Autopsy Cats lose to Port by 6 points after being down by 10 goals

[BORIS332]

Butters 34 disposals
Wines 33
Drew 27
Horne-Francis 26
-VS-
Holmes 21
Atkins 16
Parfitt 13
Clark 11

Port Adelaide 120
-VS-
Geelong 61

So by sheer weight of possessions Geelong's midfield were smashed.
Geelong's mids laid more tackles but it's pretty obvious Port's mids were getting first to the ball and our mids were chasing.

Geelong midfield doesn't necessarily have to match the opponent's midfield in disposals but it needs to do a hell of a lot better than it did against Port.

That’s not telling the whole story. We also had Blicavs, Cuthrie and Mullin in there.

 

[BORIS332]

Jack Henry as a forward is not the answer. Rohan is a much better option. He's quick and a great set shot. JH is a good honest medium defender but is one paced and has lost a yard or two over the years. If we don't care about winning the game, sure, give him a run in the forward line.

He’s 25, how has he lost a yard of pace?

 

[calder_daddy]

Gee doesn't Jack Henry look like he's running in mud at the moment. Far cry from the player who was the catalyst for Jordan Clark's winning goal against the Hawks on Easter Monday in 2021

I said it last week and it was noticeable again on the weekend
He was a little better his playing in skates compared to others in footy boots

 

[Lana]

Mitch Duncan is one of 4. That's right. 4. Cats that are averaging above 20 touches per game.
He is absolutely zero % chance of being dropped.

He is on fumes and accumulating the pill more times than the so called great young mids we have coming through in Bruhn, Clark and Parfitt (who gets lauded for some bizarre reason). And before we have the lot ToG% BS come out again McKercher is in year 1 and is over 80% of minutes and got his first 30 touch game today.

This idea that Duncan is close to getting dropped, or he should be is nonsense. He may be waning and he may be in his last year for all we know but some here need to get real. Our mids are woeful, we aren't going to retire someone who is accumulating the pill, albeit off halfback/wing.

He is however averaging 3.5 CP a game, even for an outside player that is really low

 

[BORIS332]

He is however averaging 3.5 CP a game, even for an outside player that is really low

Duncan looks like he’s really struggled when the heat is on the game, then he comes into it when the game opens up. He only had 7 disposals in the first half against Port, 14 in the second half.

It’s worth mentioning also that 4 of his 21 disposals for the night came from kick ins.

 

[Warhorse]

Understand I do.
I just don't agree with or buy the reasoning being given on here for it. Think it's a load of pish tbh.

Let's look at when it worked. 2022.

Guthrie - 25 from 70%
Duncan - 23 from 84% (HBF)
Dangerfield - 22 from 75%
Selwood - 21 from 72%
Tuohy - 21 from 87% (HBF/Wing)
Smith - 21 from 84% (wing)
Parfitt - 20 from 64%
Atkins - 18 from 76%
Blicavs - 17 from 85% (also back up ruck).

Left out Stewart as he's a defender, and is a constant.

Holmes - 24 from 83% (HBF)
Miers - 22 from 85% (HFF)
Duncan - 21 from 80%
Dangerfield - 21 from 69% (subbed off twice).
Bruhn - 19 from 60% (affected by being subbed off once).
Blicavs - 14 from 80% (back up ruck)
Parfitt - 19 from 66%
Bowes - 18 from 63%
Atkins - 15 from 62%
Tuohy - 16 from 80%

Not only does that on the surface look remarkably worse than what worked in 2022 so do other midfield metrics.
But on the above all bar Parfitt were 70% or above among mids. In 2024 none of them are above 70% although Danger would be without being subbed twice.

Clearance differential 6th (+1.4) in 2022 v 17th (-4.9) in 2024. Centre gone from 2nd to 11th and stoppage gone from 9th to 18th
Contested possession diff 4th (+7.4) v 16th (-5.5) in 2024
inside 50 diff 1st (+12.8) in 2022 v 9th (+0.1) in 2024



There is no excuse for the bolded not being able to play 75-85% of minutes and achieving what seemingly 2-3 at every other club can. We aren't some visionaries bucking the trend because they're all wrong and we've stumbled across the formula to success. We spread the load going for bursts of play for a larger group because we by and large have a group that is below standard.

And we saw on Friday night what elite midfield players look like. JHF, Butters and Wines did it with ease, and made our guys look absolutely stupid.


Then what are we arguing about. That is what I was saying.

I mentioned 3 midfielders and he was one of them, and was a part of a more broader point that Duncan on his last legs still gets the ball more than our midfielders, who are all much younger. Brandon included. And in doing so I referenced that he is lauded here, despite having regressed from 2022 yet Duncan who is outperforming him has had calls for being dropped. It makes no sense at all.

