CEY

[Golumless]

Exceeded expectations.

Oh how nice he'd be with a couple more yards of pace.

Or a better football brain, or more damaging skills etc.

He's really just a big body, and has found his way into being very solid depth/good role player option.

 

[Big Crow]

The depth is looking so strong.
I like Poholke as well, has time to develop to replace Betts or Douglas
Forgot about Fogarty.
If he builds his tank then it going to be difficult for both Cey and greenwood.
Top 4 side with 3 picks in top 20.
Depth is going to be strong to 30-35 deep.

I wouldn't mind seeing us trade aggressively to upgrade those picks.

Depth is great, what we really need is genuine top drawer quality.

 

[Shaz2012]

I wouldn't mind seeing us trade aggressively to upgrade those picks.

Depth is great, what we really need is genuine top drawer quality.

Having high draft picks doesn’t guarantee us getting top draw quality. We need to keep a balance. Right now we are not writing off our season because we have good depth. If by some long shot chance we win the flag this season then we will have to look back on it and thank our depth for keeping us in it up to round 6.

 

[Big Crow]

Having high draft picks doesn’t guarantee us getting top draw quality. We need to keep a balance. Right now we are not writing off our season because we have good depth. If by some long shot chance we win the flag this season then we will have to look back on it and thank our depth for keeping us in it up to round 6.

Yes agreed. I should clarify; I meant to say that our depth is already great. The place I see us making the biggest gains on field is possibly sacrificing a little depth for more top end talent, if it is possible to do so by any means.

As I see it the game is moving in two directions. The first is a more contested, competitive style requiring a more aggressive physical approach from players - requiring depth. At the same time, individual standout players seem to have never have a greater impact on games - requiring standout quality. These two directions are seemingly at odds, it's an interesting problem.

 

[Golumless]

Given he's only played 20 games and is returning from a serious knee injury, CEY's posting some pretty impressive stats. He is currently:

- averaging 21.5 disposals a game at 73% efficiency (of the midfielders, only Crouch has better, with 75%).
- of our midfielders, has less clangers than Gibbs and Greenwood.
- is 6th for turnovers but behind Laird, Seedsman, Gibbs, Briwn and Atkins. And drops to 8th on average per game (Lynch, Sloane and Douglas have more).
- 2nd in tackles at the club (to Greenwood).
- has taken as many contested marks as Gov and Doedee.
- is 9th at the club for metres gained and 11th for score involvements.
- has kicked 4 goals (equal 8th at club)

- 23rd overall in competition for Contested Posessions.
- 24th overall in Clearances.
- 5th overall in Centre Clearances.
- 19th overall for Tackles.

His performances - bar the Collingwood game in which nearly everyone was awful - have been far better than you'd expect from a mere depth player. If he stays fit, and maintains his form, it will be damn hard to dislodge him from the side.

Some of that is impressive, some of that is expected and one stat is concerning. For the main part I'll be comparing him with Greenwood, seeing both of them are fighting for that last spot in our midfield as neither are difficult to dislodge.

Considering the position in our rotation and seeing he's a pure inside midfielder, 21.5 disposals is just passable (impressive would be >25 disposals). What is concerning is when Crouch went down he only hit an average of 18.7 disposals, which indicates he didn't handle the increase of responsibility well (seeing CEY would have had to shoulder a large part of the load with Crouch down and him being the most logical replacement). However what is really good is 11.50 of those disposals are contested (problem is Greenwood is at 12.67). Disposal efficiency is a garbage stat, due to some of the weird things it considers a successful disposal (+40m kick to a contest springs to mind).

Less clangers then Gibbs and Greenwood. That's not surprising with Gibbs seeing he is on average touching the ball 7 more times a game then CEY and seeing his disposal skill, would have the licence to take more risks (and even then, 2.8 to 3.3 isn't something to write home about). Greenwood however is notable seeing they're both comparable in terms of role, disposals etc. This is a tick to CEY.

