yard or two over the years. If we don't care about winning the game, sure, give him a run in the forward line.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Our fight back this week kept our heads above water, the way the dice rolled.

Amusing AFL ladder, with Essendone sitting third with the sixth worse percentage in the comp, yet with three very winnable games to come, they might hang around.
How would it be, if the ultimate occured, a GF grand final first, Twinny Touchup, Brother Battle?

Have brothers (brothers at all, let alone twins!) ever opposed each other as coaches in an AFL Grand Final?

 

[Warhorse]

If you want I could also mention that Bowes, Bruhn and Clark have also been praised for doing less than what every other clubs midfielders do.

Not allowed to talk about Bruhn in this way on this board