If you want I could also mention that Bowes, Bruhn and Clark have also been praised for doing less than what every other clubs midfielders do.

Butters 34 disposals
Wines 33
Drew 27
Horne-Francis 26
-VS-
Holmes 21
Atkins 16
Parfitt 13
Clark 11

Port Adelaide 120
-VS-
Geelong 61

So by sheer weight of possessions Geelong's midfield were smashed.
Geelong's mids laid more tackles but it's pretty obvious Port's mids were getting first to the ball and our mids were chasing.

Geelong midfield doesn't necessarily have to match the opponent's midfield in disposals but it needs to do a hell of a lot better than it did against Port.

Yeah but if you extrapolate out to 100% game time for each midfielder we are equal with them and all would average over 20 touches a game

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I am talking about Duncan. And that apparently he should be out next Thursday.
Parfitt is just 1 of the 4-5 mids we have that Duncan on fumes can seemingly outperform.

Do you really believe Chris Scott is about to drop Duncan? I certainly don't even think it'd have crossed his mind let alone discussed at MC.

He will be out next thursday because hes not the right fit for the darwin heat. Im not sure what you are getting upset about.

 

[feelinfeline]

I am talking about Duncan. And that apparently he should be out next Thursday.
Parfitt is just 1 of the 4-5 mids we have that Duncan on fumes can seemingly outperform.

Do you really believe Chris Scott is about to drop Duncan? I certainly don't even think it'd have crossed his mind let alone discussed at MC.

Duncan’s ability to hit a target has declined markedly. He has always had the odd bad game but both his decision making and kicking have declined. He has obviously been elite in this area for most of his career.

This is from the naked eye. I have no stats to back this up, and I’ve got better things to do than try and find them.

This is inevitable for a player near the end of his career. He still knows how to get the ball but he is less reliable when he gets it.

He is still clearly best 22 at this stage, and I doubt the MC would drop him unless he has a series of shockers, which he hasn’t yet. Even then perhaps not.

 

[AWOL]

That hasn't been the rule for ten years I recon.

Besides, the ball went quickly to a contest at the top of the square. About as good an advantage as you get

The first whistle came just prior to Clark kicking it, but after he had decided to play on. There is no way the (incorrect) call was made based on the quality of kick, nor should it be. In some cases a scrambled kick forward is more dangerous than a predictably good one.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Jack Henry as a forward is not the answer. Rohan is a much better option. He's quick and a great set shot. JH is a good honest medium defender but is one paced and has lost a yard or two over the years. If we don't care about winning the game, sure, give him a run in the forward line.

Over the years? Mate he’s 25

 

[sexyhunk]

the real question is what happens in terms of rest of year if neale has a strong game and cats win a tough road trip to darwin this week? probably nothing major will happen but should it?

 

[iameviljez]

the real question is what happens in terms of rest of year if neale has a strong game and cats win a tough road trip to darwin this week? probably nothing major will happen but should it?

Look, if Neale happens to kick five, then I suspect what happens is that we play with three tall forwards for a few weeks after Cameron and Hawkins get back, and then a choice is made as to which two to go with.

File that under "would be a nice problem to have".

 

[standupand]

Interesting clip. Scotty saying what a few said after the Carlton game. Strange CE thought otherwise. It is an umpiring issue

I don't agree with Scott on that one.

If umpires blow the whistle earlier there will be way too many stoppages.

I think the way forward is something like requiring a tackler to have an intent for the ball, ie to win possession or strip the player of the ball not to just to hold on to the player like what Kolo did in that instance.

Just like in a marking contest, a tackle that merely holds a player without any intent to win or play the ball (including dumping and slinging) should be penalised.

The game is best when it rewards open play as much as possible.

 

[Warhorse]

Just like in a marking contest, a tackle that merely holds a player without any intent to win or play the ball (including dumping and slinging) should be penalised.

What?

 

[Catman]

He’s 25, how has he lost a yard of pace?

I don't know about him losing a yard, but it's the repeated foot issues that concern me. Who knows, maybe he's battling with something right now?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I don't agree with Scott on that one.

If umpires blow the whistle earlier there will be way too many stoppages.

I think the way forward is something like requiring a tackler to have an intent for the ball, ie to win possession or strip the player of the ball not to just to hold on to the player like what Kolo did in that instance.

Just like in a marking contest, a tackle that merely holds a player without any intent to win or play the ball (including dumping and slinging) should be penalised.

The game is best when it rewards open play as much as possible.