The turnover stat is concerning. Outside of Brown, everyone who is higher then CEY should be higher then CEY (either they have the licence to take risks, a victim of serious leather poisoning or both). What's worrying is he is averaging 4 turnovers for 21.5 disposals for someone who should always be taking the safe options (and Greenwood is close to half of that, despite having more contested disposals). That's horrible for his long term prospects.

Tackle numbers is in a good place for the role, seeing 5.3 would be on the higher end for an inside midfielder (majority of tackles occur in congestion). Mind you what's concerning for CEY is Greenwood is doing more in this regard, but still he's doing his job here. Similar to that, he's giving good numbers in intercepts but Greenwood is ahead in this regard.

Contested marks is a weird one, and feels weirdly assigned on a glanced. Again the concern here is Greenwood is out performing him here again, but really that's what 5 contested marks to 4 which is firmly in the *shrugs* category.

CEY is 14th for average meters per gained, which is firmly in the meh category but really this is a bonus as meters gained from this type of player is due to a death by a thousand cuts approach. He is however averaging 100 meters more then Greenwood which is good for his long term prospects. In terms of clearances (a key part of both of their roles), CEY is at 4.8 per game (and 0.8 ahead of Greenwood), which is passable to good for an inside midfielder (29th in average clearances isn't something to write home about seeing most sides would only have 2-4 players that'd hit high clearances).

Score involvements is 4.5 which is good as well, as well as 4 goals so far seeing if he can consistently get on the scoreboard is what will end up giving him that spot. This is definitely ahead of Greenwood and a big tick for CEY

Really, the general gist of CEY prospects of retaining his spot isn't that great currently. He's providing more offensively then Greenwood currently, but Greenwood is providing more defensively. Considering the player who will take this spot is an midfielder has a strong offensive game in Brad Crouch, the spot is most likely going to the most defensively competent player which puts Greenwood ahead before factoring in Greenwood tools wise is much better for balance. For CEY to get this spot, he has to have daylight between him and Greenwood and that currently isn't there.

 

[Shaz2012]

Some of that is impressive, some of that is expected and one stat is concerning. For the main part I'll be comparing him with Greenwood, seeing both of them are fighting for that last spot in our midfield as neither are difficult to dislodge.

Considering the position in our rotation and seeing he's a pure inside midfielder, 21.5 disposals is just passable (impressive would be >25 disposals). What is concerning is when Crouch went down he only hit an average of 18.7 disposals, which indicates he didn't handle the increase of responsibility well (seeing CEY would have had to shoulder a large part of the load with Crouch down and him being the most logical replacement). However what is really good is 11.50 of those disposals are contested (problem is Greenwood is at 12.67). Disposal efficiency is a garbage stat, due to some of the weird things it considers a successful disposal (+40m kick to a contest springs to mind).

Less clangers then Gibbs and Greenwood. That's not surprising with Gibbs seeing he is on average touching the ball 7 more times a game then CEY and seeing his disposal skill, would have the licence to take more risks (and even then, 2.8 to 3.3 isn't something to write home about). Greenwood however is notable seeing they're both comparable in terms of role, disposals etc. This is a tick to CEY.

The turnover stat is concerning. Outside of Brown, everyone who is higher then CEY should be higher then CEY (either they have the licence to take risks, a victim of serious leather poisoning or both). What's worrying is he is averaging 4 turnovers for 21.5 disposals for someone who should always be taking the safe options (and Greenwood is close to half of that, despite having more contested disposals). That's horrible for his long term prospects.

Tackle numbers is in a good place for the role, seeing 5.3 would be on the higher end for an inside midfielder (majority of tackles occur in congestion). Mind you what's concerning for CEY is Greenwood is doing more in this regard, but still he's doing his job here. Similar to that, he's giving good numbers in intercepts but Greenwood is ahead in this regard.

Contested marks is a weird one, and feels weirdly assigned on a glanced. Again the concern here is Greenwood is out performing him here again, but really that's what 5 contested marks to 4 which is firmly in the *shrugs* category.