The best way to reward open play is to allow players to be tackled to the ground so the ball spills out.

 

[CHAWKTS]

Look, if Neale happens to kick five, then I suspect what happens is that we play with three tall forwards for a few weeks after Cameron and Hawkins get back, and then a choice is made as to which two to go with.

File that under "would be a nice problem to have".

He couldnt have done much more against North and hasn’t played since. Whilst CS has said “there is no reason why we couldn’t play the 3 talls” he also said “that doesn’t mean it is the right thing to do” so as always I don’t know what CS actually thinks about the idea.

But with Rohan back in the forward line I can’t imagine playing Hawk, Jezza, Neale, Rohan and Henry all at once. Would have to sacrifice a MF/Wing to fit them all in. Jezza would need to play whole game as wing.

If Neale does play out of his skin maybe they rest Henry the following week to give him a couple of games to see? Maybe

 

[standupand]

What?

I'm just saying I think there has to be some evolution in the way the game is umpired around tackling and it should reward an intent for the ball and open play rather than stoppages.

 

[iameviljez]

Stanley should never play another game for the club.

Don't mean to be harsh, but he's beyond cooked. He's a liability. He doesn't win hit outs, he loses his man at contests, he's not fit enough to run out games, he does nothing around the ground. He's just nothing. He's old and he won't be there next year. Put him out to pasture now. Play Conway. If he can't play every week or play out games, then use Blicavs in the ruck.

I think that the second-quarter substitution was the final realisation of exactly that conclusion, to be honest. With Conway injured, it's hard to tell what the decision may have otherwise been.

What really stands out to me re: Stanley is that he has lost what used to really be his competitive advantage against other ruckmen - his ability to take up-the-line contested marks on the wing and half-back, and his ability to win clearances below his feet.

It is now, IMO, at the point where I would rather play Blicavs, concede the hitouts, and have an extra running player.

 

[iameviljez]

I think the way forward is something like requiring a tackler to have an intent for the ball, ie to win possession or strip the player of the ball not to just to hold on to the player like what Kolo did in that instance.

Just like in a marking contest, a tackle that merely holds a player without any intent to win or play the ball (including dumping and slinging) should be penalised.

But if a player has the ball, and you go to tackle, I don't know how you could really measure "intent to win the ball".

 

[iameviljez]

I can’t imagine playing Hawk, Jezza, Neale, Rohan and Henry all at once. Would have to sacrifice a MF/Wing to fit them all in. Jezza would need to play whole game as wing.

Yes, or one of them (possibly even two) misses out.

 

[Lana]

I don't agree with Scott on that one.

If umpires blow the whistle earlier there will be way too many stoppages.

I think the way forward is something like requiring a tackler to have an intent for the ball, ie to win possession or strip the player of the ball not to just to hold on to the player like what Kolo did in that instance.

Just like in a marking contest, a tackle that merely holds a player without any intent to win or play the ball (including dumping and slinging) should be penalised.

The game is best when it rewards open play as much as possible.

I'd lower the threshold for prior opportunity. Pay more free kicks(historically the free kick count per game is way lower now then it was in the past they've about halved in 40 years), clubs that overcommit too many players to the contest, will get cut over the top by teams that hold width, which would free up ball movement.

 

[standupand]

But if a player has the ball, and you go to tackle, I don't know how you could really measure "intent to win the ball".

I guess it works the other way where players had to show an intent to get rid of the ball when tackled.

 

[standupand]

I'd lower the threshold for prior opportunity. Pay more free kicks(historically the free kick count per game is way lower now then it was in the past they've about halved in 40 years), clubs that overcommit too many players to the contest, will get cut over the top by teams that hold width, which would free up ball movement.

The rules have got to support the ball player though which is my worry about that direction.

 

[Lana]

The rules have got to support the ball player though which is my worry about that direction.

Right now players pick up the ball move an bit get tackle drop the ball to the ground and they call play on. Players when brought to ground get mobbed and just throw/drop the ball without attempting a handball/kick.

I'd interpret as if you receive the ball with momentum and take two steps and then are tackled, you have to legally dispose of the ball. If it gets knocked out too bad.

If the player with the ball has no momentum and is tackled then call a ball up after 2 seconds (gives them a moment to either break the tackle or dispose of it), would remove all 2nd action dangerous tackles from the game.

If a player is lying flat on the ground has possession of the ball and are tackled then blow the whistle immediately. if they dived on it then pay holding the ball.

Don't wait for them to flail, 99/100 the player just drops the ball without properly disposing of the ball anyway.

Would greatly simplify the interpretations of the rule. Taking intent out of the equation should be the aim