CEY is 14th for average meters per gained, which is firmly in the meh category but really this is a bonus as meters gained from this type of player is due to a death by a thousand cuts approach. He is however averaging 100 meters more then Greenwood which is good for his long term prospects. In terms of clearances (a key part of both of their roles), CEY is at 4.8 per game (and 0.8 ahead of Greenwood), which is passable to good for an inside midfielder (29th in average clearances isn't something to write home about seeing most sides would only have 2-4 players that'd hit high clearances).

Score involvements is 4.5 which is good as well, as well as 4 goals so far seeing if he can consistently get on the scoreboard is what will end up giving him that spot. This is definitely ahead of Greenwood and a big tick for CEY

Really, the general gist of CEY prospects of retaining his spot isn't that great currently. He's providing more offensively then Greenwood currently, but Greenwood is providing more defensively. Considering the player who will take this spot is an midfielder has a strong offensive game in Brad Crouch, the spot is most likely going to the most defensively competent player which puts Greenwood ahead before factoring in Greenwood tools wise is much better for balance. For CEY to get this spot, he has to have daylight between him and Greenwood and that currently isn't there.

How do these two compare with Douglas and why is Douglas safe from the chop, yet one of these two are not?

 

[Golumless]

How do these two compare with Douglas and why is Douglas safe from the chop, yet one of these two are not?

Douglas isn't a pure inside midfielder and therefore isn't in competition with either of them for that spot.

He has others to keep at bay, namely Knight/Murphy/Poholke, but he is pretty safe currently.

 

[ShadeyP]

He's had 7 seasons on our list, which means it's very much well known his ceiling is either the last midfielder in our rotation, or purely depth. You don't need someone to play AFL to understand what their ceiling is, looking at their tools and what they offer is purely enough.

He's played himself into surviving until Brouch is fit then it's back to the SANFL for him.

That is such a broad brush pile of s..t .

 

[ShadeyP]

Douglas isn't a pure inside midfielder and therefore isn't in competition with either of them for that spot.

He has others to keep at bay, namely Knight/Murphy/Poholke, but he is pretty safe currently.

Nice contradiction there .

 

[Shaz2012]

Douglas isn't a pure inside midfielder and therefore isn't in competition with either of them for that spot.

He has others to keep at bay, namely Knight/Murphy/Poholke, but he is pretty safe currently.

He was playing that role when Crouch was out. I am not really clear what his specific role is. If I were to try to describe it I would call it the Douglas role. When he is on, very valuable. But can go missing completely. I think his role in the team would be eliminated if he wasn’t on our list and we didn’t bat so deep in the midfield. He wouldn’t want to go missing too many more times.

 

[kulak]

If the Richmond and Gold Coast games become the norm, CEY isn’t going anywhere, and he will help us win more games.

If he plays like that 1 in 2, when (if?) players come back he will be competing against Greenwood for a spot, and Greenwood will have the edge as he will bring a better defensive balance.

However I am optimistic the good games will become more common. Just back from injury etc. When you have someone who can dominate the contest, they play.

We have seen what he can do. It’s up to him to bring that game every week.

 

[kulak]

I quite like that CEY will draw a tackler or two before giving he ball off at times.

It creates space for our other midfielders.

He might get caught on occasion but for the most part he is well equipped to keep his arms clear.

 

[Vhaluus]

He was playing that role when Crouch was out. I am not really clear what his specific role is. If I were to try to describe it I would call it the Douglas role. When he is on, very valuable. But can go missing completely. I think his role in the team would be eliminated if he wasn’t on our list and we didn’t bat so deep in the midfield. He wouldn’t want to go missing too many more times.

We should keep trying Douglas as a tagger after the job he did vs Sydney.

I want to see if it's a one off or if he can keep doing that to quality midfielders.

 

[Bovo]

Some of that is impressive, some of that is expected and one stat is concerning. For the main part I'll be comparing him with Greenwood, seeing both of them are fighting for that last spot in our midfield as neither are difficult to dislodge.

Considering the position in our rotation and seeing he's a pure inside midfielder, 21.5 disposals is just passable (impressive would be >25 disposals). What is concerning is when Crouch went down he only hit an average of 18.7 disposals, which indicates he didn't handle the increase of responsibility well (seeing CEY would have had to shoulder a large part of the load with Crouch down and him being the most logical replacement). However what is really good is 11.50 of those disposals are contested (problem is Greenwood is at 12.67). Disposal efficiency is a garbage stat, due to some of the weird things it considers a successful disposal (+40m kick to a contest springs to mind).

Less clangers then Gibbs and Greenwood. That's not surprising with Gibbs seeing he is on average touching the ball 7 more times a game then CEY and seeing his disposal skill, would have the licence to take more risks (and even then, 2.8 to 3.3 isn't something to write home about). Greenwood however is notable seeing they're both comparable in terms of role, disposals etc. This is a tick to CEY.

The turnover stat is concerning. Outside of Brown, everyone who is higher then CEY should be higher then CEY (either they have the licence to take risks, a victim of serious leather poisoning or both). What's worrying is he is averaging 4 turnovers for 21.5 disposals for someone who should always be taking the safe options (and Greenwood is close to half of that, despite having more contested disposals). That's horrible for his long term prospects.

Tackle numbers is in a good place for the role, seeing 5.3 would be on the higher end for an inside midfielder (majority of tackles occur in congestion). Mind you what's concerning for CEY is Greenwood is doing more in this regard, but still he's doing his job here. Similar to that, he's giving good numbers in intercepts but Greenwood is ahead in this regard.

Contested marks is a weird one, and feels weirdly assigned on a glanced. Again the concern here is Greenwood is out performing him here again, but really that's what 5 contested marks to 4 which is firmly in the *shrugs* category.

CEY is 14th for average meters per gained, which is firmly in the meh category but really this is a bonus as meters gained from this type of player is due to a death by a thousand cuts approach. He is however averaging 100 meters more then Greenwood which is good for his long term prospects. In terms of clearances (a key part of both of their roles), CEY is at 4.8 per game (and 0.8 ahead of Greenwood), which is passable to good for an inside midfielder (29th in average clearances isn't something to write home about seeing most sides would only have 2-4 players that'd hit high clearances).

Score involvements is 4.5 which is good as well, as well as 4 goals so far seeing if he can consistently get on the scoreboard is what will end up giving him that spot. This is definitely ahead of Greenwood and a big tick for CEY

Really, the general gist of CEY prospects of retaining his spot isn't that great currently. He's providing more offensively then Greenwood currently, but Greenwood is providing more defensively. Considering the player who will take this spot is an midfielder has a strong offensive game in Brad Crouch, the spot is most likely going to the most defensively competent player which puts Greenwood ahead before factoring in Greenwood tools wise is much better for balance. For CEY to get this spot, he has to have daylight between him and Greenwood and that currently isn't there.

So that is it? CEY is only a depth player and that is packed, sealed and delivered?

I remember when Scott Stevens was that “depth” player. It is amazing what experience on the big field can do. For various reasons CEY has been either overlooked (because there was someone better) or he was injured. Right now he has an opportunity to improve and challenge for a spot. You and I don’t know if he will take another major step forward or if he has hit his ceiling. Each game I watch, he is starting to look more comfortable.....which means he is at least in the box seat to give it a crack.

You could well be right, but I think you have gone too early to put CEY in a box that is marked as depth only. He should have a few more weeks to continue to show us what he can do.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Having high draft picks doesn’t guarantee us getting top draw quality. We need to keep a balance. Right now we are not writing off our season because we have good depth. If by some long shot chance we win the flag this season then we will have to look back on it and thank our depth for keeping us in it up to round 6.

Good point.

Compare us to Sydney last year..

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Nice contradiction there .

Not really, as Douglas is flexible to play as an inside & outside midfielder, small forward & defender.

CEY is mainly an inside midfielder.

Their positional capabilities are different.

 

[mistylake]

Yes agreed. I should clarify; I meant to say that our depth is already great. The place I see us making the biggest gains on field is possibly sacrificing a little depth for more top end talent, if it is possible to do so by any means.

As I see it the game is moving in two directions. The first is a more contested, competitive style requiring a more aggressive physical approach from players - requiring depth. At the same time, individual standout players seem to have never have a greater impact on games - requiring standout quality. These two directions are seemingly at odds, it's an interesting problem.

Id rather 2 A graders over 1 elite. It gives a more balanced team. Extreme example but Carlton have Cripps who is a clear standout then he kicks to a team mate and watches the ball come whizzing back over his head.

I know we only played Gold Coast but we looked so balanced in the first half, when we get the whole band back together I’m pretty confident.
I know this is droll but deleting a few dumb users is going to be the hard call we need. Mackay has annoyingly poor vision.
CEY a little ordinary by foot. Jake and Laird need to keep it simple. Hartigan even more so.
Weak links balance wise Atkins and JJ need to be constantly challenged Re: put you body on the line. Their disposal is generally OK.

Any weak link is going to be exploited so we need to have a whole team petting in with a decent level of skill speed etc.

 

[Big Crow]

Id rather 2 A graders over 1 elite. It gives a more balanced team. Extreme example but Carlton have Cripps who is a clear standout then he kicks to a team mate and watches the ball come whizzing back over his head.

I know we only played Gold Coast but we looked so balanced in the first half, when we get the whole band back together I’m pretty confident.
I know this is droll but deleting a few dumb users is going to be the hard call we need. Mackay has annoyingly poor vision.
CEY a little ordinary by foot. Jake and Laird need to keep it simple. Hartigan even more so.
Weak links balance wise Atkins and JJ need to be constantly challenged Re: put you body on the line. Their disposal is generally OK.

Any weak link is going to be exploited so we need to have a whole team petting in with a decent level of skill speed etc.

Yes, paricularly with regards to ball use. Players who make poor decisions and/or execute poorly by hand or foot should be on notice nearly as much as those who fail to put their body on the line. The latter just grates a lot more with me.

Re: 2 A graders vs 1 elite, I suppose it depends on who the individuals are and hard to go wrong either way, but philosophically I’d just about choose the 1 elite in our present side. Gibbs stands out as true polished quality that we’ve not seen since McLeod. Maybe it’s the novelty, but I want more of that.

 

[BRL121]

So that is it? CEY is only a depth player and that is packed, sealed and delivered?

I remember when Scott Stevens was that “depth” player. It is amazing what experience on the big field can do. For various reasons CEY has been either overlooked (because there was someone better) or he was injured. Right now he has an opportunity to improve and challenge for a spot. You and I don’t know if he will take another major step forward or if he has hit his ceiling. Each game I watch, he is starting to look more comfortable.....which means he is at least in the box seat to give it a crack.

You could well be right, but I think you have gone too early to put CEY in a box that is marked as depth only. He should have a few more weeks to continue to show us what he can do.

Agreed. Many seem to have an absolutist view of their "best 22", immutable. I don't. CEY is in the team now, playing well. While this continues, he will not be dropped, and a new "reality" will be established. BC will be struggling to make an impact this year.

While the absolutists may well be right, CEY will only be dropped when BC comes in if he starts playing badly on a consistent basis.

 

[Vader]

Don't tell Vader

Why? CEY is a great "Moneyball" player. He's just not in our best 22 once Sloane & Brad Crouch return. He's doing a great job of holding down the fort though, until the classier players are ready to return. That's what good depth players do, and he's doing it very nicely indeed.

 

[Apsaalooke]

Some of that is impressive, some of that is expected and one stat is concerning. For the main part I'll be comparing him with Greenwood, seeing both of them are fighting for that last spot in our midfield as neither are difficult to dislodge.

Considering the position in our rotation and seeing he's a pure inside midfielder, 21.5 disposals is just passable (impressive would be >25 disposals). What is concerning is when Crouch went down he only hit an average of 18.7 disposals, which indicates he didn't handle the increase of responsibility well (seeing CEY would have had to shoulder a large part of the load with Crouch down and him being the most logical replacement). However what is really good is 11.50 of those disposals are contested (problem is Greenwood is at 12.67). Disposal efficiency is a garbage stat, due to some of the weird things it considers a successful disposal (+40m kick to a contest springs to mind).

Less clangers then Gibbs and Greenwood. That's not surprising with Gibbs seeing he is on average touching the ball 7 more times a game then CEY and seeing his disposal skill, would have the licence to take more risks (and even then, 2.8 to 3.3 isn't something to write home about). Greenwood however is notable seeing they're both comparable in terms of role, disposals etc. This is a tick to CEY.

The turnover stat is concerning. Outside of Brown, everyone who is higher then CEY should be higher then CEY (either they have the licence to take risks, a victim of serious leather poisoning or both). What's worrying is he is averaging 4 turnovers for 21.5 disposals for someone who should always be taking the safe options (and Greenwood is close to half of that, despite having more contested disposals). That's horrible for his long term prospects.

Tackle numbers is in a good place for the role, seeing 5.3 would be on the higher end for an inside midfielder (majority of tackles occur in congestion). Mind you what's concerning for CEY is Greenwood is doing more in this regard, but still he's doing his job here. Similar to that, he's giving good numbers in intercepts but Greenwood is ahead in this regard.

Contested marks is a weird one, and feels weirdly assigned on a glanced. Again the concern here is Greenwood is out performing him here again, but really that's what 5 contested marks to 4 which is firmly in the *shrugs* category.

CEY is 14th for average meters per gained, which is firmly in the meh category but really this is a bonus as meters gained from this type of player is due to a death by a thousand cuts approach. He is however averaging 100 meters more then Greenwood which is good for his long term prospects. In terms of clearances (a key part of both of their roles), CEY is at 4.8 per game (and 0.8 ahead of Greenwood), which is passable to good for an inside midfielder (29th in average clearances isn't something to write home about seeing most sides would only have 2-4 players that'd hit high clearances).

Score involvements is 4.5 which is good as well, as well as 4 goals so far seeing if he can consistently get on the scoreboard is what will end up giving him that spot. This is definitely ahead of Greenwood and a big tick for CEY

Really, the general gist of CEY prospects of retaining his spot isn't that great currently. He's providing more offensively then Greenwood currently, but Greenwood is providing more defensively. Considering the player who will take this spot is an midfielder has a strong offensive game in Brad Crouch, the spot is most likely going to the most defensively competent player which puts Greenwood ahead before factoring in Greenwood tools wise is much better for balance. For CEY to get this spot, he has to have daylight between him and Greenwood and that currently isn't there.

Not sure thats its a recorded stat, but recall the club saying Greenwood was easily our best handball interceptor at a stoppage. This stops the ball getting out and gives us a 2nd chance at a clearance, which is invaluable. When you look closely, you can see him instinctively doing this inside the pack.

 

[Paladin]

Why? CEY is a great "Moneyball" player. He's just not in our best 22 once Sloane & Brad Crouch return. He's doing a great job of holding down the fort though, until the classier players are ready to return. That's what good depth players do, and he's doing it very nicely indeed.

You did tell us how stupid the club was for not delisting him, that he had a charity spot and that CEY was sanfl standard and not capable of playing good afl football. Among many other insults. So you were very wrong.

 

[ShadeyP]

Not really, as Douglas is flexible to play as an inside & outside midfielder, small forward & defender.

CEY is mainly an inside midfielder.

Their positional capabilities are different.

Read it again and properly .

 

[Vader]

CEY was a beast in the clearances and contested possessions, but neither of the coaches rated him as one of the top-5 players on the ground. After 6 rounds, CEY still hasn't picked up a single AFLCA vote. 12 Adelaide players have played every game this year, only 2 of them have failed to poll a single AFLCA vote - CEY & McGovern.

 

[Bicks]

Why? CEY is a great "Moneyball" player. He's just not in our best 22 once Sloane & Brad Crouch return. He's doing a great job of holding down the fort though, until the classier players are ready to return. That's what good depth players do, and he's doing it very nicely indeed.

My recollection is you had him firmly in the delist column?